Page 11 | How to cope with an almost sexless marriage? Can counselling really help?

LosingIt2022 · 2022-12-31T06:16:38+00:00

Hoping this is the most appropriate subforum. I'm looking for some advice because the lack of sex life is putting a huge strain on our relationship. I want to propose some form of couples therapy / counselling because this is the only way I can think of to make her understand how important this is to me; I do not expect miracles but I do not want to leave any stones unturned. If nothing changes, I would at least like to understand if there are some coping strategies to help me not lose my sanity - I am banging my head against the wall while dying inside and she doesn't seem to take notice. What are your experiences? Is there really a solution for couples whose sex drives change so much over time? The story: I'm male, my wife and I are both mid 30s, we have 2 kids. I have always had a higher sex drive but, while mine has remained constant, hers has been constantly plummeting. It used to be about once a week, I imagined it would have become less frequent, but I never imagined once every 2-3 months. When it happens, she gets really lost in the moment, which is amazing, but it has simply moved at the very bottom of her priority list: it will only happen if she's not too tired, if she has already finished her favourite TV series, if that night her best friend doesn't call her to rant about her new life as a divorcee, etc etc. Any attempt at experimenting has been shot down mercilessly: new lingerie makes her feel under pressure, toys are not her thing. I have tried to plan and set some time for ourselves in advance, but she says this makes her feel too much pressure. Any attempt at communicating is very hard because she just does not want to talk about these things; she was brought up in a very conservative, not religious but Jane-Austen-like environment. I asked if she would ever be willing to, well, tease me; there are times when she wants to cuddle and nothing more, is that really that different? Apparently for her yes, she was horrified at the idea. I got really, really cross because a couple of weeks ago she told me in the morning that she would have actually wanted me but I was in the loft, working. Why didn't you call me? So I should just wait in bed for you to finish your TV series, on the off chance that once in a blue moon you might actually want me, but there can be no communication or planning? I have lost count of the number of times I told her how I feel rejected and unimportant, and how I feel less important than a stupid TV series. It just doesn't register, it's as if I were speaking a different language. There are lots of other things in the relationship which work really well, and they are a huge reason why I fancy her so much, but this remains a big problem. I often wonder: had I known it would have ended up like this, would I have married this person and had 2 kids?

Kenny69 · 01/01/2023 11:39

Eleganz · 01/01/2023 09:28

Well, at least the poster has some kind of plan they are trying to execute rather than just being in emotional pain without any coping mechanisms. But yes, pretty bleak, you can feel the pain seeping out of it.

I'll remember that post when the usual MN posts about it being "only sex" are trotted out.

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Thats really depressing that people choose to live like that, that guy should divorce his wife , amicable co-parent and not feel bad about it

Eleganz · 01/01/2023 11:50

Kenny69 · 01/01/2023 11:39

Thats really depressing that people choose to live like that, that guy should divorce his wife , amicable co-parent and not feel bad about it

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He could and he would likely have to move out of his home and have much more limited access to his children as well as a drop in living standards. You can easily understand why men (and some women) hang around until the kids have flown the nest. Doesn't make it any less bleak.

Kenny69 · 01/01/2023 11:58

@Eleganz
im leaving my wife for this reason, will I have to leave my home, yes, will there be a drop in living standards, maybe, but I’m the higher earner.
Do I feel guilty, no, the reality is I would rather be alone than with someone who doesn’t want me, and I ( personally), lots more men should do the same but are scared to for what reason

Eleganz · 01/01/2023 12:12

Kenny69 · 01/01/2023 11:58

@Eleganz
im leaving my wife for this reason, will I have to leave my home, yes, will there be a drop in living standards, maybe, but I’m the higher earner.
Do I feel guilty, no, the reality is I would rather be alone than with someone who doesn’t want me, and I ( personally), lots more men should do the same but are scared to for what reason

Divorce with younger children is shit even if it what you want as was the case for me (and I was also the resident parent). It is a legal dispute and can get very adversarial at times and there is a lot of potential for shitty behaviour before things are finalised. From all accounts me and my ex had a relatively easy divorce compared to others in similar circumstances, but it was highly stressful and there were times where I was really angry at my ex during the process (about what I felt he was doing during the divorce not what else to it), but I've realised that it is just the nature of the process that makes it easy for people to be highly adversarial.

ILoveMyNewThermosFlask · 01/01/2023 13:50

lonelyblonde · 01/01/2023 10:18

I completely get you Op. I am in the same position, but I'm female. DH really isn't bothered by sex, whereas my sex drive is through the roof.

I've read a lot of these threads on MN, and they always go the same way. You will be called angry (of course you're angry), coersive, maybe even a rapist (I'm only on page 4, so not sure whether you've been accused of that yet, but if not, it'll come soon enough). MN seems to be full of women who hate their husband's and who never want any sex, so you'll never get a balanced view. I see you've even been called a Praying Mantis, FGS.

The popular opinion seems to be, that in order to receive some sexual crumbs from your Partner, you must run them a bath with candles, twice a day, every day for a year, do all the cooking, cleaning, bed changing, food shopping and clean the kitchen floor with a toothbrush, cut the grass with nail clippers, go through the wardrobe to Narnia, do seventy laps of the forest, climb Mount Everest in flip flops, commit Hari-Kari with a blunt blade, carve the Sunday chicken with a spoon, punch yourself in the face 10 times, and then maybe, just maybe they will be in the mood for sex - as long as it's the 3rd Tuesday in the month and a full moon. God forbid, that you actually would just like your Partner to look at you and actually see you, as a sexual being and want to jump your bones, just because they can think of nothing else they'd like to do more. God forbid!

The last time we had sex was 28th October. Yes, I know the date, because the sex is so infrequent. It lasted 5 minutes. And the only reason was because we were on holiday, and he doesn't want me to say that we didn't even have holiday sex. Box ticked! No birthday sex for me, no Christmas sex, no New Years sex.

We do talk about it though, and he says all of the right things. But nothing ever changes. According to MN, I shouldn't be angry. Well, tough, because I am VERY angry. He can find time to work full time, play games, see friends, but can't seem to find 5 minutes for a quick shag. And believe me, a 5 minute shag once a week would make me whole.

It's hard, because everything else about our relationship is 10 out of 10. If we could fix this, we'd be Gold.

After all is said and done though, I don't think it has anything to do with housework or the mental load - I do all of that. It's as simple as this : I want and need sex. He doesn't.

It's akin to smoking : my DH smokes. Only about 5 a day, but cannot go a day without those 5 fags. I don't smoke. There is literally nothing he could do, that would make me fancy a cigarette. He could spring clean the house naked, run me a million candelit baths, I am never going to fancy a cigarette, because I don't.

No idea what the answer is. -not helpful--

👏👏👏
Exactly!!

ILoveMyNewThermosFlask · 01/01/2023 13:52

lonelyblonde · 01/01/2023 10:31

He's definitely not getting any elsewhere. He has ED most of the time.

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Has he not seen a doctor about his ED? How old is he?

VahineNuiWentHome · 01/01/2023 13:55

Kenny69 · 01/01/2023 11:58

@Eleganz
im leaving my wife for this reason, will I have to leave my home, yes, will there be a drop in living standards, maybe, but I’m the higher earner.
Do I feel guilty, no, the reality is I would rather be alone than with someone who doesn’t want me, and I ( personally), lots more men should do the same but are scared to for what reason

And that is the exact reason why women should NEVER sacrifice in any shape or form their career.

Because there is no way to say ahead if time if their beloved won’t become the one who says ‘I’m the higher earner so it doesn’t matter TO ME if we get divorced’.

Not saying you shouldn’t get divorced btw.

VahineNuiWentHome · 01/01/2023 13:55

ILoveMyNewThermosFlask · 01/01/2023 13:52

Has he not seen a doctor about his ED? How old is he?

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That.

And then there us viagra etc….

PrincessConstance · 01/01/2023 14:03

VahineNuiWentHome · 01/01/2023 13:55

And that is the exact reason why women should NEVER sacrifice in any shape or form their career.

Because there is no way to say ahead if time if their beloved won’t become the one who says ‘I’m the higher earner so it doesn’t matter TO ME if we get divorced’.

Not saying you shouldn’t get divorced btw.

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However in my case it's the career advancement that has hindered our sex life and intimacy.

ArcticSkewer · 01/01/2023 14:17

ILoveMyNewThermosFlask · 01/01/2023 13:52

Has he not seen a doctor about his ED? How old is he?

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I'm not saying he is having an affair (but you should!) but ED is sometimes a sign. They start to feel more bonded to the affair partner and can't get it up at home. Obviously very irritating!

Kenny69 · 01/01/2023 15:07

VahineNuiWentHome · 01/01/2023 13:55

And that is the exact reason why women should NEVER sacrifice in any shape or form their career.

Because there is no way to say ahead if time if their beloved won’t become the one who says ‘I’m the higher earner so it doesn’t matter TO ME if we get divorced’.

Not saying you shouldn’t get divorced btw.

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We are in a slightly different later life stage, no kids, DW doesn’t want to have sex again ( with me at least), and that’s her choice of course, but my choice is not to stay and be celibate
Im aware that I’ll probably get the smaller slice of the assets and have to give up a portion of my pension, but so be it, as the higher earner I can probably afford to the financial hit.

I have read a lot of the sexless threads on this forum and the advice given generally to women is to leave, and I’m taking that advice & with the change to no fault divorce, I’m prepared to be alone rather than with someone who doesn’t want me.

Ineedtosleep79 · 01/01/2023 15:51

That not wanting to disturb you cos you were working sounds a bit like poor effort to me. Not saying this is definitely what happened but she could have just been stalling for time, not really meaning it i.e "hmm he is busy, now is a good time to deflect and pretend I really wanted to do it". Of course it could be genuine but on the whole I don't think her behaviour is good enough really.

Reminds me a bit of my ex who had ED. If we had a romantic evening planned in but something came up like the opportunity to go for a drive in the country or a meal etc he would happily jump at the chance to do that, then by the time it was over it was too late, too tired for anything else and then he would be like that's a shame but at least we managed to do x,y,z. This is a cycle that went on for ages. Other examples were like I really wanted to get with you but there is a spring sticking out of my mattress, bad knee would start hurting when we were going a hotel, stuff like that 😂. Not sure if it was a product of the ED or the ED is a product of something else....if you know what I mean. Anyway typing it out as brought it home to me. Should have left earlier than I did but at least I know I gave it a good go. Now I'm with someone who can't keep his hands off me and would probably do it on a bed of gravel 😂😍

You deserve better. Not saying to leave if there is a chance it can be saved but you do deserve better.

Ineedtosleep79 · 01/01/2023 16:01

lonelyblonde · 01/01/2023 10:30

I don't remember the exact words, but she said something like she would have wanted to find me in bed but I was working and she didn't want to disturb me

Yeah, that's just bullshit. It's so she can say "But I do want sex, I wanted it last Thursday, but you were too busy" And quelle surprise, the moment has now passed. If she had really wanted it, she would have come to where you were and jumped on you. She didn't. No matter what they say, look at the outcome. Did you have sex that day? No. There you go.

Just shipping this post from someone who has been through exactly the same and come out the other side x

Original poster

LosingIt2022 · 02/01/2023 08:09

ZaphodDent · 01/01/2023 09:52

Is it OK to ask a DW with low libido for "favours"? Or is that completely unacceptable?

How long is a piece of string? I think it is perfectly fine to ask, but not fine to feel entitled to anything. This is hugely subjective. Some people will think "yes, sure, no skin off my nose, if it makes him happy" and others might feel there is little difference between that and full sex, and if they don't want one they don't want the other. My wife is, unfortunately, in the latter camp.

OP posts:

Original poster

LosingIt2022 · 02/01/2023 08:25

@lonelyblonde Thank you for sharing. It is refreshing to hear that some women may be in the same situation and that I am not necessarily some kind of caveman praying mantis rapist etc :)

I'm sorry you have to live like that but I think I also understand the weird feeling of being incredibly frustrated about one aspect (however important) of the relationship while being happy about many others.

At the risk of sounding like captain obvious, have you two ever considered / discussing having other kinds of 'fun'? Eg him using toys on you? An ex asked me for this when I was, well, out of action for a while because of surgery and it was hugely fun for both of us.

OP posts:

gamerchick · 02/01/2023 11:20

LosingIt2022 · 02/01/2023 08:09

How long is a piece of string? I think it is perfectly fine to ask, but not fine to feel entitled to anything. This is hugely subjective. Some people will think "yes, sure, no skin off my nose, if it makes him happy" and others might feel there is little difference between that and full sex, and if they don't want one they don't want the other. My wife is, unfortunately, in the latter camp.

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It's not ok to ask for favours.

Original poster

LosingIt2022 · 02/01/2023 11:35

@gamerchick why on Earth is it not OK to even bring it up and ask? Some persons are definitely OK with it. The fact that YOU don't like it doesn't mean that no one does.
More generally, how is one to know what the partner is / isn't into if there can ne no discussion? Mindreading?

OP posts:

Ineedtosleep79 · 02/01/2023 12:00

LosingIt2022 · 02/01/2023 08:25

@lonelyblonde Thank you for sharing. It is refreshing to hear that some women may be in the same situation and that I am not necessarily some kind of caveman praying mantis rapist etc :)

I'm sorry you have to live like that but I think I also understand the weird feeling of being incredibly frustrated about one aspect (however important) of the relationship while being happy about many others.

At the risk of sounding like captain obvious, have you two ever considered / discussing having other kinds of 'fun'? Eg him using toys on you? An ex asked me for this when I was, well, out of action for a while because of surgery and it was hugely fun for both of us.

I think the point is that @lonelyblonde 's OH doesn't want to. Or at least that is the impression he is giving off.

Creepinglight · 02/01/2023 12:10

OP, I really think you need to let go of the idea that 'this relationship really works except for in this regard.' It really doesn't matter what 'this regard is'. All that matters is that the relationship is not working, and not working in a significant regard. The unhappiness from this is seeping out of you. It'll get worse over time. This is clearly not a working relationship. A core part is broken.

Velvian · 02/01/2023 12:27

I see some PPs have recommended Esther Perel. I would also recommend her podcasts. They might give you some insight and strategies.

Have you tried different ways of talking to your wife about it@LosingIt2022 ?@LosingIt2022 ? (sorry don't know why it tagged you twice). I would try approaching it from another angle. My guess is that she is constantly aware that you want more sex and any conversation feels like an attack.

Having been through a period where I was aware my DH wanted more sex than we were having, I would guess that I thought about it more than he did. At least he knew when he was thinking about it, it was a constant weight and threat to me. It became a bit of a vicious cycle.

If she won't even talk about it, I think there is some trauma there. Whether it is just the pressure of awareness of the issue, previous sexual abuse (not suggesting by you), birth/miscarriage/abortion injury or trauma.

It sounds like she has issues around sex and reproduction (as many of us do). She doesn't want the the discomfort of dealing with them. I think your best hope is to make things more comfortable for her. The first step is pressure off for the tone being.

gamerchick · 02/01/2023 13:27

LosingIt2022 · 02/01/2023 11:35

@gamerchick why on Earth is it not OK to even bring it up and ask? Some persons are definitely OK with it. The fact that YOU don't like it doesn't mean that no one does.
More generally, how is one to know what the partner is / isn't into if there can ne no discussion? Mindreading?

You've learned nothing from your thread have you?

The way you think about this stuff and refuse to consider any other thoughts means you will carry on not getting any. Makes no odds to me and my marriage.

gamerchick · 02/01/2023 13:30

I think it might do you good to have a read of some of the threads posted by women in relationships. See if you can gain a bit of insight.

Original poster

LosingIt2022 · 02/01/2023 13:42

@gamerchick I have certainly learnt that not all women agree with you.

By your logic, was that ex I mentioned wrong asking me for "favours" when I was out of action after surgery? Were we wrong in both enjoying it? Or are you one of those characters thinking that what is OK for a woman is never OK for a man?

What other thoughts have I refused to consider? I shouted from the rooftops that it is extremely subjective and that no one is entitled to anything.

It seems to me that YOU are refusing to consider that some women might be OK with, hell, even enjoy, stuff which you don't. There was a thread with a woman saying she felt almost hurt when her husband masturbated alone because she always wants to "help" him with that.
Tell me, by your logic, was this woman "wrong" in enjoying something you apparently don't? Or she's not wrong but her husband must mindread because asking is never OK?

OP posts:

2pence · 02/01/2023 15:24

The not wanting sex may have nothing at all to do with you. I'm in my 50s and menopausal and feel like I've been chemically castrated. My lack of desire has nothing to do with my husband because, as another poster said below, he could look like Brad Pitt and I still wouldn't want to have sex with him.

Due to my hormone depletion, am I now somewhere under the Asexual umbrella? I don't know. Will this change again after menopause is over, again, I don't know.

Men's libido wanes with age too so I hope it doesn't become the same problem you're having. I do force myself to have sex and can orgasm easily but, and I think this is the key point I'm trying to get across, I neither desire or need the orgasm. My preference would be to give the whole thing a miss.

I imagine it's a little like being heterosexual and having to have same sex intimacy. Would thinking about it like this help to understand what it's like to lose your libido? If you were in this situation, could you perform?

ILoveMyNewThermosFlask · 02/01/2023 18:57

2pence · 02/01/2023 15:24

The not wanting sex may have nothing at all to do with you. I'm in my 50s and menopausal and feel like I've been chemically castrated. My lack of desire has nothing to do with my husband because, as another poster said below, he could look like Brad Pitt and I still wouldn't want to have sex with him.

Due to my hormone depletion, am I now somewhere under the Asexual umbrella? I don't know. Will this change again after menopause is over, again, I don't know.

Men's libido wanes with age too so I hope it doesn't become the same problem you're having. I do force myself to have sex and can orgasm easily but, and I think this is the key point I'm trying to get across, I neither desire or need the orgasm. My preference would be to give the whole thing a miss.

I imagine it's a little like being heterosexual and having to have same sex intimacy. Would thinking about it like this help to understand what it's like to lose your libido? If you were in this situation, could you perform?

I doubt it’s menopause as his wife is in her mid-30’s. I’m 50 and it’s 5 years since my last period so I’m well and truly post-menopausal. I became ridiculously sexual (which ended my marriage if you read my thread further up) and, although it has settled, I am more sexually awoken than ever but that’s probably because my eyes have been opened. I know most women go the other way to what I did. I agree hormones can cause lots of issues in men and women but I don’t think they are the cause of the issue here.