I know it's the most boring question - but is it always best to LTB?

[TinselTinselTinsel]

A tale as old as time. DH has become v annoying, small minded, can be mean in arguments. Daily low level lack of respect.

Can be v loving. Is good with kids mostly. Funny.

I don't have respect for him. He chats a load of nonsense these days. Mansplains everything. Talks at me. I don't hate spending time with him weirdly but I know if it wasn't for kids I'd have gone ages ago.

I promised 2023 is the year to leave. I've watched a couple of films/TV recently which feature divorce (including I Hate Suzie which would put anyone off). And basically I've got scared

My husband is alright but I know 100% he would HATE me for leaving and see it as me destroying him and he would do everything he could to make it as painful as possible. Every pick up, every weekend, every school play - he would make as difficult as possible. I am also the breadwinner and he would get every penny he could despite me doing 90% of housework and admin etc. He has quite poor MH sometimes and I hate to think how messy it could all get.

Anyway. Sorry for the ramble. I know people say it's always better to leave but really? Low level irritation is better than a decade of absolute awfulness which the DC would be stuck in the middle of their whole childhood?(DC are 2 and 3)??

Any advice or stories would be so appreciated

X

@Lhoevaelth I think that your assumption that a woman can't be happy unless she's in a relationship is very damaging. The number of women who are deliberately staying single is increasing because so many of us are realising we don't need a man and we don't particularly want one either. I'm so sorry your single life has been miserable, but OP is the main earner, is already doing everything in the home and in the event of a split would lose a big chunk of dead wood which only creates more work for her. What's not to like about that? My post LTB/divorce/widowhood (he died before the nisi was pronounced) has been a massive, massive improvement on the last 5 years of my marriage. I have no intention of ever having a long term relationship again, never mind living with a man. And if a parade of men wanting nothing more than sex is on offer, I say yes please, bring it on!

Thanks so much all for your perspectives

@Lhoevaelth I'm sorry things have been so tough. I don't doubt it's exhausting and can feel pretty thankless.

To be frank though - I'm really only worried about the kids and them being mixed up in something really horrible and bitter for years and having to spend weekends and Christmases with someone who can be a laugh one minute and then ignore them the next. His misogyny would turn into venom...I would be the bitch ex wife forever more and I don't mind that myself but I hate thinking my two boys hearing that

But the being alone bit is all good with me. And I do all the practical stuff by myself already. I pay the mortgage, do the cleaning, I just have some bloke telling me I'm not doing any of it right at the moment.

Does he work and pay his share of the bills.

How does this sound:

“To be frank though - I'm really only worried about the kids and them being mixed up in something really horrible and bitter for years and having to spend their whole childhood 24/7/365 with someone who can be a laugh one minute and then ignore them the next.

His misogyny would turn into venom...I would be the bitch Mum forever more and I don't mind that myself but I hate thinking my two boys hearing, absorbing and internalising that….”

To be frank though - I'm really only worried about the kids and them being mixed up in something really horrible and bitter for years and having to spend weekends and Christmases with someone who can be a laugh one minute and then ignore them the next. His misogyny would turn into venom...I would be the bitch ex wife forever more and I don't mind that myself but I hate thinking my two boys hearing that.

As PPs have noted, this is really chilling, OP - the fact that you know he will be vindictive underlines that he doesn't really love and respect you at all.

Your kids are already mixed up in something horrible and bitter: this daily disrespect for their mother, the absence of real love and appreciation in their parents' marriage. They witness this daily, and absorb much more from it than you can imagine.

If he turns into a dick after you split up, at least he's only doing it on his own patch and you can all work out a way of managing this.

What do you get out of this relationship now with your H?.

If a friend of yours was describing this as their relationship, what would your counsel be?.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. You two are the reference point for their future adult relationships and people tend to repeat what they already know from childhood experience. Do not further let this relationship, a relationship that is or should be long since over, be their legacy for them to carry over into adulthood.

Fear of him, fear of the unknown and monetary worries are three of many reasons why people stay. I put it to you that no obstacle to leaving is ultimately insurmountable. Feel the fear and do it anyway; move on with your lives without this man in it day to day. You have been in relationships most if not all your entire adult life, find out who you really are.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?.

Staying for the sake of the children is a bad idea and in your case a particularly bad idea. It could be argued that its not for their sake that you have stayed but for your own because its somehow "easier".

If we want our offspring to have joyful and successful relationships, we need to provide them with the best example we possibly can. Living in mediocrity or worse burdens children with very confusing messages about relationships and happiness. It certainly instructs them that loving marriages and partnerships are not their birthright.

Not infrequently, people are simply afraid to move on with their lives and take their own responsibility for happiness. Financial concerns or the fear of being alone often motivate such paralysis, hidden beneath the mask of staying together for the children.

Unloving or conflicted marriages often follow a lineage as they are passed down from generation to generation. And so the cycle continues. Is this what we really wish for our children? It is much more challenging to come to terms with our own circumstances and face our fears than it is to hide behind them as we stay together “for the kids.” Remaining in relationships that perpetuate anger, devaluation, and lack of positive interactions like you are describing in your relationship leaves an indelible scar on children.

Them being told that and coming home to a safe space with you where you are obviously not a bitch, is far better than living in a household where the misogyny flows around them more subtly and they are taught by example that the man does fuck all & the woman sucks it up.

At least give your boys a chance of not growing up just like their father.

I dont like the sound of him, he doesnt seem to have any nurturing or protective instincts, I think he's just doing the minimum to keep you sweet because that makes life easier for him.
I cant see him fighting for his children or wanting to be 'lumbered' with them for extended periods of time, I think it'd be easy to phase him out of your & thier lives if you plan things well

I agree with this.

These types say they want 50/50 just to piss off, punish and frustrate the Mother

They just want the fight - but not the prize.

Bide your time, know his game (get a good lawyer who has seen it all before) and he won’t last a weekend taking sole care of two toddlers and will be making excuses to cancel and hand back.

Leave it longer and he will feel fine to neglect a couple of primary school kids in his care.

@TinselTinselTinsel my husband is how you describe. He talks me down to the kids (4&6) and plays emotional blackmail. You would show the kids a good example if you can rise above this, being the more stable parent. My friend's parents separated when she was young and she told me that one parent used to slag off the other, and she maintains that the hurt she felt was as a result of the bad things being said, and she never attached those feelings to the one being slagged off, if that makes sense. I try and just stay calm, always talk kindly about their dad, and hope that it's a settling influence. They will gravitate towards that in the end. Their dad literally made me tell the kids it was all my decision (the split) by arguing that it wasn't his idea in front of them and just slags me off to them all the time, but they are no less loving of me/close as a result.

NotReallySure

I sincerely hope you also make 2023 the year you get away from your abuser of a husband too. Trying to protect them from all his emotionally charged shit is impossible whilst you are all under the same roof. The children can and do pick up on all the vibes here, both spoken and unspoken, between you and he.

What are you getting out of this marriage? It sounds like you are taking on all of the mental load and the relationship is not a partnership at all. As the kids get older and their needs change (school runs, clubs, homework, parties) unless your DH steps up the burden is likely to fall even more on you and the resentment will only grow.

If you can do look into relationship counselling for yourself to try to define what you want out of your marriage and what are acceptable boundaries. If you do decide to leave it will help you navigate that process.

I was in a similar relationship and often thought about leaving (in the end he cheated). I won’t lie and say it was easy but I honestly felt like I had one less child to look after (and ex DH had to step up with he kids as he wanted 50/50, to give him credit he does far more with the kids now we’ve separated). You still have so much life left, don’t settle for a mediocre one. I’ve also found that children have more sense then we give them credit for, they have quite accurately sussed out behaviours I’ve never pointed out to them and remain loyal no matter what is said to them. Good luck OP.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I've just managed to get out of the house, the barrage of insults continues but so much easier separate. It was hell, and so stressful while I was still there. As you would appreciate. I think looking back it's hard to believe what some of us have put up with! The kids definitely pick up on the vibes and I think they are much better off out of that atmosphere.

It's my birthday tomorrow and I just asked him "do I get a lie in tomorrow?" and he replied "you know the kids won't let you".

What a LUCKY woman I am. 😑

Urgh. Can’t he get up and take them out somewhere?

Happy birthday op.

Happy birthday OP

collect it all up and serve it back to him cold

I think it's all about the example you set your children. What does a loving relationship look like to you? It was hard but that's why I separated, I wanted the children to set their bar high.

Happy birthday OP.

Happy birthday, OP! I think you know what the best birthday present you could give yourself would be.

Have a lovely Birthday 🥳

I waited until dc were older but regret that as it never got better. I am also financially able to take care of myself. From a practical point of view the earlier you leave a lower earner the better. Yes they will get bigger % than perhaps their contribution deserves (although depends where dc mostly live) but everything you earn and pay down after divorce is yours. Ex got much more because I stayed even though he barely earnt anything the last few years. If he’s selfish he will prioritise himself - earning his own money and probably getting a new gf over the dc. He will probably refuse to help with childcare as he now has to earn and pay his own housing. There was something on Women’s Hour this week about how unattractive having a manchild as a partner is. If you have young children then having other family help can make it much easier. The biggest shock for me was how quickly ex reduced time he saw the dc. I genuinely didn’t see that coming. But I’ve also realised that one awesome parent is enough as they have turned out pretty well and in many ways better than they would if we had stayed together as ex was not a good male role model and as teens they began to copy how he spoke to me and other negative behaviours of his.

This is a great post.

Well done for giving your DCs the experience of an awesome parent - that’s what all DCs need and deserve.

IMHO you can’t give them that when your spirit is eroded and ground down over the years.

We get older and more tired.

Life becomes busier, more demanding, challenging and more emotionally complicated as our DCs grow and we need to be resilient by conserving and prioritising our finite time, energy and headspace for them - rather than it being increasingly drained and diverted to the loser parent. These men get worse as they age - their ego takes a battering when they realise they are not all that and they take out their increasing bitterness and dissatisfaction on those around them.

Is it going to get better? Or is this your life from now on ?