I know it's the most boring question - but is it always best to LTB?

[TinselTinselTinsel]

A tale as old as time. DH has become v annoying, small minded, can be mean in arguments. Daily low level lack of respect.

Can be v loving. Is good with kids mostly. Funny.

I don't have respect for him. He chats a load of nonsense these days. Mansplains everything. Talks at me. I don't hate spending time with him weirdly but I know if it wasn't for kids I'd have gone ages ago.

I promised 2023 is the year to leave. I've watched a couple of films/TV recently which feature divorce (including I Hate Suzie which would put anyone off). And basically I've got scared

My husband is alright but I know 100% he would HATE me for leaving and see it as me destroying him and he would do everything he could to make it as painful as possible. Every pick up, every weekend, every school play - he would make as difficult as possible. I am also the breadwinner and he would get every penny he could despite me doing 90% of housework and admin etc. He has quite poor MH sometimes and I hate to think how messy it could all get.

Anyway. Sorry for the ramble. I know people say it's always better to leave but really? Low level irritation is better than a decade of absolute awfulness which the DC would be stuck in the middle of their whole childhood?(DC are 2 and 3)??

Any advice or stories would be so appreciated

X

OP, you've got to think about the example this is setting your children. If you do stay with this sexist man, you're giving them that as a model for future relationships.

Doesn't matter if you're a feminist in talk, if the life you live and show them is the woman doing everything while the bloke is fun guy and spouts misogyny that she just puts up with.

The grass grows green where it’s watered.
relationships require both parties to make a tremendous amount of effort

Actually, I ended up finding out that a really good relationship is characterised by having to make very little effort at all, unless you mean generally being considerate towards each other, which should come naturally to a decent human.

Believing that every marriage is hard work can result in many years being wasted watering that particular patch of grass 😁 I speak from experience!

Ooo yes - it has always puzzled me, this idea that relationships take all this work. I’m not sure what the work actually consists of? Communicating is easy if you’re both mature and prepared to listen. Resolving disagreements - ditto. Living together if you’re compatible is fine. Being faithful is easy if you are intimately connected, etc.

All of those things for me are BASICS of a good relationship. Not incredibly challenging mountains to be climbed over years together. What a waste of energy.

It’s just my opinion obviously, but I think you do need to put in a sustained effort as the years go by definitely things should be easy in terms of rubbing along together but I think you have to remember birthdays remember special significant occasions, cook dinner as a surprise, one night, by a nice bottle of wine that you know the other person likes. It’s very easy to take each other for granted is all I’m saying.

But I do not think the OP should stay with this troll of a man.

I realise now that there is a constant agenda of LTB and anyone who disagrees with it gets flamed. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it. OP , do what you will but realise there is an agenda at play here. How often in MN does anyone ever tell a woman to stay and work it out. Never???

That’s right, never. There is some wise advice on here but please talk to people In real life too.

@Lhoevaelth If you think there is an agenda in this particular case then your bar for relationships is waaaay too low. Wanting to leave a lazy selfish verbally rude misogynist is not a bad thing, it's sensible.

I think you are incompatible, you are more sophisticated than him and you out earn him by a wide margin, he finds it very hard to cope with being the lesser person and is constantly trying to knock you down to his level, this will only get worse as time goes on.
You are concerned that he will make trouble for you and I think given the opportunity he will be very bloody minded and difficult however you are more sophisticated than him and you should be able to easily out manoeuvre him.
You will have to be very strategic and control everything behind the scenes so he has no choice but to co-operate with what you want.
It is probably better to do it whilst the children are young he will show his true colours quickly and you will see if he is going to be a good parent when you are apart.

People disagreeing with your viewpoint is not flaming you. No one has insulted you, they have just disagreed. You may see a LTB agenda, I see agendas in many posts to encourage women to stay in shit relationships or give advice which essentially says be miserable and don’t hope for better.

Also, you suggested swinging as a potential part of a solution so you can’t really blame people for giggling at that - it’s pretty out there to suggest these problems can be fixed with random sex with strangers.

How often in MN does anyone ever tell a woman to stay and work it out. Never???
That's because we recognise that many (a significant minority in my estimation) men are only happy in a relationship if they are the boss, and we're not having that anymore

You're the only one with an agenda. How do you think someone who is mean, misogynistic, disrespectful, small minded, hypercritical, lazy and selfish is going to change?

Tell me how the OP is going to make him have a personality transplant.

All you're saying is that women have to put up and shut up. It's a very bad message. How about saving your energies on lobbying these men to shape up.

There are plenty of other men who manage not to be selfish, lazy, disrespectful fuck ups.

If it's just a matter of communication and being a bit stale in the relationship that's a different story. Of course, make the effort on both sides. But that's not the situation here and we have to stop guilting women for wanting more.

2&3 is a good age to leave for the kids.

Well firstly, you are flaming me. You are telling me that I’m “not allowed” to express my own opinion because my opinion is “wrong” with a strong feeling of “how dare you” it’s all the man’s fault thrown in.

I did LTB because I had no choice but that doesn’t mean that I think every relationship should end. Since that time I’ve done 100% of the cooking, cleaning and work and society doesn’t think that’s modern slavery that I’ve had three weekends off in 19 years. No, that’s just how men are. I don’t get time to date, or see all of my friends, I’m poor, tired overworked and judged for everything but that’s just how society is.

So while you people are filling her mind with these lovely stories of finding a great man let me tell her the reality- men probably won’t want to be stepdad to your kids: there’s always someone younger, fitter and richer with more spare time. If your husband really is the man you say he is, he will get out of seeing the kids or use weaponised incompetence to make sure you do all the work. Alternatively, he’ll meet someone new, have a new baby and your child will be second best.

You will have to manage the household on your single wage, do every thing alone while you are happy families having a great time together all around.

So please, do what you will but know that MN ALWAYS tells people to LTB. If you suffer afterwards, that’s on you…

Ofcourseshecan
I know 100% he would HATE me for leaving and see it as me destroying him and he would do everything he could to make it as painful as possible. Every pick up, every weekend, every school play - he would make as difficult as possible. I am also the breadwinner and he would get every penny he could despite me doing 90% of housework and admin etc

OP, your reasons for staying are worse than your reasons for leaving!

I was trying to figure out my thoughts and this is them- he seemed okay until you said how he’d be if you left …

You’re obviously upset at how life has been since you LTB. Sorry it hasn’t been a bed of roses for you. But you are only going on your experience and scaring the OP with your misery is not helpful. No one has said you’re not allowed your opinion, they’ve disagreed and offered another one. OP has already said she’s got no real interest in finding a new man as well.

Im worried about hijacking OPs thread so i’ll leave it there. Again, sorry you don’t like your life. Not all single mums who do all the work feel the same as you though so can offer their perspective of being very happy with their choice to leave. 🤷‍♀️

Sorry OP, I’ll stop debating now. I hope you get things sorted and 2023 is a lovely year for you.

But you are doing all this grunt work now already under the same roof.

Also important to consider that these characters get progressively worse in behaviour as their fragile ego gets more and more bruised as they age and he will likely escalate his controlling and contemptuous behaviour towards you and also your DCs will have to live seeped under his toxic shadow.

So I’m not allowed to tell the truth because the truth might upset the OP? And take you off brand? It’s not “just” me that has had this experience, I know lots f single mums and most have some variation on this theme- maybe the dad sees the kids more often, maybe they have a couple of year long relationships but basically very similar to me.

There s no question that I love the kids and would do anything for them. But signing up for a life of poverty, chastity and hard labour was never on the agenda.

Op read every thread on mm about relationships and see for yourself how often the OP is advised to leave. Spoiler:-99% of the time

In your circumstances I would leave. Your dcs are still tiny and he's already being abusive. He doesn't make you happy.

Are you willing to waste 20 years of your life, lonely and unhappy, because he would make things difficult. Do you want your children to grow up thinking that's normal.

If you are sure, then you need to lance the boil.

But the OP has got all the grot work, all the caring for everyone, all the having to financially provide for herself, AND she has to put up with the disrespect, criticism, undermining and cringing misogyny. How is that better?

Single women getting more support and having a greater status in society is a different issue, and I agree with you. But putting up with shitty marriages isn't going to change that. If anything it feeds into the misogyny that is shoring up that whole mess.

I don’t really understand why you keep bringing step dads and new relationships into it when the OP has already said she isn’t interested in finding another relationship at the moment.

It is possible to be happy without a step daddy about you know.

As it happens I have a lovely relationship at present but it’s certainly not a step dad thing and never will be as neither of us have any desire to live with another person or marry. I’ve mostly been single as I prefer it that way, i’m a very independent person and don’t feel I need a man to be happy.

Single parenting for me has been a much different experience to yours although i’ve certainly struggled financially and with it being hard work at times. It’s also been amazing and fun and i’ve had some lent of opportunities. I don’t see it as modern slavery because my child does his age appropriate share of chores and I have dated as he’s got older - and nope there has not been an involved co-parent on the scene, it’s all been down to me.

Your single parenting experience sounds bleak as fuck and I feel sorry for you. But that doesn’t mean it’s the norm for everyone. I’ve had a great time overall and zero regrets or bitterness, despite having a right twat as a coparent. Most of my single parent mates are the same.

So that is MY experience. I give OP my viewpoint based on that. It’s the truth - as far as my experience goes. Yours is different, but not the norm in my experience. Most single parents I know are basically happy and definitely glad not to be with the ex.

But that's because women who start a thread about relationship issues have often reached a point where they're already contemplating a split; they're just checking their interpretation of significant ongoing problems they've been unable to solve in real life. You don't get someone posting on here to say they've just had an argument with their lovely DH about what to watch next on telly.

I’ve had a similar experience to you OP; I’ve been quite clear in my mind on my intentions to leave in the new year. In the summer I promised myself that I’d work at things and if it is no better in the new year I’d leave and now here we are but I’ve had a wobble over the Christmas period thinking maybe it’s not so bad but that’s what has kept me in this for so long: denial, our DC and that he’s not all bad.
Ive realised that he’s not going to change and he doesn’t really want to as our life suits him. I also realise this isn’t a good environment for my DC.
I do totally agree that it’s not all roses to leave but I already do 99% of everything and not having to do stuff for him would actually make my life easier.
I don’t really want to be alone forever but my far biggest fear is to still be in this same relationship in my 60s and for my DC to end up in a relationship like this thinking it’s normal

Well that certainly one narrative and I’m not saying over the last 10 years. I haven’t had some wobbly shitty moments however.

10 years after leaving the bastard, which I absolutely should’ve done 10 years earlier, so 20 years of my life down the fucking drain. Given some people only live for 20 years were absolutely tragic situation that is.

I am actually happy.

The kids did not live in poverty. They never were going to be in that situation because of me.
The bastard concerned did more parenting post, split than ever had whilst we were married. He paid child-support every month without fail.

I’ve dated some lovely men not that this is in anyway shape or form relevant because it’s not what the OP wants, I’m fit as fuck so I get a lot of younger men who would really like to spend their lives with me because I’m not gonna get pregnant and ruin theirs. You would be surprised at the younger generation plans for their lives, and generally speaking, it does not include replicating. Their parents dream of 2.4 kids and a life of sub servitude.
I haven’t found one yet, but neither has my ex nor many others i know so perhaps it’s just a case of you get fussier as you get older. Once you’ve survived one divorce, you’re pretty much invincible and you’re not gonna put up with any crap from anybody else. Male, female, romantic or friendships or indeed bosses.

it is extremely liberating

Is it always better to ltb? No it's not because relationships are complex and situations are infinitely variable. Also long term sometimes it may be preferable but short term it's going to make life far harder.

Many of us have been in ok relationships where life is perfectly tolerable, even good on balance but there is no romantic love anymore. But there's so much to weigh up and only you as an individual can work out if leaving is preferable for you, and crucially the timescale.

I split after a 20 year marriage which to be honest it was on life support for 8,9 years but life was perfectly good, it just wasn't love in the romantic sense. To be honest I could have continued because I had good friends, a lovely house and we had a great life together (holidays, day trips and there was romance at times) but he called time and I've since met an amazing man that makes me realise what I was missing. But I'm acutely aware it could have been very different, i could have been lonely and broke - and he is now lonely and regretful (he thought he wanted some fantasy and in reality he doesn't, I blame porn)

Enough of me though - op you need to do the soul searching for you and actually think out all the permutations