DW can't stand DD

[fredthemed]

Not sure what to do. DW is really nasty to 11yr old DD. DD does misbehave. DW thinks DD is exceptionally bad and has "betrayed her trust too many times". DW admitted she would be happier if DD left. She claims she loves DD but evidences this by saying she buys her nice clothes etc. DD said she wants to go far away from her mum. But she doesnt want to leave her younger sister who gets on fine with DW. DD is imo a fairly normal girl with a strong tendency towards play and fun and games and a hatred of hard work. DW is very strict about work and hates mindless and messy play. I get on ok with DW but find it very difficult living with the shouting and crying. DW things she has done nothing wrong and anyone would act the same as her. She would never accept parenting advice or therapy.

A parent that withholds meals from their child isn’t a parent having a tough time with a difficult child.

Its an abusive parent, there is no excusing that.

rarely not give her dinner She punishes her by not giving her food? That's so cruel and will give DD issues with food for life, the two things you should never use for punishment is food and sleep, it's bang out of order. Why aren't you standing up for your DD? Your wife sounds like a nasty piece of work..

It is difficult to fully understand what is going on, but if I were you I would at a minimum enforce family counselling. I would potentially look to get other external help to assess your family dynamics.

Growing up I was the golden child, my sister was the castaway "bad child". In reality my sister just wasn't gifted on the traditional subjects we were taught so she needed extra help. My dad was a "great" dad but he was away a lot and he trusted my mother's assessment of the situation. I always knew something was wrong, if my mother could not show my sister unconditional love what would prevent her from doing the same to me? So I focused on the academics and kept any issues to myself.

This has had a profound impact on mine and my sister's life. To cut the story short in the last decade my mother has stopped talking to all of us. It is now very clear she is a narcissist. I love my dad very much but do feel resent that he was so blind. A parent's job is to prioritise the well-being of their children. I am not saying your wife is a narcissist, I don't fully understand the dynamics. But I can tell you if my dad had addressed this by leaving my mum my sister would have had a much easier life, there has been a lot of suffering due to the insecurities my mother drove her to have. My sister and I are now relatively close, despite the wedge my mother fostered between us.

What's your daughter stealing exactly? Food? What's she lying about? Stealing food? A child that steals food is a starving child (Yes, in this context). Punishments linked to food deprivation for a child are just wrong, and like others have said, abusive.

The problem is that she will not seek guidance or parenting strategies for this kind of child. She needs to acknowledge that her way is not working and that she needs to adjust her parenting. What's the point of arguing over HW if she'll be mentally scarred from the treatment she gets.

Having a more placid older child seems to have made your DW resolute that it's the child not her fault. All children are different and you do have to parent them slightly differently. I read, How to talk so children listen and listen so children talk. I feel sorry for this child, her negative behaviour is probably for the attention she obviously craves.

If your wife and older child can't acknowledge their part in your DDs low self esteem then you might have to leave and take her with you.

As others have said your daughter is acting out because she is feeling lost and unwanted. Your daughter is stealing because it is one thing she feels she can control and because she is crying out for help and hoping someone will notice.

You need to leave your wife and take the children for the good of your family.

You have your DD's back??? You absolutely 100% do NOT or you'd be divorced now and living with your children away from her! Standing by and watching this makes you as culpable as your wife, don't kid yourself!

I feel really sorry for your DD, I'm not saying she's perfect but she's got a Mother who quite obviously doesn't like her and an older sister who joins in when the mother lays in to her, so a pile on basically. You say you have DDs back but have you really? Are you just a passive observer when this shit happens? You haven't actually said what you do when it all kicks off..

This advice is spot on.

I'm friends with adults who were your DD. They never get over being the scapegoated child. This is a heartbreaking situation in which your child is innocent. Even if she never did her hwk or stole from you, she is a child. Behaviour is communication.

Your wife probably has unmet needs of her own stemming from childhood. You may not be able to compel her to seek help, however, having brought your daughter into the world it is your responsibility to protect her.

TBH your wife thinking all her problems will be over if she removes your Dd is just kidding herself. If she is so rigid in her expectations then no one is safe from her anger

Your wife needs to have that scapegoat.

As a family you need therapy and testing for maybe dyslexia and adhd. But unless your dw can alter her own personality (she wants your 11year old to change her personality) then it is your wife that should leave.

Sometimes you can’t stop the facade from crumbling and you need to tear down the walls and shine a light onto your wife’s behaviour.
Your eldest needs to understand that if she leaves with her mother she is condemning herself to a life of masking and doing everything her mother wants and never being able to be herself. Her mother needs to direct her rage at someone and if she is anything less than perfect then she will start to get the same treatment as her sister.

Always have a place for her if things don’t work out

Ultimately you need to split up.

Can you oversee the homework instead?
That seems to be the trigger points. So try to see what are the trigger points and make some changes there.

Instead of telling DW what she's doing wrong, ask her what could be done to have a more harmonious happy household.
That the goal is not to me DD into the perfect child but to support everyone in the house in moving forward.

Seems like DW is channelling all her anger at life towards DD.

Why don't you suggest that both of you together go and talk to a family counsellor about how to cope with DD?

Make it a shared problem - because it is!!

You are 50% responsible as a parent. There's a problem in the dynamic in the family and that includes you.

In later years DD will resent you because you stood by and let her be treated like shit by her mother.

But splitting up the family where you get 'custody' of DD will just make things worse and DD will feel like she's responsible.

This is a good book. It's very easy to read. If you could get your DW to look at it.

www.bookdepository.com/How-to-Talk-so-Teens-will-Listen-and-Listen-so-Teens-will-Talk-Adele-Faber/9781853408571?redirected=true&selectCurrency=EUR&w=AFFPAU963HG1R4A8VT0G&gclid=CjwKCAiA7vWcBhBUEiwAXieItjKw46IlB9cyS2zAXKA4e9W7K5v7Cx3-p_uRZ_CGovxTdr38X8nUsxoC1GoQAvD_BwE

@fredthemed

What does she lie about?

How does she cheat?

What is she stealing?

Lying can be a defence mechanism. We need more information,

I grew up in the same dynamic.

Your dd's behaviour is irrelevant. Dc don't have to "earn" their parents not emotionally abusing them with good behaviour.

I think you need to ask her to leave and keep your dd safe. If your wife engages in family therapy it might be salvageable (it doesn't sound like she has a bond with your dd) but if she isn't then there is not much you can do but safeguard your dd and make sure she knows that she is good, worthy of love, and not responsible for her mother's abuse.

She'd be happier if her 11 year old left??? Geez that's terrible. I'm not sure where you go from here, but pretending this isn't abusive and allowing your wife to victim blame isn't going to help. Poor, poor girl.

She's a child for goodness sake why did your wife have children if she doesn't like the mess that comes with it?

Everyone suggesting this is reasonable because the 11-year-old's behaviour is bad so the mum is "at the end of their tether" is giving the impression they're a bad, potentially abusive parent themselves.

I'm baffled @fredthemed says she steals, but what sisters doll or the contents of local shops

I was the “difficult” child growing up. Abused by my mother whilst my dad stood idly by. It’s caused me no end of shit in my life. Don’t be that man OP.

You need to access professional help ASAP.

Your wife sounds absolutely awful. I understand that you've tried to improve the situation and protect your DD - but I think you've done as much as you can do, in your shoes I would probably have to end the relationship and take DD away. However, I would also fear that if your wife got 50:50 custody, then you wouldn't be there to try to protect DD while she is with your wife.

Thanks. Are you sure?

The person writes: "I get on ok with DW".

I worry about advice being given to vulnerable people who post on here. The people who write on here often cannot spell and have very low levels of literacy. Middle Eastern children write better English and express themselves better. Who knew!

So how can any of these people possibly offer professional advice?

Leave. Please leave.
Your daughter will have serious emotional issues for her entire life if you do not protect her from this abuse and neglect.
Withholding food is absolutely disgusting and if I knew who you were I would be reporting this to social services.
If you dont want to leave your wife then contact social services yourself and ask them to house your daughter with a loving family you will feed her, nurture her and show her affection.

You need to stop victim blaming.

I wonder what your wife's side of the story would be