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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I really need some objective advice re dd

317 replies

stillvicarinatutu · 18/12/2022 21:14

I'm going to give the back story so no drip feed .

My dd is 25 , and I have a ds , 31.

My dh and I married at 19 and I left him when I was 42.

I had done everything at home , ds had meningitis and later dx with autism , I did 8 weeks alone in hospital, all the medical appointments, all the home admin , childcare, if the kids were ill it was my job to sort , I worked part time too. Dh worked ridiculously unsocial hours and I spent every single night of the marriage alone . Sex was shit and he has ED .

I left him at 42 , my ds had left home , my dd had started university. I was attracted to a man I worked with, but I wouldn't have an affair , I left in January. I started seeing someone else in March. By this time I had battled to get a full time job that paid because dh earned a pittance. I was the breadwinner and had been for 4 years.

I have no doubt this affected dd deeply although at the time I wasn't thinking straight - I was menopausal, restless, bored and sick of everything.

She dropped uni a year later and went home to her dad and the marital home. I was renting .

She was and is angry with me . I got pg with the man I was seeing at 44, dd seemed excited, but the baby had a fatal chromosome disorder and I terminated mid term which was really hard . My then partner was shit and no support. We weren't living together. We stayed together a short time and lived together for a while but he was increasingly abusive and I left .

I've lived alone for 3.5 years.
The problem is my relationship with dd. It's broken . We were extremely close - now it's strained.

She complains to her father that I don't do enough to see her .
Yet if I try , she's busy , if I say can I call , she's busy , if I ask to meet up , she's busy .

The guilt I felt from leaving means I did nothing about divorce or finances . Dd says since I left , I shouldn't get anything. Her father agrees. I paid 21 years of a mortgage, and I've paid 50k of debt off - mine and dhs- it's taken me 6 years. We had separate IVA and I paid both . (He couldn't afford it- I could )
This means he has stayed in the marital home .
He is now seeing another woman - fine - he is 56 and so is she , no plans to live together or marry etc .
I've now said it's time to divorce and sort finances . He's blown up at me - I left - I should have nothing . That's how he feels , and how my kids feel.
I've said I will not force a sale or make him homeless.
I'm looking at alternative solutions including me buying a park home on retirement so he can keep the house . As long as I aren't renting after retirement- I'm happy . I am currently renting .

I've become great friends with my neighbour and we do a lot for each other . We are spending Xmas day together, and going halves on dinner . She's goi g to be alone with her dd who is autistic, I'd be alone , her dd has asked if I can be there and since me and her mum get together every week anyway , for food and wine , we go out for the occasional drink, go shopping together, stuff mates do ! It's lovely . Her dad has virtually adopted me too ! It's nice .

Dd and ds are with their dad for Xmas day - so they were coming to me Boxing Day .

I've got their presents here to give them then .
Dd wanted a second Xmas dinner . That would be quite expensive and my lovely neighbour and friend suggested we do a big shop , go halves , and do a lovely Boxing Day buffet and have it at hers .

So I text dd asking what she thought.

Text back is horrible. Basically dd is saying "we wanted to see you since you never bother , I do t want to see your friend she isn't part of my life , so just forget it we will just come for an hour in the afternoon. "

I've text back - it was just a suggestion- no problem- we do t have to do that , we can stick to Xmas dinner here etc .

No reply then a curt reply saying stop texting me, I have a life you know , I'm out with (boyfriends parents ) .

I text back - are you free for a call later ?

Nothing back .

Her Xmas list consisted of expensive ugg slippers , she's buying a house so I got her a kettle and toaster, towels, personalised photo frame and Xmas bauble , stuff for her car , I've
Got her boyfriend a brew dog gift set , something for his car ,

I've got ds a silver key ring and a luxury travel wallet, and I'll be getting him some other bits this week .

He can't take much back to Asia with him where he lives . He doesn't carry luggage .

I live alone, I barely make ends meet . I've 2 more payments on dh iva then it's done , and 9 more on mine . I've not had my hair done in over a year , I've not my car serviced for 4 years, I shop at Aldi, -
And yet - I'm still the villain . I can buy the uggs etc , but when I dared suggest Boxing Day buffet with neighbour you'd think I'd suggested selling dds first born to the devil himself .
Now it appears she isnt even speaking to me.

I do not know how to heal this.
My own relationship with my mother is NC and has been for 25 years. I do t want that for me and dd - yet I cannot win . Everything I say , everything I suggest, is met with anger. I suggested counselling- nope.
Her dad is the bees knees of course .

Neither of the kids checked on me recently when I had pneumonia. Dd said she thought I was making it up. An ambulance was sent and I was on a nebuliser. They wouldn't come look after my dogs so I could go to hospital.

What the fuck do I do now ? I hate this . I'm constantly apologising. I'm constantly trying . I've asked her what she wants .
She seems to hate me .
I tried to speak with ds about the house etc and he went straight back to his dad and told him - then he said he does t want to be involved- fair enough.

But I cannot win . The only thing that would satisfy them all is if I go away , ask for nothing out of the house , give everything away , go quietly, rent for life , spend my pension on rent and then claim benefits (this is dh"s suggestion when I asked how I rent after retirement. )

I haven't done anything. I've asked nothing. And they are acting like this now - if I do press for some equity I dread to think what happens then . They barely tolerate me now .

I do not know what to do.

OP posts:
DuchessDandelion · 19/12/2022 09:31

Hi Vicar, I'm glad you seem to have recovered from your nasty illness, I've been thinking about you.

While the couple of posters who comment that your boxing day suggestion wasn't a great idea have a slight point, it wasn't such a big deal and I don't think they realise how unbelievably selfish and cruel your daughter was to you when you were begging for help because you were so ill.

I'm very glad to read that you're gearing up for divorce. Here are some facts you need to come to terms with:

Divorce gets nasty. You're not being nasty of course and in asking for your fair share you won't be, but your ex is going to pull every trick in the book to further cheat you out of your money and paint you as The Bad Guy.

You need to accept this, because I know you'll do anything to avoid it but as people have said you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Your daughter may continue to punish you, but with time and distance from the situation she will hopefully realise you've done everything right. She's behaving like a spoiled brat (I'm sorry for saying this) and needs to grow up - she will. A lot of life will happen in the next few years and her friends will marry and divorce, she'll learn.

Keep the door open but stop grovelling. She won't treat you with respect until you start treating yourself with respect.

Remember - children learn from their parents, it's time to show her a woman with self respect and independence.

Getting what you're entitled to in the divorce is absolutely crucial- not just for you, but for your children. Your ex is appalling with money and embarking on a new relationship (and hasn't he changed since he has!). The only way to protect your childrens inheritance is to ensure that you claim your share.

If your ex doesn't fritter it away, he may well end up diverting some to his new partner and their family. It happens.

Come on, Vicar. Put the issues with your dd to one side for a minute - how many times on MN have you seen this play out ?

Get a shit hot solicitor and take their advice. Get what you're entitled to.

You can't control what happens with your daughter, so start taking control of what's in your power and set her an example she will look back on and be proud of.

In order to continue being the consistent strength you have been, you need to start standing up for your rights. For their sake as much as yours.

Stop letting your daughter dictate your life. And please get some counselling when you can to let go of the worthless guilt you're dragging along with you.

luckylavender · 19/12/2022 09:34

You're trying too hard. Divorce your DH, get your fair share. And stop chasing her. After Christmas stop calling & texting & tell her why. As for the neighbour Boxing Day thing, I get it. That's awkward for her & it's not what I would have suggested.

Greatly · 19/12/2022 09:38

Sausagelove · 18/12/2022 21:29

Stop grovelling for a start. You don’t need to apologise for leaving an unhappy marriage.The finances are absolutely none of her business whatsoever. Don’t discuss this with her again. Get a solicitor and get the finances sorted. Don’t allow yourself to be financially abused.

You can not do anything about your dd. Personally I would leave her to it till she grows up a bit. Those messages are horrible.

Are second Christmas dinners a thing?

Exactly this.

Deadringer · 19/12/2022 09:47

I think you need to separate your financial situation from your relationship with dd. If you let your ex keep the house and live in your car it won't make any difference to how your she feels about you. In your shoes I would be looking for your share to ensure a reasonable standard of living for your retirement/old age, and then attempt to mend fences with your dc. As a pp said, dont grovel, but keep the lines of communication open as best you can, then it's up to her whether she has a relationship with you or not. If you used to be really close and she is a reasonable person there is every chance that you will reconcile at some point. Good luck.

Balloonsandroses · 19/12/2022 09:51

I agree that you need to prioritise your mental health. You may well find this helps your relationship with your DD too - if you’re struggling to do anything other than be in bed on days off you must be really low and no matter how well you think you’re doing at putting a brave face on it it’s going to affect your ability to interact with people (Having been there I know this all too well!). Please be careful with the wine too - it’s not good for your mental health and it is tough to be the daughter of someone who’s drinking too much - even if this isn’t the case now it’s a slippery slope.

ohioriver · 19/12/2022 12:01

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/debt-solutions/individual-voluntary-arrangements-ivas/before-you-start-an-iva/check-what-an-iva-is/

This is the citizens advice on an IVA. They are clear that it's with an individual - you are not responsible for paying your ex's. Please stop paying for this right now.

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 19/12/2022 12:53

Many many years ago my dear sister was treated very badly by my parents, she was the family scapegoat. She hated me, for many years into our adulthood she treated me with total contempt, and I took it because I felt sorry for what she had suffered, and guilty. Then I had my own child and to protect my DD from the contempt I stopped 'taking it' from my sister. Only then were we able to build a relationship and now have a fantastic closeness.

stillvicarinatutu · 19/12/2022 15:54

ohioriver · 19/12/2022 08:08

I don't think discussing the whys and wherefores of the Divorce will be helpful at this stage for vicar.

Sorry but I know just from on here that the man she left her husband for had a partner. A long term one. He wasn't married, but he did have a partner.

Her daughter is very angry about that. And she was 19. Everything is black and white when you're 19

And given that vicar doesn't want to address that for whatever reason, and wants to paint it as she didn't have an affair herself, trying to talk to her daughter about it is going to go down like a nuclear bomb.

Wrong !

The man I started seeing was divorcing, and in process of buying his own house as was his ex wife . He did not have a partner when we began a relationship, and I had been living alone 3 months .

OP posts:
GeneticallyModifiedGrump · 19/12/2022 17:51

ohioriver · Today 08:08

I don't think discussing the whys and wherefores of the Divorce will be helpful at this stage for vicar.

Sorry but I know just from on here that the man she left her husband for had a partner. A long term one. He wasn't married, but he did have a partner.

Her daughter is very angry about that. And she was 19. Everything is black and white when you're 19
Possibly things are black and white at 19 but by 25 you should be seeing shades of grey and not treating your mother like shit and holding her over a barrel?

stillvicarinatutu · 19/12/2022 21:50

Both iva are on the house - so if one defaults they'll just take it from the equity.

It's literally 2 more payments.

OP posts:
Onnabugeisha · 19/12/2022 22:16

stillvicarinatutu · 19/12/2022 21:50

Both iva are on the house - so if one defaults they'll just take it from the equity.

It's literally 2 more payments.

Yes, but equity will be split 50/50 (in most cases), so he will pay his half of the Iva one way or another. I’d stop paying the other one too then as well. Why pay 100% of the debt when only 50% would be taken from your half of the equity?

stillvicarinatutu · 19/12/2022 22:23

It's so near to finishing its
Not worth default now .

Then at least the equity is still there and the choices are ours to make in how to sort it .

OP posts:
millymollymoomoo · 19/12/2022 22:29

Haven’t read all the thread but

stop pandering to your dd
divorce e your rx
make sure you 100% take your fair share
if that means youre ex has to sell so be it- that’s his problem to solve for

let go of guilt
your dd is an adult and can make her own decisions- if she doesn’t like it, too bad

go rebuild your life and embrace it!

GenderCriticalTrumpets · 19/12/2022 22:43

Your ex is taking the fucking piss. Get legal advice, get the house sold and get everything owed to you. What DD thinks is all down to her dick head Dad dripping poison in her ear. Fuck your ex and if DD doesn't want to see you when you "force" him out of the home YOU have paid for then that's her choice.

GenderCriticalTrumpets · 19/12/2022 22:45

And I say this as someone who lost all their inheritance because of their cunt ex who has now turned my son against me by telling him total lies about me and his step dad. Fuck those men who don't have a single moral. Fuck em.

stillvicarinatutu · 19/12/2022 23:22

Dh is generally kind and a sweet placid soul .

This disruption isn't anything he asked for so while I will take legal advice I would stop short of forcing a sale . There must be other ways to sort this without hurting everyone.
Please try and understand that I'm not being a martyr, but I still care very much for my family and what happens to dh . He was very kind to me , without him I'd have been homeless twice now and he took me in both times . He's a decent person. He dotes on the kids and none of this was his doing - so I won't see him without .
I've set a president with the money situation so maybe he does forget I don't have to pay for both iva because I've done it for 6 years. I sorted them out and it was the best solution to get
Debt free and save the house .
Now anything I do will be seen as rocking the boat but I will take legal advice and see what the options are .

OP posts:
kittensinthekitchen · 19/12/2022 23:28

stillvicarinatutu · 19/12/2022 15:54

Wrong !

The man I started seeing was divorcing, and in process of buying his own house as was his ex wife . He did not have a partner when we began a relationship, and I had been living alone 3 months .

Are you not the original vicarinatutu then?

"it was reciprocal. he wasnt going to commit and is in a relationship already.
i left mine when i realised i had feelings for him. i walked away from a relationship of 27 years."

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/2416793-ive-been-up-all-night

stillvicarinatutu · 19/12/2022 23:59

Yes and read what you've written.

I left my marriage because I had feelings for someone else and I knew that morally it was the right thing to do .
I lived alone when I moved out .
I remained single . I dated a few men .
My future exes wife actually began divorce proceedings against the man I had feelings for for unreasonable behaviour. (Which I can now understand)

We began seeing each other then .

Later we lived together. That was a good 3 years after I left dh.

OP posts:
stillvicarinatutu · 20/12/2022 00:09

Nothing came of it , and nothing had actually happened- I was besotted with someone who was unavailable, but who had played me , I remained alone . That was the catalyst to my realising my marriage was dead in the water .
I could have just stayed with dh - but I didn't .

OP posts:
October2020 · 20/12/2022 00:13

I can't help but think you're spectacularly missing the point.

All of the finances and nonsense with your ex is nothing to do with your daughter and she shouldn't be aware of it, or involved in any of it.

You are playing the martyr with the 'I'm such a good mum' stuff. Sitting by a hospital bed for 8 weeks is traumatic, but it's also what mums do. It's what we have to do. The fact that your ex didn't step up (in your opinion, your kids may remember it differently) is your issue, not your kids.

You're now enmeshed with your next door neighbour's family (her dad's 'adopted' you, wtf?) so much so that you didn't pre-empt that your daughter really isn't going to want to spend her Christmas day with you with a random woman.

You need to go right back to the very basics to rebuild your relationship. Stop harassing her by text. Be consistent. Focus your messages on her, her life, not on all the drama in yours. Give her space and when she does come to you, make that your absolute priority. Do not discuss your issues with her. I would really recommend you start some therapy to process your stuff because it sounds like it is leeching into all the good relationships you have and that would be so unfair to you. Oh and stop judging her - if she wants Ugg Boots, and they're in the budget you would spend, buy them. If they're out of budget then contribute cash towards them. Don't try to control what you think she should be doing. Rebuild your relationship and she may then look to you for advice again but at the moment you need to be relentlessly open and positive and accepting.

stillvicarinatutu · 20/12/2022 00:20

Dd wasn't born when ds was ill.
Ds was 3 .
Neither will remember it. And I didn't just sit by a hospital bed for 8 weeks - I lived in a side room with ds for 8 weeks. With no support.

Dd probably doesn't even know about that . She came along 2.5 years later .

I've only tried to explain the finances when she has had a go about how badly done to her father has been .

She chose her side early on .

OP posts:
Endlesslaundry123 · 20/12/2022 00:23

She may not even know it, but what your daughter wants most is to see you as a strong, independent woman who she can look up to. The more you bend to your family's abuse, the more she is going to resent you because it's very hard to see your parent acting like a doormat. Stick up for yourself -- expect your fair share of the divorce settlement and stop feeling guilty about everything. Own what you did (left an unhappy marriage) apologise only where it's due and move on. Stop asking her like a scared puppy "if you can call" and just call! Stop asking her what she would like/tiptoeing around her and just say "right, can I take you for dinner Tuesday at 6 at X restaurant?" (I say this as a daughter of a mum who always asks me permission about everything little thing and tiptoes around me and doesn't follow through unless I decide EVERYTHING.... I hate it! Stop putting all that responsibility on me... If you want to spend time with me, make it happen...)

monsteramunch · 20/12/2022 00:25

I lived in a side room with ds for 8 weeks. With no support.

With respect, then your ex isn't as kind hearted as you say.

A fundamentally decent man wouldn't have witnessed you do this without massive support, so he can't be as kind hearted as you say. Frankly if a man does that, he really isn't that nice at all. And not a good dad.

Especially as there wasn't another child he was caring for full time for eswmple that made it hard for him to share duties or at least provide emotional support.

Your expectations of others are so low and those of yourself are so high.

October2020 · 20/12/2022 00:25

You're doing it again. We get it, you had a traumatic experience in hospital. So did I, for longer than 8 weeks combined. It's part of my motherhood experience. It's part of LOTS of people's motherhood experience. Go to therapy about it. Deal with what it has left you with. EMDR is incredible.

What PP has said about needing to be modelling strong independent woman is absolutely true. Children need to see strength from their parents - often at the expense of hiding our own weaknesses.

stillvicarinatutu · 20/12/2022 00:31

Ok thanks .

It wasn't just the 8 weeks though . It was everything after that too - every appointment, every scan , every therapy session, . I got threatened with the sack from my job because of the time I needed to take off (wasn't in police then ) .

But yes - all food for thought . I'm obviously getting it wrong now .

OP posts:
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