Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is it an overreaction to leave in these circumstances?

195 replies

SomePerspectivePlease · 11/12/2022 01:37

I need to know if I'm overreacting here and would like some perspective from others please.

My husband and I have a very rocky marriage, and it is mostly my fault. Not affairs/drugs/drink/debt or anything like that. It's issues with my personality and the unhealthy way I think. It's taken me a long time to see the truth about what I'm like, and the damage I've done.

We argue a lot, and things have been particularly bad this year. My husband has also had a lot of additional, work-related stress that is completely separate to our relationship, but has really taken a toll on him.

What I need help with is what's happened tonight. We had a argument. He is, quite rightly, angry with me about many things. In this instance I don't think I was in the wrong, and it was getting out of hand.

Regardless - our baby was asleep in her nursery. He was shouting, and I asked him repeatedly to please stop in case he woke her. He refused. Our baby has been ill this week with vomiting and a fever, and has been awake a lot the last three nights, so she's unwell and very tired. At the height of our argument, and amidst me begging him to lower his voice, he went and kicked her bedroom door to wake her on purpose, then said "That's a taste of your own medicine for you."

Now, I take full responsibility for the problems in our marriage. He has every right to be angry with me, and if/when we break up, it will be my fault.

But what he did tonight is, I think, unforgivable. He intentionally did something cruel and spiteful towards our baby to get back at me. He has form for being petty, and straying into the milder forms of physical abuse (if there is such a thing) when angry, but never directed at our DD. I can't quite believe he did it, really. He will say that it shows how far I have pushed him.

Is it a complete overreaction to leave him over this? Even though almost all of our problems are down to me?

He has fought for our relationship the entire time we've been together, and his willingness to give me chance after chance that I didn't deserve to fix our problems has been the only thing keeping us together for years. I have not worked hard enough to sort these things out, and he's right on the edge of saying enough's enough. I don't blame him, and wouldn't have stayed this long if our positions were reversed.

But I don't know if I can continue in a marriage where I know that he has it in him to do something cruel to our DD to upset me, even when his anger is my fault.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

OP posts:
pinneddownbytabbies · 11/12/2022 11:41

OP, your posts make me feel so sad for you. It seems to me that he has spent so many years criticising you, that you have now lost all sense of self, and genuinely believe that his aggression, moods and anger are all your fault. You constantly try to 'fix' yourself, and feel that you are failing all the time. You are therefore putting up with this constant abuse, for that is what it is.

This is such an unhealthy dynamic. You are not responsible for making him angry, only he is responsible for his bad temper.

I think it would be very useful for you to speak to your GP about this, and ask for some counselling. Not joint relationship counselling, but for yourself, on your own. You need to be able to talk all this out with someone who can look at the situation objectively, and help you find a way forward.

newplanneeded · 11/12/2022 11:42

Before meeting H I bumbled along thinking I was an alright person. He’s shown me I have the potential to be great, but am actually being awful. He hasn’t taken any pleasure in doing so. It’s broken his heart, actually. He desperately wants me to sort my shit out so I can have a good life and we can have a happy future together.

wow he completely manipulated and gaslit you.

whatever made-up faults he tries to attribute to you, nothing is worse than his own abuse of his child.

freedom program, and LTB. and find support in real life. anyone you can talk to?

Whiskeypowers · 11/12/2022 11:49

Cwcwbird · 11/12/2022 10:25

He reacts logically?? Does he now? The man who refused to stop shouting and deliberately woke your baby up?

You can't take criticism? And yet you are insanely self critical in your posts.

I think there's a distinct possibility this man has done a number on you. You need to explore the possibility you are being abused. Speak to women's aid in confidence or find some online resources.

More or less what I came on here to write

You seem to have a remarkable insight into York self that has overspilled into sled loathing bit it’s being used to demean and criticise you to the point your husband is straying into physical abuse and using your baby as some sort of collateral.

it also never ceases to amaze me how many posters are quick to prescribe toxicity as the root of the problem even in the face of knowing this man has started to hurt her.

many abusive men inflict this sort of coastal erosion and then appear to want to fight for their family and relationship. There is sadly often a reason for it that is ultimately more to do with ulterior motives

my advice to you is to leave and to consider approaching and unpicking the impact of HID behaviour upon you with professionals not the man himself.

your baby needs to be kept safe and so do you. He prefers to stay and inflict this on you both rather then leave and the reasons for this are not because he’s a family man

Whiskeypowers · 11/12/2022 11:50

Apologies for the typos hope you get the gist

America12 · 11/12/2022 11:55

I'm thinking a lot of the faults and flaws you have are ones he's told you that you have.

Alcemeg · 11/12/2022 11:57

Cwcwbird · 11/12/2022 10:25

He reacts logically?? Does he now? The man who refused to stop shouting and deliberately woke your baby up?

You can't take criticism? And yet you are insanely self critical in your posts.

I think there's a distinct possibility this man has done a number on you. You need to explore the possibility you are being abused. Speak to women's aid in confidence or find some online resources.

Spot on. Perfectly put.

OP, please ignore the posters who are talking as though you're equally to blame for this horrible situation. Remember that a lot of people skimread MN on their phone while doing something else, and may not be paying full attention.

Anyone who understands what it's like to actually be in a relationship with an abusive man can see that that's what's happening to you. It's as plain from your posts as it would be if a child came running up in the street and said "That man just offered me sweets to get into his car."

He has, as other PPs have noted, done a proper number on you. I'm going to have a think about your "list of terrible sins" and will be back in a while.

I hope there is somewhere safe you can go today. Flowers and I know that the main obstacle to that is you thinking that you're overreacting and turning a perfectly sensible situation (from his point of view) into a pointless drama, creating more problems for your lovely husband, who just wishes you could finally get a grip on all these character defects that keep messing up your potentially wonderful life together.

Go! Go now! You are underreacting. You are in the grip of a monster. Go.

VisaGeezer · 11/12/2022 12:04

Abuser script.

He's full of shit.

He's brain washed you.

He's abusive towards you and your little child

Ain't no fixing people like him.

Itsokay2020 · 11/12/2022 12:04

OP, none of us are perfect, we shouldn’t even attempt to be. His constant assassination of your character has left you actually believing him, it’s desperately sad. Furthermore, why does he think he has the right to change who you are?

Are you able to list three of your strengths? What are you good at? When was the last time he paid you a compliment? When did you last laugh, without inhibition? Was it when you were with him? These are all the questions, and more, that you should be asking yourself.

A healthy relationship includes making the other person feel good about themselves (of course, it works both ways) and rather than focus on their faults and foibles (we all have them!) it’s about appreciating them and demonstrating this in our actions and through the use of positive language.

Are you using language towards him that suggests you give up and are ready to walk away? I ask because he sounds like a desperate man if he’s now using your child as a pawn.

Can you go and stay with family, friends? You need time away from this, to clear your head, to feel free and to be empowered to function as an adult without constant criticism.

In answer to your question, you absolutely should leave, I don’t think staying is an option right now. Please start making plans to leave, you owe it to yourself and your child. Please end the cycle of toxicity and abuse and for the sake of your child

beastlyslumber · 11/12/2022 12:17

This is so, so sad to read.

Your husband has gaslit and brainwashed you into believing you are in the wrong for having normal personality traits. The reason it took you so long to "realise" what a "toxic" person you are is because it took him that long to get right inside your head.

Meanwhile, he is emotionally and physically abusive towards you and your child.

Please, please, please leave this man. Once you're away from him, you will begin to realise who the toxic abusive person in your relationship really was.

fdgdfgdfgdfg · 11/12/2022 12:20

I'd be leaving him just for the door kicking, but I'd also be worrying a lot less about your own issues. Most of them sound like just being Human.

Did you feel so shit about yourself before this relationship, because I think he's done this to you on purpose.

Notaninterestingfact · 11/12/2022 12:20

With your further clarification, there is no doubt in my mind now that you are not the problem. Even if you were 'unmotivated', 'sensitive' or 'lazy', he would have no right whatsoever to control you, to motivate you, to correct you or to criticise you. He's not your boss! You're not a child.
However, I firmly believe that you are none of those things. A badgering cunt in the background, wearing you down with constant 'motivation' (aka verbal and emotional abuse) would be enough to have the entirely opposite effect on any normal person. You start to believe them.

Your life, how you manage it, what you do with it is your business. There is nobody in this world who should have the power to control you or dictate to you.

He sounds like a very nasty, controlling and abusive man. He's nothing new. He is utterly typical of them. He's not exceptional. He is just like every single abusive twat out there. As these predictable bellends are so utterly unimaginative, I can tell you how this story will go as they all follow the same old pattern. They're not unique or special, even in their abuse.

He will break you. He will wear you down. You're already shattered.

The good news is that there is a way of changing the ending. I'm pretty sure you know what that is. Is it easy to leave a man when you have a newborn? Hell no! It's not easy. You will need emotional support in order to have the courage and strength to leave and to have the courage and strength to ensure that is a permanent departure. Your confidence is probably at an all time low. You are fully convinced that you're useless. Are you? No you're not. There are agencies which can help you. Therapy to rebuild yourself will be critical.

Call Women's Aid. They're difficult to get through to. Calling them doesn't require you to be ready to leave at the end of the phone call though. It's the beginning. They will help you with a plan. You can take it at your own pace (unless you or your baby are in danger, in which case, you need to act with urgency).

If you like, there are steps we can help you with. Packing an emergency bag for you and your baby. Reporting this incident to the police, getting their advice, getting support from friends and family, organising accommodation etc. etc.

I hope that you do decide to change this story. There can be a happy ending. Life is a journey. Sometimes the road can be rocky. Don't let him write the ending.

I really do feel that I need to emphasise to you though that as these predictable twats are completely unoriginal, this violence will escalate. It will become more frequent and more severe. While there is time to take planned steps, you also need to be prepared to have to act immediately if things are in danger of escalating rapidly. Your life could well become endangered so the faster you can move with this the better.

CKL987 · 11/12/2022 12:23

If what you are saying about you making your husband's life difficult is correct then maybe he reached his limit and his response was to punish you but didn't have the mental capacity to recognise the impact on your child at the time. This is in no way a defence of his behaviour as nobody should do that.
Sounds life if you aren't already in couples counselling you need it. Even if you are making changes now your past behaviour will have impacted your husband and there may be resentments there. If you are to move forward together there might be external help needed.

Shayisgreat · 11/12/2022 12:29

I think couples counselling might be dangerous in the op's situation.

Go to individual counselling, ltb, and give yourself and your child a chance at a happy life.

I'm a social worker. I see dynamics like this all the time and it is not going to get better.

Notaninterestingfact · 11/12/2022 12:33

You're a very articulate lady so I'm sure that you are not as stupid as he would like you to think. Use that intelligence. Believe in yourself.

This is a good speech. It's actual motivation. Not abuse dressed up as motivation. 😉

Whiskeypowers · 11/12/2022 12:35

CKL987 · 11/12/2022 12:23

If what you are saying about you making your husband's life difficult is correct then maybe he reached his limit and his response was to punish you but didn't have the mental capacity to recognise the impact on your child at the time. This is in no way a defence of his behaviour as nobody should do that.
Sounds life if you aren't already in couples counselling you need it. Even if you are making changes now your past behaviour will have impacted your husband and there may be resentments there. If you are to move forward together there might be external help needed.

You don’t go for counselling with the man who is abusing you.

Candlesoftime · 11/12/2022 12:38

Please leave.

I found this really upsetting to read, thinking of your poor baby feeling ill and then scared by the loud noise as an angry man purposefully woke her up. I feel for you too, please get your baby to a place where she can feel calm and safe.

Persipan · 11/12/2022 12:38

I've read your update with a list is all the things that (he's told your) are so terrible, and you know what? There. Is. Nothing. Wrong. With. You.

I am absolutely furious on your behalf at mister 'let me correct your faults using my superior logic, and aren't you lucky I'm working so hard at the task' and the absolute number he's done on you.

It's textbook gaslighting, but I can see how hard it is for you to see that. You said yourself, though, that he's been physically abusive, so they're is absolutely zero doubt that your relationship is an abusive one. I know it probably feels like everyone is misunderstanding you because you really feel there are all these awful things about you, but what if we're right and you're not actually a terrible failure of a person?

2pinkginsplease · 11/12/2022 12:49

I’m sure many of us on here can relate to your list of “faults” I know I don’t take criticism very well and I verbally lash out if someone does it. I also suffer from self doubt which can affect aspects of life, I’m sure other relate too.

however our partners and dh do not use it as a weapon against us , they love and support us. Your relationship is supposed to make you a stronger person, does anyone else have the same complaints against you?

you deserve better, as the others say he is playing on your weaknesses and making you self doubt. Please leave.

VisaGeezer · 11/12/2022 12:55

Call Women's Aid. They're difficult to get through to.

They also have an online chat service.

VisaGeezer · 11/12/2022 13:02

Candlesoftime · 11/12/2022 12:38

Please leave.

I found this really upsetting to read, thinking of your poor baby feeling ill and then scared by the loud noise as an angry man purposefully woke her up. I feel for you too, please get your baby to a place where she can feel calm and safe.

Yeah it's a type of child abuse.

I didn't even need to wait for ops list of "faults" to know who is the villain here. His behaviour to a small, vulnerable, ill child tells you what you need to know about him.

Notaninterestingfact · 11/12/2022 13:03

VisaGeezer · 11/12/2022 12:55

Call Women's Aid. They're difficult to get through to.

They also have an online chat service.

That's really good to know and useful to the OP to know. I hope that didn't come across as me discouraging the OP from calling them.

Notaninterestingfact · 11/12/2022 13:07

The wrong one will find you in peace and leave you in pieces. The right one will find you in pieces and lead you to peace.

The "right one" doesn't have to be a new man. The right one can be friends, organisations and family.

Notaninterestingfact · 11/12/2022 13:11

This is from women's aid.

www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/the-survivors-handbook/print-and-audio-versions/

Notaninterestingfact · 11/12/2022 13:12

This is a link to the printed version.

www.womensaid.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Full-Survivors-Handbook-English-2009.pdf

Alcemeg · 11/12/2022 13:14

OK so here is my essay 😊

First and most important: You are not “abusing each other” as PPs have said. Please don’t let careless comments like that feed into your self-doubt.

Before meeting H I bumbled along thinking I was an alright person.
Hmmm, I bet you did! And I’m sure you were, and always remain, a perfectly alright person.

I tend towards protecting myself during marital disputes rather than trying to take on board constructive criticism, listen to H’s feelings, understand the problems and work on a solution. So, the mature, respectful approach. Instead I usually try to justify my actions and seek to show why I’m not at fault.
Your approach would be perfectly rational if indeed, as I suspect, your actions are perfectly reasonable (to any normal human) and you have to swallow a whole crock of shit to start seeing them as problems. We all defend ourselves against unfair accusations. That's only healthy.

When you are listening to H’s feelings, how much does he listen to yours?

A loving relationship is based on mutual respect.

How often does he say you’re right? How often does he say he’s sorry? Is he sorry for what happened last night? (Any normal H would not have done it in the first place, but if they had, they would be down on their hands and knees begging for forgiveness this morning.) Does he understand your feelings about it?

I’m not reliable. I say I’ll do things, and then don’t. I forget/don’t get around to it.
Could this be because deep down, you know it’s bullshit?

I don’t communicate very well at times which is frustrating for him.
Could this be because there’s not much point, because he never understands you or gives any weight to your thoughts and feelings? Could it be because you dread conflict, and you talking to him about anything at all that doesn’t follow his script (accepting your place in the dog box) rapidly escalates out of control? Could it be that you are frightened of his reaction when things do escalate?

I tend to go with my heart, rather than my head. So I tend to have emotional responses based on how I feel, rather than more logical reactions based on the facts of what actually happened. H is the latter.
Ahhh, I know this one all too well. The logic. The feeling that you need to defend yourself in a court of law, otherwise you’re just wasting his time. I remember how coldly the “facts” were always laid out to me.
You know what I eventually learned? That feelings – especially your own feelings! – are very important and should never be trumped by “logic”. Belittling and ignoring them, or allowing someone else do that, is a surefire way to lose touch with your own inner compass. Which is, of course, exactly what he wants.

I hold onto resentments, which skews current events in my head.
You cling to the faint and fading understanding of what really happened, and deep down you know his version is wrong even though you feel powerless to do anything about it.
And by the way, the very language you’re using (e.g. “current events”) tells a story in itself. It shows how dissociated you have become from everything that's happening to you.

I’m oversensitive.
Oooohhhh, let me guess. He says this a lot, especially when you are upset by the fact that nothing going on in your relationship makes any sense and you are distressed by the depressing, sometimes terrifying, situation you find yourself in. Part of you knows that his “constructive criticism” is just a form of bullying. Your heart knows what’s really going on.

What would happen if YOU accused HIM of being oversensitive? If you accused him of overreacting? If you told him that life would be a lot easier if he treated you with respect and understanding? Have you tried saying these things to him and it didn’t go well? Or daren’t you even try?

How often do you feel sick and shaky about conflicts in the home? Do you have the perpetual feeling that if only you could explain things better, things would magically be OK because he would finally understand? He will never understand you, OP, because that's the last thing he ever wants to do. The last thing he will ever do is let you believe that your version of things makes sense. Because the day you understand that is the day you kick this monster out of your life.

I stick my head in the sand about problems rather than tackle them. I just hope they’ll go away, or he’ll decide to stop being bothered by them. Which is selfish and unfair or me. And immature.
Are you sure it’s unfair of you? You see, if he is just kicking up a fuss about nonsense, it’s perfectly reasonable for you to hope he just stops being such a wanker. Unfortunately he won’t, because he literally enjoys making your life a misery. It’s probably because you are so bright and capable that he has to keep putting you down, otherwise you might work things out for yourself and leave him, and then he would lose the pleasure of tormenting you. The “unhealthy way you think” is actually healthy and right. You only doubt it because he has been gaslighting you for years.

He’s shown me I have the potential to be great, but am actually being awful. He hasn’t taken any pleasure in doing so. It’s broken his heart, actually. He desperately wants me to sort my shit out so I can have a good life and we can have a happy future together.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall for his amateur dramatics (and I bet he calls YOU the drama queen!). Broken his heart, my arse. If he desperately wanted you to “sort your shit out” he would be loving and supportive, encouraging you to do things, instilling you with confidence. No, he desperately wants you to think there is something wrong with you that’s causing all the increasingly seismic problems in your relationship. There is no happy future with someone like this, who thrives on chaos and drama because it confuses you enough to keep you under his control.

He has form for being petty, and straying into the milder forms of physical abuse (if there is such a thing) when angry, but never directed at our DD. I can't quite believe he did it, really. He will say that it shows how far I have pushed him.
I’d love to know who persuaded you that his forms of physical abuse are “milder” – but I can guess. Luckily, there is still a part of you that knows the truth; it’s the tiny remains of yourself that added “(if there is such a thing)”. Carefully enclosed in brackets, just the way you have learned to manage all your thoughts and emotions with him because it isn’t safe to let them out.

He's a vicious bully, but the good news is that in ramping things up a notch by involving your child, he has made a stupid mistake. Because you can accept anything he says and does to you, but you are rightly protective of your baby. Use that understanding to get out. If you can’t do it for yourself, because you are so worn down and feel so worthless, just focus on doing it to protect her. Over time, you will heal from this relationship and one day you will go back to happily “bumbling along thinking you’re all alright person” because guess what? – you are.

I was married for a long time to someone similar, and like you I just went along with his version of things because resistance of any kind made life intolerable. It’s taken me many years to heal, but a quarter of a century later I married again. This time to someone who has never said an unkind word to me. Who prioritises even my trivial needs (e.g. will remember to record Strictly Come Dancing for me 😊). Who would hate to see me cry (my ex-DH thrived on it).

When I first met him, he said it was important to treat a woman like a precious flower, nurturing her so that she can bloom. I couldn’t imagine that anyone would want to do that, but here we are and he does and it’s been like that for almost a decade.

Can you imagine that? Can you imagine having absolutely no fear about saying whatever you like to your H because he will never be cross with you and always respects your feelings and wants the best for you and supports you and always tells you you’re amazing, even (especially) when you feel you’re not? Who, whenever you do what you have been conditioned over most of your lifetime to think might be “a bad thing”, tells you it’s no biggie and you’re the most amazing woman in the world? Who, should he ever do something that bothers you, listens to your complaint and says “I see. That’s fair. Sorry, it won’t happen again”? I’m crying a little because your posts have reminded me how far I have come. I was in your situation for a very long time, and that’s what I thought life was. I just want you to know that a better future is possible, even for people like you and me who never imagined it.

OP do you get a glimmer of truth in any of this, does any of it ring bells for you, light any lights? Please use Google as your friend, starting with DARVO. Read Lundy Bancroft’s “Why Does He Do That?” Reach out to family and friends and quietly line up the help you need. I am sure they will be relieved to help get you away from his grip. Keep posting here.

Please don’t share your doubts with him, or God forbid try to have a sensible conversation with him about any of this; he will shout you down and possibly worse. If kicking your baby’s door open was just a taster of what you can expect when he’s just keeping things ticking along the way he likes them, imagine if he got a whiff of you finally waking up to your situation.