I know it's the most boring question - but is it always best to LTB?

[TinselTinselTinsel]

A tale as old as time. DH has become v annoying, small minded, can be mean in arguments. Daily low level lack of respect.

Can be v loving. Is good with kids mostly. Funny.

I don't have respect for him. He chats a load of nonsense these days. Mansplains everything. Talks at me. I don't hate spending time with him weirdly but I know if it wasn't for kids I'd have gone ages ago.

I promised 2023 is the year to leave. I've watched a couple of films/TV recently which feature divorce (including I Hate Suzie which would put anyone off). And basically I've got scared

My husband is alright but I know 100% he would HATE me for leaving and see it as me destroying him and he would do everything he could to make it as painful as possible. Every pick up, every weekend, every school play - he would make as difficult as possible. I am also the breadwinner and he would get every penny he could despite me doing 90% of housework and admin etc. He has quite poor MH sometimes and I hate to think how messy it could all get.

Anyway. Sorry for the ramble. I know people say it's always better to leave but really? Low level irritation is better than a decade of absolute awfulness which the DC would be stuck in the middle of their whole childhood?(DC are 2 and 3)??

Any advice or stories would be so appreciated

X

@prettygreenteacup thank you for sharing what you're going through.it sounds like you made the right and brave decision. was your DH unhappy too in the relationship or was he v. angry? my DH doesn't really stand on his own two feet and has got very used to being mothered by me in practical terms (that's on me I know) and he has NO desire to be single and independent at all.

I really despair for women who are with men who don’t respect them just because they’re afraid of what leaving will do to their kids.

I left my ex when my kid was 7months, and people do seem to ‘get it’ more because he cheated - but he was an arse before he cheated, and looking back I’m almost glad he did because it gave me a reason to leave that no one could argue with.

I understand your fears, but I think if you’re going to split, it’s best to do it when your kids are young so they can adjust.

Ask yourself, can you see yourself biting your tongue and living with him exactly as he is now for the rest of your life? I couldn’t.

@TTinselTinselTinsel oh god yes, I was his mother and his maid, it was truly degrading and depressing living with someone who I knew had no respect or regard for me as his wife, I was just a handy housekeeper. He cheated multiple times, in person and countless online women, and also built up 30k of gambling debt. So evidently he was unhappy but he also has a lot of shit to sort out if he is ever going to be a decent human. He couldn't give me the basic levels of respect as a person, never mind the one he married and had kids with. He never thought I'd end the marriage, I was a doormat, and that enabled his behaviour over the years. He wore my self esteem down to nothing, and robbed me of all my self worth. That's what happens when someone is consistent in their utter disregard and disrespect for you. I bet your DH doesn't for one second believe you would leave him.

What you say about how his hatred of you would be so intense speaks volumes I think about the kind of man he is. He's not mature or caring and he sees things only from how it affects him. A decent respectful man wouldn't want to be vindictive, if only because it would impact on his own children.

Living with someone like this grinds you down over time. You might be able to bear it now while the children are small and you're incredibly busy, but imagine him making you cringe still in ten years time when you've lost what little affection you feel for him now. It saps the spirit and lowers your self esteem.

I agree with the PP that it becomes harder to leave with teens. They're more aware of things and then you get into GCSEs and A levels and before you know it you've spent two decades in this state of disappointment and disrespect. I would never tell anyone it's better to stay in relationships for the children. If nothing else, do you want your children to think it's ok to talk about women creaming their knickers? At least if you're not with him you're not endorsing his view of the world.

I left my ex when my kid was 7months, and people do seem to ‘get it’ more because he cheated - but he was an arse before he cheated, and looking back I’m almost glad he did because it gave me a reason to leave that no one could argue with.

This is such a good point. I was thinking about starting a thread about this. Everyone seems to think leaving someone for adultery is perfectly fine, so you get lots of validation. However, this is not the worse thing that could happen for me: I think disrespect and petty vindictiveness are far worse to put up with, day in, day out. And yet somehow you are treated as not trying hard enough if you want to leave because of that.

@Stunningscreamer yeah - I think I've found that thought very hard. Admitting to myself I've married someone who wouldn't put his kids first despite seeming like he's 'obsessed' with them. So one of the main defences of him is how good he is with the kids, but actually he can be quite selfish. There are a few examples of me asking him not to shout in front of them or swear and he doesn't really seem to care. And then this morning, he knew our DS was hungry & crying - but gave him a couple of crackers in his cot and a phone to look at so DH could lie in bed longer. It's that stuff that makes me want to leave him more while at the same time feel more scared to leave as I worry what I would be subjecting my kids too. I realise his loving and fun nature with them is often only because I doing all the grind - the nightwakes and the laundry and the nappies.

Oh god. Thanks all for your help. I'm back to my original mindset - 2023 is the year to leave. I just started having doubts over christmas and as i could not bear the thought of my two boys having christmas without me - not for me (I would happily order a take out and go to bed early) - but for them - I don't trust he would make an effort or not be a dick about stuff.

But it's fear isn't it? I'm early 30s so i gott a lot of life left and it does feel pretty awful to think of decades listening to him telling me about the "natural order" of men and women - despite me working longer hours and earning more than him!

If there’s abuse definitely ltb

If he’s annoying and boring but not abusive, try couples counselling, putting life back in the relationship, swinging etc.

The reality is that many people think they will find the man of their dreams post divorce and have a nasty shock to discover there’s a steady stream of men who want sex without committing and very few real decent prospects.

You sound great OP. I couldn’t live with someone who tells me things like that / the natural order of things??? While you do the lions share?!! So he’s a hypocrite as well as a lazy misogynist?

That makes my blood boil just reading it - the total disrespect and selfishness and the put down of you and all women while holding his hands out to take more. It’s contemptuous of you.

I get there is fear but he sounds unbearable now and at least this way you can be unchained to such a misery who is so belittling of you. It’s not easy being a single parent, but it’s a LOT easier than parenting kids AND a grown up who puts you down. A lot.

Oh this is ugly.

He so resentful and contemptuous of you as a woman for your achievements and his loathing and misogyny comes out with comments that are actually about you.

I wouldn’t raise my DCs to witness this.

I wouldn’t let this controlling man erode my soul so that my DCs had a diminished DM.

He is controlling you with his moods, threatening anger etc - so you walk on eggshells.

What you are worried about him being disruptive and vindictive if you separated he is doing already. Difference is you can court order arrangements and you only have to deal with his sabotage max a couple of times a week - whereas now it’s 24/7/365 - not sure you can see it.

Take your DCs out of this toxic environment so that they have a fully present and attuned mother - no one run ragged and preoccupied with not poking the bear.

You will all have a much richer life emotionally.

He can’t keep you hostage. Do your research and make sure that you have all of the contingencies ready for when he pulls the usual stunts. These men are very predictable and all lawyers have seen their nonsense before so can have things in place to circumvent. Look up coercive control. He is not above the law.

And many women also realise they don’t need to find a replacement new man to be happy and they’d rather focus on making themselves and their kids happy, in a healthy atmosphere before even contemplating dating.

Just because you may not find someone amazing ( always a gamble no matter what stage of life) doesn’t mean you should put up with shit in the meantime.

I feel so sad for people who waste their lives with the attitude ‘better the devil you know’. Most i’ve seen end up bitter and miserable but cling to the idea that at least they’ve been with someone for x amount of years. Like that’s somehow an achievement. I’d rather be alone than with a shitty partner.

Do consider whether his treatment of you is already affecting your judgement. You’ve referred to him being a good dad a few times but the actions you describe (shouting and swearing or giving the baby crackers and a phone) is borderline child neglect. Sorry if that sounds harsh. You sound like a really good mom and it would be good for your children not to grow up in the household you describe. I get that you don’t want them to experience it without you there but at the moment they are experiencing it anyway.

The reality is that many people think they will find the man of their dreams post divorce and have a nasty shock to discover there’s a steady stream of men who want sex without committing and very few real decent prospects.

Oh dear, the "grass is never greener" argument keeps too many people in the wrong place.

I must say that after my divorce I was thrilled to bits with the steady stream of men who wanted sex without committing. It was just what the doctor ordered!

Also, finding the man of your dreams post divorce is perfectly possible, and clearly more likely than finding him when married to someone you actively dislike.

TinselTinselTinsel imagine if in 10 years time you're still trying to endure.

Not only will your children be constant witness to the casual contempt that your husband treats you with (and think it's normal), they'll also be on the cusp on creating their own lives.

They'll certainly have established friends/hobbies/schools, they'll also be dealing with the great fun that is puberty - all whilst their curmudgeon of a dad lords over everyone with his superior opinions and bad attitude. Leaving then will absolutely feel impossible because you really will be throwing a grenade into the middle of their lives.

Make 2023 your year. Your children are young enough to adapt to whatever and wherever your new life will be. You're young enough to not have to write off the rest of your life as a woman who puts up with crap out of fear of the unknown.

Sometimes the question isn't is it best, it's is it the least awful of the options available to me and the life those options will trap me in.
Sometimes it's pick pile of crap number 1 or pile of crap number 2.

My experience is that the younger the children, the better.
My oldest was 11 and my youngest was 5 and now only my youngest has a relationship with his dad.
When they are older there are attachments like school which are harder to break.
You and your h are role models for your children's future relationships.
If you've been here long enough then you might have seen posts by adults whose parents stayed together for the sake of the kids and they pretty much all say that they wish that their parents had split. Not only is it an impossibly heavy burden to carry, they could always sense the tension and avoided spending time with their parents because it was so awful.
You've got many decades of live left. Don't waste it

Please don't do this OP. You're already doing the lion's share and it's not up to you to fix him or work on the relationship. And couples counselling won't change his basic character. Worse case scenario it will validate him, making you feel even worse. Let's face it, he has to be a manipulative man otherwise he wouldn't be able to have pulled the wool over your eyes for long enough for you to marry him. He'll do the same with a counsellor.

And I agree with the other posters who say that you would be happier not in a terrible relationship, you may still meet someone better and if you don't you'll be fine as you are. We're all told we need a man to complete us, but really what is this man actually adding to your life; he seems to be just taking away from it.

The grass grows green where it’s watered.

relationships require both parties to make a tremendous amount of effort, but the basis of it surely is that you actually like each other as people.

@TinselTinselTinsel Just to say in my late 20s I split with my first husband. We got married very young and I just outgrew him- he was still very pub, mates, football and sexist and the 28 year old no longer felt how the16 year old did in my case.

I too thought he would be bereft, viscious etc, he was until about 5 weeks later when he started seeing someone else (who was a lovely person ) he simply became indifferent - it was as if I hadn't existed. Never underestimate the ability of men to move on very quickly and often be quite shallow about previous relationships. It was I admit quite a dent to my self esteem that I was so easily replaceable!!

@Lhoevaelth I've got plenty of silly or not so silly "reasons" for staying- but lack of decent men or "prospects" is definitely not one of them. I've been in relationships all my life...I daydream about my own bed, home, space. I don't feel any desire for another bloke at all.

I just want to emphasise here - I am in no way blaming you for the circumstances you are in nor am I suggesting that you should have foreseen them. My point was only that you cannot predict the future and I would hope you don't write off the possibility of making the changes you need out of fear.

I am properly lolling at the idea that the solution to OP’s problems is to take up swinging 😆

That was actually suggested to me by a relate counsellor. People are literally fucking mental

@CarmenOHara who suggested swinging?? Definitely not for me😂

Couldn't you create your own space in your home? Agree certain times where you are left alone?

Oh I misread that post as suggesting "swimming" on first read. Which already seemed a slightly unusual suggestion.