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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

DW can't stand DD

303 replies

fredthemed · 17/12/2022 08:21

Not sure what to do. DW is really nasty to 11yr old DD. DD does misbehave. DW thinks DD is exceptionally bad and has "betrayed her trust too many times". DW admitted she would be happier if DD left. She claims she loves DD but evidences this by saying she buys her nice clothes etc. DD said she wants to go far away from her mum. But she doesnt want to leave her younger sister who gets on fine with DW. DD is imo a fairly normal girl with a strong tendency towards play and fun and games and a hatred of hard work. DW is very strict about work and hates mindless and messy play. I get on ok with DW but find it very difficult living with the shouting and crying. DW things she has done nothing wrong and anyone would act the same as her. She would never accept parenting advice or therapy.

OP posts:
daisychain01 · 17/12/2022 15:56

There must be a more coherent backstory than you've given in your 3 sparse posts.

DW admitted she would be happier if DD left.

Sorry? Your talking about your 11 year old child here - what was your response when your DW said that? Did you challenge the notion that an 11 year old child could "leave" , and where that child would go? Out in the streets?

DW will take away DD toys or, rarely not give her dinner.

Surely you would step in and give your daughter dinner and not allow her to be punished by withdrawing nutrients. This isn't the Victorian era you know.

sorry to say this but you sound gutless and passive reporting things your DW is doing but dripfeeding or withholding the complete story, you surely must know what actions to take on a practical level as that child's 2nd parent.

Octo5 · 17/12/2022 15:56

I wonder what your wife's side of the story would be

Would you want to hear her DH’s side of the story if the OP was female?

OP is obviously in an abusive relationship but like most abusive relationships it’s hard to see the reality and the wife has spun some crap about how damaging it would be for the kids if they separate.

daisychain01 · 17/12/2022 16:04

The OP needs a good kick up the backside. But then again I have a low threshold of tolerance for someone who'd sit back and watch a clear case of abuse going on, before their eyes, when there are practical actions they can do right now, and not enable the mother to get away with their appalling behaviour.

DarkSol · 17/12/2022 16:09

Holy fuck OP your wife is terrible and she is encouraging your child’s sibling to team up on them with her. If it is her own child and gotten this far I don’t think there is anything you can say or do. If you don’t really put your foot down and support your child it may result in some really deep scares and maybe even suicide. I’m not trying to scare you but this is a really serious situation! I strongly feel like your wife is psychologically abusing your daughter and once abusers reach this level you simply cannot fix them or change them. But I think you should still try so when the marriage does fall apart you can tell yourself you tried everything to save the marriage but it just didn’t work. But she needs to know the stakes are high.

Octo5 · 17/12/2022 16:10

The OP needs a good kick up the backside. But then again I have a low threshold of tolerance for someone who'd sit back and watch a clear case of abuse going on, before their eyes, when there are practical actions they can do right now, and not enable the mother to get away with their appalling behaviour.

Wow what a vile post!

Yes he should absolutely leave but that is a very difficult task when you are in an abusive relationship.

OP has said how his wife is nasty and doesn’t want her DD yet there are still posters saying they need the wife’s side and implying he’s lying or it’s not too bad.
So what are the chances that he’s going to get full custody? Probably pretty low.

Therefore he’s got to choose between staying in the marriage and being involved and being able to protect his children to a certain extent vs her having full custody or stopping him from seeing them at all, so not being able to protect them at all and then the girls pay the price.

Handyweatherstation · 17/12/2022 16:11

daisychain01 · 17/12/2022 16:04

The OP needs a good kick up the backside. But then again I have a low threshold of tolerance for someone who'd sit back and watch a clear case of abuse going on, before their eyes, when there are practical actions they can do right now, and not enable the mother to get away with their appalling behaviour.

Same here. His daughter is slowly being destroyed by someone who should love her, but he's too concerned with his 'good guy' image to do anything to help her. Spineless coward.

Motownop · 17/12/2022 16:26

This is awful. I can't believe that you would allow this to happen

daisychain01 · 17/12/2022 16:27

Octo5 · 17/12/2022 16:10

The OP needs a good kick up the backside. But then again I have a low threshold of tolerance for someone who'd sit back and watch a clear case of abuse going on, before their eyes, when there are practical actions they can do right now, and not enable the mother to get away with their appalling behaviour.

Wow what a vile post!

Yes he should absolutely leave but that is a very difficult task when you are in an abusive relationship.

OP has said how his wife is nasty and doesn’t want her DD yet there are still posters saying they need the wife’s side and implying he’s lying or it’s not too bad.
So what are the chances that he’s going to get full custody? Probably pretty low.

Therefore he’s got to choose between staying in the marriage and being involved and being able to protect his children to a certain extent vs her having full custody or stopping him from seeing them at all, so not being able to protect them at all and then the girls pay the price.

What planet are you on?

obviously Planet Abuse by the sounds of it.

HamBone · 17/12/2022 16:35

Right, OP, it's time to take action and put a stop to this. Sit down with your wife (without your DD's present, go out for a meal if necessary) and lay it on the line.

The current situation is intolerable, her behavior is unacceptable. She must agree to counselling right away (pay for it, don't wait) or you'll have no choice but to ask her to leave the family home to protect your children.

No negotiations, it's counselling or your marriage is over.

DarkSol · 17/12/2022 16:41

HamBone · 17/12/2022 16:35

Right, OP, it's time to take action and put a stop to this. Sit down with your wife (without your DD's present, go out for a meal if necessary) and lay it on the line.

The current situation is intolerable, her behavior is unacceptable. She must agree to counselling right away (pay for it, don't wait) or you'll have no choice but to ask her to leave the family home to protect your children.

No negotiations, it's counselling or your marriage is over.

Honestly the entire family needs counseling. The “golden” child is probably a bully at school or something. Everything is completely off balance.

HamBone · 17/12/2022 16:43

@DarkSol I agree, but he should start with making it clear to his wife that the situation will definitely change.

DarkSol · 17/12/2022 16:44

HamBone · 17/12/2022 16:43

@DarkSol I agree, but he should start with making it clear to his wife that the situation will definitely change.

You have a point. The wife’s behaviour is definitely top priority at the moment.

BatshitBanshee · 17/12/2022 16:46

Your DD acts out because your wife is fucking horrid. I'd march her into counselling and make it very clear that she either smartens up and behaves herself and starts being a decent parent!!!!! or you're out - and mean it.

If not, she deserves every single thing coming to her in life. Your daughter's first bullies are her mother and her sister.

thewayround · 17/12/2022 16:48

All wasted advice

this has been going on for years

the OP is a spineless negligent parent

might as well sign post this poor child to the stately homes thread now

IncompleteSenten · 17/12/2022 16:57

It's awful isn't it? When you know how this poor child is going to be screwed up and the people who should be protecting her are the ones damaging her.

Then in years to come they'll inevitably turn round and be so upset and have no idea why she struggles or why she (hopefully) removes them from her life and they never meet her kids or why the siblings have no relationship due to growing up golden child and scapegoat

Octo5 · 17/12/2022 17:10

All wasted advice

this has been going on for years

the OP is a spineless negligent parent

Any women who stays in an abusive relationship when there are kids involved is just as bad as the abuser himself.
I agree with you there.

But we know that there are often circumstances that make it difficult to leave.

That is no different in this situation and in fact the fact that OP is a man makes it worse as he has to prove to a judge that he needs full custody.
Most abusers are clever/sly and proving the abuse can be very difficult.

Instead of slagging off the OP why not give some suggestions on how he can kick his wife out or get full custody of the DC?

thewayround · 17/12/2022 17:13

Octo5 · 17/12/2022 17:10

All wasted advice

this has been going on for years

the OP is a spineless negligent parent

Any women who stays in an abusive relationship when there are kids involved is just as bad as the abuser himself.
I agree with you there.

But we know that there are often circumstances that make it difficult to leave.

That is no different in this situation and in fact the fact that OP is a man makes it worse as he has to prove to a judge that he needs full custody.
Most abusers are clever/sly and proving the abuse can be very difficult.

Instead of slagging off the OP why not give some suggestions on how he can kick his wife out or get full custody of the DC?

Because he won’t.

read the OP. It screams passive, easy life, doesn’t like to witness it but 🤷‍♀️ not prepared to say or do anything after years of witnessing it.

MilkyYay · 17/12/2022 17:30

This is difficult with examples and possibly cultural details.

Dw sounds like my friend who is a (self described) "chinese tiger mom"

KettrickenSmiled · 17/12/2022 17:39

So what are the chances that he’s going to get full custody? Probably pretty low.

Therefore he’s got to choose between staying in the marriage and being involved and being able to protect his children to a certain extent vs her having full custody or stopping him from seeing them at all, so not being able to protect them at all and then the girls pay the price.

No he doesn't. Those are not his only choices at all.
He could choose to protect his children.
Start working with agencies, the school, a therapist.
Get their home life documented, get concrete evidence of abuse.
Then divorce, & go for custody.

BOTH (or all 3? hard to work it out from one of the updates) DC need protection. Golden Children don't fare better than Scapegoats in later life - sometimes a lot worse. She's ganging up on her young sister because the entire family is in a coercively controlling relationship with the mother, & this is all she knows - it's a survival tactic.

But I doubt he will do anything. He hasn't even been arsed to come back to his own thread. Possibly because PP are urging him to take action, & that's not something he's prepared to do.
He's already said he "gets on" with his wife.
So he's an enabler.
I'm not even convinced this is real now - there is no urgency or despair for his DC coming off his posts.

MichelleScarn · 17/12/2022 17:43

Biscuits1011 · 17/12/2022 15:15

Of course. Withholding food isn’t ok. But.. I bet she isn’t actually doing that, I bet we are not getting the full picture here.

Show quote history

Would you say that with regards to a woman posting about an abusive man? "Hmmm bet he's not actually doing that"...

KettrickenSmiled · 17/12/2022 17:48

BatshitBanshee · 17/12/2022 16:46

Your DD acts out because your wife is fucking horrid. I'd march her into counselling and make it very clear that she either smartens up and behaves herself and starts being a decent parent!!!!! or you're out - and mean it.

If not, she deserves every single thing coming to her in life. Your daughter's first bullies are her mother and her sister.

Well yeah - but you'd be insane to march an abuser to counselling.
For a start - they are likely to refuse, because there's nothing wrong with them, everyone else is at fault.
Or - they will go, & co-opt the entire process to ensure they manipulate everyone, including the counsellor, into accepting their narrative - that they are a blameless, put-upon victim, & everyone else is at fault.
Soon the entire sessions will be taken up with her dictating what everybody needs to do to ensure HER needs are met & SHE gets everything her own way.
Abusers are usually expert DARVO'ers & gaslighters.

This is why professional therapists advise never to go to couples counselling when one of the pair is abusive.

Further - in OP's shoes I would NOT be tipping the wink to the abuser than I was planning to leave. She might not want her daughter, but she won't want the social consequences of 'losing' her. I'd start working with agencies to evidence the abuse, & as soon as I had enough to back me up legally, I'd take all the kids the hell away from this woman.

If OP is for real - he needs to contact a men's domestic abuse service - www.mankind.org.uk/

Octo5 · 17/12/2022 18:37

But I doubt he will do anything. He hasn't even been arsed to come back to his own thread. Possibly because PP are urging him to take action, & that's not something he's prepared to do.

Fortunately, you must have never been in an abusive relationship.
For those of us who understand abuse more, starting a thread like this can be very difficult but it is a positive first step.

It is even more difficult to leave.
Especially if it means taking your DCs who love their mum (regardless of abuse) away from her.
Abusers will manipulate their partner to think that breaking up the family is the worst thing they can do.

I’ve lost count of how many women in abusive relationships start threads on here after dealing with abuse for years.
They also have a million excuses as to why they can’t end the relationship.

It is frustrating but getting angry at the victim is just going to make them leave the thread.

DarkSol · 17/12/2022 18:57

It’s frustrating for me to read these comments as the child of an abuser because I know how insanely manipulative the smart ones can be. You really just cannot wrap your brain around how complicated and entangled things get unless you’ve lived it. Seeing things from the outside is not enough. The stakes can be very high. For instance when my sister tried to leave her abusive husband he literally triggered her PTSD (she’s a military vet) on purpose started a fight with her then called the police in tears and had her arrested. Luckily there was evidence in her case as her daughter recorded the entire thing with her phone through the crack of her bedroom door but if it had not been filled she would probably be in prison. The judgement is insane but I understand. It’s hard feeling like you can’t do anything. But sometimes watching and waiting for the right opportunity is the only safe option. And that’s really really hard for a lot of people to admit. It’s definitely not the ideal option. But sometimes it’s the only option or at least it can feel like the only option for many people. For women there are DV shelters but for men? Not much for them to work with if they have no familial support.

KettrickenSmiled · 17/12/2022 19:07

Fortunately, you must have never been in an abusive relationship.
😂😂😥
If I detailed the abuse I've survived - both familial & spousal - you'd lose your lunch @Octo5.

For those of us who understand abuse more
Riiiight .... let me help you out here ... "For those of us making assumptions about other PP's"

Especially if it means taking your DCs who love their mum (regardless of abuse) away from her.
Which is why I've outlined the steps he needs to take to protect his DC & get them away from their mother. Twice.

DarkSol · 17/12/2022 19:13

KettrickenSmiled · 17/12/2022 19:07

Fortunately, you must have never been in an abusive relationship.
😂😂😥
If I detailed the abuse I've survived - both familial & spousal - you'd lose your lunch @Octo5.

For those of us who understand abuse more
Riiiight .... let me help you out here ... "For those of us making assumptions about other PP's"

Especially if it means taking your DCs who love their mum (regardless of abuse) away from her.
Which is why I've outlined the steps he needs to take to protect his DC & get them away from their mother. Twice.

You clearly still have a lot of healing to do. I’m sorry you went through that. It sounds like you have not forgiven yourself. That doesn’t make it okay to project that onto others though. Even if that person is a man.