I think it’s over, please can I have a handhold?

[LadyB156]

DP and I have been together for 9 years. Some time back, from reading MN boards and speaking to a friend I realised that he’s probably been emotionally/ verbally abusive and I’ve responded reactively with it culminating with a toxic cycle. One thing that has really brought all of this home to me is that he doesn’t behave like this in front of other people, which makes me realise that on some level he must know it’s wrong. Aside from that, we have generally rubbed along well and love each other. We have no children.

For a while now, I have felt taken for granted on top of the above, that I don’t matter. He is a higher earner and works long hours (usually from home). We both work for large organisations. A vacancy for me came up recently that would involve relocating (and included a relocation package) which I was interested in. I tried to talk to him about it but he wouldn’t engage in conversation on it other than to say he wasn’t interested in relocating but if I wanted to go for it I could and I felt hurt. With my general unhappiness, I applied for it, interviewed and got the job. I didn’t tell him until after the offer because I didn’t think he really cared and my plan was to leave him and I felt that this gave me an opportunity to.

Since I told him, he has been devastated and wants to fight for me. He’s saying all the right things and recognises all he has done wrong, didn’t know I was unhappy etc. - but, crucially, says that he doesn’t want me to relocate as it couldn’t possibly work. I didn’t expect this and feel quite cut up. But I have to follow through, don’t I? An abuser doesn’t change his spots and if we have a toxic behaviour pattern is any change really going to stick?

Sorry, I’m not sure what my question is to you all. No matter how hard it is, I have to leave him and start again, don’t I?

Sounds like a great idea, hopefully they think so too. Don’t forget bad days will happen, but they’ll pass.

I imagine still being in the house can feel oppressive and exhausting. Can you change your routine to move away from any of the day to day stuff you’re finding aligns with him? Think about what your routine will be like in your new place and maybe start developing that?

Distract yourself with whatever excites you about the future.

Leave him! You’re 30… plenty of time for children with somebody else who loves you and treats you well! Don’t attempt long distance.. just make a clean break and move on

OP, I think the reason he was so 'devastated' and has made such an effort since you announced the new job is he knows he's been an ahole, but if you leave he'll have to find someone else to be an ahole to and basically he can't be bothered. So he'll love bomb you until you give up the amazing new opportunity, be nice for a few weeks and then when it's too late for you to accept the new job .. he'll revert to his true behaviour.

You're doing so well OP. A friend of mine is getting divorced and the husband recently moved out and she feels SO much better. All of the guilt and regret and shame are gone and she just feels free. I think it's really hard to get in that fresh headspace when you're still living together. And that relationship didn't even have any abuse! You don't need to buy his narrative/rewrite of history, you don't need his family's acceptance (he'll never be honest with them about what he did), you don't need your family's permission (your parents are worried for you and they're letting that overcome common sense), you KNOW what you're doing is right.

Get excited about your move, make a list of all the things you want to do in new city, maybe a some new clothes for your new job? What do you want your new place to look like? 30 is so so young and you're about to embark on a new life where the only people in your life will be those that treat you with love and kindness and respect.

An update - I told him I wanted things to be over, he kept questioning things, didn’t really want to take what I said at face value which was exhausting. The next day, he sat down and said all the right things and I’ll admit, I was tempted by it. I didn’t commit to anything, I just asked a few questions about what things might look like. He’s since really really pissed me off. We’re spending the weekend apart, doing our own separate things but he’s been all over me when we’ve been around each other, keeps giving me hugs, wanting to cuddle etc. I’ve said no a few times. It is draining and every time I think he understands my perspective, he says something that makes me realise he has not taken ownership of his abusive behaviour. I also don’t understand why he says that how things are now is what he has always wanted when he’s made no effort for such a long time for things to be like this. It makes me think it’s just words.

I also had a really frank conversation with my parents and they seem to understand it properly now, I hadn’t really wanted to get into the ins and outs of it all but now I have I feel like they realise it’s not a normal argument and that I’ve been treated appallingly. I took inspiration from @goody2shooz - it was really helpful to frame a question to them, so thank you.

I am so excited about my move. I’m going to start making a list of things I’m going to do and places to explore while I’m out there. I’ve already started on my lists of things to take.

Well done OP. Look to your future and get excited. Looking back will only de-energise you. You are stronger than you think

He has all this energy to do the right things but only harnessed it when he understood you weren’t going to take his low effort bullshit. He would have been happy to have been low effort forever if you didn’t rise up for yourself.

at this point you’re being borderline abusive because your complicit in this tug of war of emotions that deep down you don’t feel. You need to cut bait and go. You’re playing tug rope and enjoying his pathetic efforts. Just go. He is not for you. You deserve more and his pathetic validation is just shit on a shoe. Trust me, no other woman cares about his desires. You lower yourself by even engaging in this heap of lame pathetic relationship carnage.

Go ahead and free yourself from this parasite. Cut contact!!! You’re reveling in his honestly pathetic low rent attempts to win you back like a fat pig slopping happily in mud. Yes I said it.

He is not a prize and no woman of value would even look his way. Move on. You’re too good for him.

LadyB156

wow that’s amazing progress
in terms of him and in discussing with your family

honestly you need a clean break
will mentally be 100000% times easier when you not in same house
when you leave ?

Hi Op. I hadn't read your post before, so I've read them all in one go just now. Readlly well done for getting the new job! Throw yourself in to it. There is a brilliant, exciting new chapter of your life waiting for you.

And definitely don't be tempted to go back to him. For so many reasons

• he was abusive
• even now he hasn't taken responsibility for his abuse
• he could have listened to you, and made changes, at any point but chose to ignore your unhappiness
• He's only decided he can change when it looks like you are stronger than he thought, and walking away from him (ie when it might disadvantage HIM)
• Your gut tells you that you don't want to be with him, marry him, have children with him

In fact, the list goes on. You won't regret leaving him for a second.

And don't feel any guilt - remember he caused this situation. He was happy watching you suffering for a long time. He isn't worthy of your guilt.

He has been a deliberately nasty abusive arsehole for years.

That is who he is.

Nothing else but that.

His go to was to try and screw you financially by having you subsidise his bills, when you leave, even though he earns more than you.

That is how his mind is, use and abuse.

He is utter scum.

Stop being nice and get everything you deserve financially from the sale and split of the house.

Stop protecting him.
Tell the truth.

You took a job away to get away from him and his abusive behaviour.

He's not a good man and you will not want to stay in touch.

You desperately need counselling to process what you have accepted and the fact that your parents are such a huge disappointment to you.

They wanted you to stay in a bad situation as it suited them to have you ticked off as settled.

Truly awful behaviour.
Do not stop yourself feeling angry and very disappointed in them.
You have every right to be.

30 is so young and you have a great opportunity to have a really great future ahead of you.

Well done for being so brave despite your family.

@billy1966 and @perfectcolourfound i know you’re right - the Lundy Bancroft book was a hard read. We are living together but separately for now and seeing all the changes is really nice but he hasn’t taken ownership of any of his abusive behaviour over the years. There’s a specific more recent aspect (not doing much round the house, working all of the time etc.) that he has taken ownership of but he hasn’t acknowledged that he’s been verbally and emotionally abusive over the years and how it has escalated. I get all swept up in the “how things could be” but then I’m reminded of that and that he chose to treat me like shit and didn’t care about how I felt. I feel pathetic for saying it, but I do still love him and so part of me does like the fact he is (mostly) saying the right things. Part of me is terrified of starting again and potentially not having a family but I know he’s not suitable father material. Sometimes I wish I had grown a backbone years ago, no point dwelling on it though as I can’t change it.

I’ve stopped protecting him and have discussed the abuse more openly with my best friend and some family.

In the next few weeks I should be away for a few days to meet my new team and I’m really looking forward to some space and time away.

@LadyB156 do you really love him, or is it more familiarity? Why would you ‘love’ someone who treats you badly? Be relieved that you don’t have children in this toxic mix!
But an important thing is to not get into the idea of starting again, as if you were back at the beginning - think of it more as progress, getting on in the world, new opportunities for a better future. And if you want a great relationship in the future, you won’t find that stuck with HIM! Sure you feel anxious about it all but that’s normal, he showed you who he was and only ‘changed’ (a tiny bit) now that you’re leaving. A better future is yours for the taking with this perfect opportunity!

Nope you don't love him, you just think you do becaus of the length of time.

You think you have felt pain to date?

A couple of children and feeling stuck would be real misery and pain, especially with parents like yours that might have encouraged you to stick it out.

Be so thankful that you didn't have a child with him and inflict his abuse on a child.

There is something so selfish IMO to knowingly have a child with a man who treats you poorly, just because you want a child.

Start making notes of the abuse and keep telling family and friends.

Be so proud of yourself that you are going to be free.

Do the www.freedomprogramme.co.uk online to help you learn from this and take time to process this.

You are a great woman and you are so so young with nothing but a great future ahead of you......once you learn from this experience, and get your boundaries firmed up.

@goody2shooz i think you’re right about it being familiarity over love. I do care for him but not in love with him.

@billy1966 i have been quite clear that I don’t want to have children with him. I’m just grieving for what could have been (but could never have been). Re my parents - now they are aware it’s not just life disagreements, they are supportive. There is no active abuse at this point but when things change I will write it down and tell people.

You're doing the right thing, OP. A clean break is the best. If you find yourself weakening, remind yourself what a jerk he is in so many ways, eg with money. People who have money but hate parting with it are usually mean-spirited in other ways too.

What irks is that he thinks I should be contributing to bills where I am not living. Even when he's doing his utmost to win you back, he can't stop himself being tight-fisted and exploiting you! I almost feel sorry for him. He just can't keep up the nice-guy act!

Best of luck with your move and the new job.

It's natural to feel lonely at first, in a new place, so turn it to your advantage by doing exactly what you want to do (no one else to consider). Try new activities, new lifestyles, new kinds of place -- eg pubs if you used to go to restaurants, browsing libraries instead of shopping. Anything that being away from your usual surroundings frees you to try.

And do come back here any time you like, with an update, a rant, a cry of triumph or just a chat.

I feel like such a fool and feel so embarrassed to be posting this. I had a few days away at my new workplace, meeting the team, seeing some accommodation options and the local area etc. it was lovely and I now cannot wait to go. I didn’t want to come home, I felt excited to start my life out there.

While I was away, he was supportive, encouraging, kept saying all of the right things. Before I left, for things to be easier I said let’s see it as a trial, it could show us how long distance might be (seeing as he changed his mind on this). When I came back, I said I was prepared to give us and long distance a go. Since then, I feel like things have been different but in a really subtle way and it has taken several days of being back to work it out. Without getting into the ins and outs it has led me questioning if I’m being horrible and not properly giving it a chance. I’ve realised that I am feeling criticised and so have snapped a few times. I’ve apologised after but it feels like he’s holding it over me. He’s keen to point out the nice things he is doing for me, but at the same time pointing out the things I haven’t done or telling me I am being grumpy. That doesn’t feel fair. I feel like such an idiot, I was on such a high and now I’m on high alert for signs that it was all to just lull me into a false sense of security. This is no way to live my life.

You have nothing to feel embarrassed about! Just hold on to how you felt while you were away and how happy you were. This is your new life!

Move and then decide what to do about your relationship

Honestly OP, you have been years with a highly nasty abusive man and of course breaking away fully is difficult.

He had years to do the right thing and behave like a decent person but he chose to abuse you behind closed doors.

He likes abusing you and it has fed that ugly part of him that is a part of who he is.

That will NEVER change.

You have a wonderful opportunity to improve your life by moving away.

He is toxic.
Your relationship with him was toxic and abusive.

This is your one life.

Don't waste it trying to fix a nasty abusive little shit that enjoys being nasty to you in private.

You don't EVER want to inflict him on a child.

You have a great future ahead of you if you can just be brave and hold on.

I really home you can find the extra bravery inside you to get away and make a better life for yourself.

So many women in your position stupidly think men are some bloody project to fix.

They waste their youth and boy do they live to regret it.

We cannot change anothet person.

The truth is it's really hard to change things about ourselves that we don't like.

It is pure ego to think we can change anyone but ourselves.

Give yourself the best chznce of success in this new place.

Don't bring the baggage of him and this toxic relationship with you.

Embrace this new exciting start with all its possibilities.

You deserve this.

Thanks for your posts. They’ve made me feel better.

@billy1966 you are right - I deserve this and what he has done has been down to him. Part of me feels shame for having let myself be treated like this but the Lundy Bancroft book has been really helpful in setting out how it happens over time and isn’t always like this. I feel sad, not because I saw him as a project to fix but because the person I thought he was and the person he has ended up being are not entirely the same. It’s sad that he couldn’t even keep it up for long. It’s sad that he doesn’t seem to understand how consent works (the book opened my eyes to coercion). It’s all just sad.

I need to try and think through practical steps.

Good for you.

Keep reminding yourself you owe h NOTHING.

He is abusive.

HE destroyed your relationship.

You are so young with so many wonderful opportunities ahead of you.

I am old and mine are mostly behind me, but I remember your age and within a few years you will look back and thank god and the universe you left and think wtf did I put up with.

It's all a part of growing up.
It's only the luckiest of women don't meet a twat or two, unfortunately this guy has gotten years of your life, ......so you really need to take this new found awareness and opportunity and get the hell away

So many women don't, accept their treatment, get pregnant and then find themselves stuck an royally fxxked.

So much harder to leave with children.

I understand that this is both a sad and stressful time, but soon you will be relieved beyond belief to have gotten free.

The way you describe him, I would absolutely see the abuse increasing as time went on, probably to physical if you gotten pregnant.

His behaviour is absolutely not normal in any way.

Don't be bullied by him.
It's over.
Get the house sold.

Keep telling family and friends how abusive he was.

Coercive control is a crime.

Don't protect them from the truth.

This is not your shame, it's all on HIM.

The more you say out loud how badly he treated you, the more you are accepting it is over and moving on.

Start that job 100% single.

Take time and space to read, do the www.freedomprogramme.co.uk and work on yourself, so that you are protected from men like him.

You have a great future waiting for you, grasp it, and run with it.

Don't hesitate to post again if you wish.

We are here for you.

Thank you @billy1966 that is very kind. We’ve had a chat and there’s so much he has said. Some of his comments are valid and some of it, it feels very much like it’s his way and I’m just expected to fit in with that. In my heart I know that I should be leaving here single but I also need to take appropriate steps beforehand. I am talking much more openly with some close friends which has helped. Just waiting on my start date to be confirmed, which I’m hoping won’t be much longer.

I think the only mistake you’ve made is to try to live in the same house. It’s blurred all the boundaries. A clean break would have been so much better and easier.
When you eventually move away, the decision will become so much clearer. I think it’s pretty obvious you shouldn’t be together. That’s not to say you won’t feel lonely at times, or miss what he was promising he could be, but in reality, you know that it can’t really happen. It’s over, but not properly over until you move out.

Personally I’d make it a proper break up, the minute you go. You can always reevaluate later - but I hope you don’t.

@LadyB156 - as PP have said, it’s bound to be painful and difficult trying to extricate yourself from this relationship, particularly while you’re still living together. I think the path will become very clear once you’re abroad. If you can possibly move somewhere else before you leave, that would be preferable. I think you mentioned a friend’s place may become available. That sounds ideal.

I do think returning to this relationship would be an enormous mistake. @billy1966 always has loads of wise advice and has called it right. You’ve been with this guy for 9 years. He’s had an awful lot of time to get things right.

Frankly, your parents should have supported your wish to leave without additional explanation. It should have been enough that you wanted out. You and this guy got together very young - many such relationships have run their course by late 20s/early 30s, even where there’s no bad behaviour. I remember a thread on here where someone observed that they knew lots of relationships where the couple had married at, say, 30, having been together a decade and the marriage had quickly broken down. The poster observed that it was as if these couples had felt obliged to marry and hadn’t realised that they were allowed to split.

The sink costs fallacy is really important. Please acquaint your parents with it. The 9 years of this relationship aren’t wasted if you leave the relationship. You will have learnt a great deal from it. But the 9 years are a reason why you shouldn’t waste any more time with the wrong partner.

… sunk costs fallacy…