Dating when you’re not attractive

[TwentysixV]

I’ve always been single, never been asked out/very rarely get attention from men (and if I do it’s ones I just don’t find attractive). I’m just not very attractive. I’m a healthy weight, dress well and have ok teeth and hair so I don’t think I can improve my appearance. How did you find a partner if you’re not attractive? All my other single friends have men asking them out/showing interest without them even having to do anything and I never get any interest in real life. I don’t get many messages/matches on dating apps either and if I do they are from men I just don’t fancy at all (I know that’s shallow but I don’t see the point of dating a man I’m not attracted to). I don’t ever ask guys out either, but I feel like if they were interested they would ask me out/make a move and it would be clear they liked me. Anyone else relate, or gone from not getting any interest to being in a happy relationship with someone they are attracted to?

I think there is an understanding that some people are more conventionally attractive than others though. However much you value what’s on the inside I think most people are able to comprehend that Brad Pitt is objectively more conventionally attractive than Jacob Rees-Moggs.

Now to me looks simply aren’t that important - I have other things which rate more highly and are more important to me than good looks. But I don’t se the point of pretending it’s entirely subjective because it isn’t really. Although I do think most people are basically ok looking, hardly anyone is ugly.

@Kanaloa

Yes, but the point is that it doesn't matter. Rees-Mogg is married, Pitt isn't. Other factors are more important in forming a healthy relationship than looks. It's working better for Rees-Mogg.

Averaging 'how many people find you hot to look at' is teenager stuff. Analysing why you think you're unattractive is early adult stuff. The mature amongst us recognise that we all have redeeming traits in looks, personality, demeanor, attitude, confidence etc, and one thing, in any category, may be the one that makes you stand out to a compatible partner.

That’s what I’ve just said. That saying ‘looks are all subjective’ is daft. Some people are objectively better looking than others. But it doesn’t really matter, because people value different things.

Although I do think it then points to the obvious that if you’re only willing to consider very good looking people you might then struggle.

Like we can say looks don’t matter all we want but they obviously matter to the op - she’s not able to find anyone because she doesn’t find the men who have approached her attractive enough. It’s not like she’s saying no men approach her - they do but they aren’t attractive/good looking to her.

Well no, because that would be unsolicited and rude wouldn’t it? It’s completely different to
giving honest, impartial advice to somebody asking on the internet. She probably can’t ask her friends as they’d just be all ‘u r gorgeous hun’.

No. Because I've never once used the term 'perfect'. No one is perfect are they? We're all somewhere on the continuem from 'most people would find unattractive' to 'most people would consider attractive' with a fair amount of personal preference thrown in. Generally people of both sexes find their level, or, more rarely in the case of men, overlook physical disparities in favour of other traits.
My point is that the bar for women to be considered physically attractive is typically higher than for men. If an average looking woman decides not to 'groom', or wear clothes and a hairstyle that flatter her, she is highly unlikely to be labeled attractive. Instead, as the thread shows she will be considered 'frumpy' invisible or overlooked. An average man on the other hand who does none of these things can be considered attractive merely by avoiding being unkempt.

I get you op. I am average weight with decent(ish) teeth and hair. However, I have never attracted many men. I am now 50 and married, so couldnt care less anymore. My 25 year old dd is very pretty (was approached by modelling agency in her teens) but has been told by her friends she gives off 'sod off' vibes to men when they go out socially. I think I do/did exactly the same. Combination of a lack of confidence and laziness at chatting people up.

If she judges OLD admirers unattractive based only on their photos, if she won't give real-life admirers any time to grow on her, and if she won't approach men she does find attractive rather than waiting for one to come to her, then she's choosing to restrict her options, so it will take longer for her to get in a position of mutual attraction. Might be worth the wait! But equally she might miss out on something that might have really blossomed.

It might be your honest and impartial opinion, but 'even average might be out of your reach' isn't good advice for anyone. How's it supposed to help?

And with regard to disfigurement, if you take out the positive/negative judgment of whether you feel you'd be being rude, what is it about the cause of someone's lack of 'classic beauty' that makes a difference? What things allow us to be 'not regarded as beautiful', but still be able to have good relationships with 'attractive' others? We've got one on the list, and whether you think it's PC or not to say it, many people with disfigurements have attractive partners. What else would stop a lack of beauty limiting us to the 'below averages'?

Or does the question help you understand how lacking in foundation your point is?

I think you’re taking deliberate offence to what is an honest answer. And of course you can be conventionally attractive and ‘disfigured’, look at Katie Piper.

Nobody's taking offence, it's just a discussion. 'Honest' doesn't mean it's right.

Katie Piper might be a person you class as 'conventionally attractive', but not everybody will think the same. Which proves the point I'm making: beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 'Conventionally attractive' people don't attract everybody. People who are regarded by many as being physically unattractive find partners, sometimes very attractive ones.

It's all irrelevant unless you're superficial enough to think that relationships are formed and sustain because people have nice faces/bums/biceps/boobs.

discarding those who aren’t good looking enough if you say you’re not good looking will leave you with a very small pool of good looking men who want to date a less good looking woman.

This stands out a mile.

So you admit you're not good looking and wanting men to overlook that but you're not willing to do the same.

Oh please. We all know that there is such a thing as ‘conventional beauty’ and that some people receive a lot more attention than others. Of course not EVERYONE finds the same type attractive, and most people are realistic about their ‘level’, not to mention the part personality plays. But initial attraction is what generally piques interest, and a desire to find out more about their character.

So you admit you're not good looking and wanting men to overlook that but you're not willing to do the same

But that's fine. We're all allowed to want traits that we don't have ourselves. How many women are tall, dark and handsome? And if they're not, are they allowed to want that in a man?

I love my partner's sweet gentleness, my partner loves my assertiveness. We're not the same.

'Overlooking' suggests recognising a fault but not getting hung up on it. What if looks aren't seen as a fault? What about people being attractive regardless of looks? Honestly can't believe the shallow posts on this thread. Some of you must have had terrible experiences in relationships.

Why have we had terrible experiences?

If you think people don’t need physical attraction you’re deluded. There’s nothing wrong with it and it isn’t ‘shallow’. If it offends you somehow that’s very much your issue.

@Cuppasoupmonster

'Oh please'!

You're arguing against points I haven't even made now, so no point debating with you any further. Have a good afternoon.

Oh, and direct personal digs. Strong stance, well done. Bye!

The answer to what people find attractive asked as an objective question will be wholly different from the person they married to or dated.
As standard more people will find David Beckham attractive than Rees Mogg.
Generally, people date within their looks range, education, and outlook range.
A mixture of nuances. There aren't in ordinary people's lives the outliers like you see with some wealthy people for instance.
Jane doe will marry John doe.

I don't actually think much of attraction is down to looks.

I've known conventionally very attractive women who really struggled to meet partners, and conversely, conventionally unattractive ones who couldn't move for the attention they got! There is a woman I know now for example - healthy figure I suppose but very "strong" features that don't resemble what is typically seen as beautiful or pretty in women at all, messy hair and frankly looks quite unkempt and dirty most of the time to me - and has a voice that is very unusually deep and raspy for a female that again I would have seen as conventionally unappealing - AND she has an absolutely obnoxious personality, pretty much everybody I know who knows her says so - yet SO many men have either had relationships with her or expressed a desire to.

The reason? In my opinion, it's all down to confidence. Confidence is sexy - in men and women. If you believe you are sexy, and convincingly act as if you are, then whatever you look like others will agree.

OP, you believe you aren't attractive. That's probably what puts others off. Not sure what you can do about it though sadly.

As for not finding the men you match with attractive - could it be worth giving them a try? I've been quite promiscuous at some points, and quite often only started fancying someone after I slept with them. (I'm not suggesting that - but you could meet them at least).

I hear you op. I'm not attractive, I know that, plus I'm overweight. I never had much attention when I was younger and didn't lose my virginity until I was 21. There's a bit of a stigma about women being unattractive. Many people deny this and there's a stereotype of men being desperate for sex and therefore women have lots of opportunities. This is not true as far as I'm concerned and used to really depress me. I was always meeting men I got on with really well and fancied them, but the feeling wasn't mutual. It is really hard.

I did OLD when I was 30 and probably at my peak of slimness and attractiveness. Not many responses even with a flattering picture, and when I met up with guys, most of them were visibly disappointed, short date, not in touch again.

I did however meet my now DH on OLD. I nearly didn't reply to him as he was 10 years older than me and not local. So it was worth it, but hard work to get there.

I am 46 now and if I was ever single again, would struggle to attract a new partner.

But that's fine. We're all allowed to want traits that we don't have ourselves. How many women are tall, dark and handsome? And if they're not, are they allowed to want that in a man?

Yes of course. It's an interesting discussion.

I don't mean to be hard on the OP.

Physical attraction is important to her (one of my own criteria if I were to date) but she hopes potential partners will be less 'shallow' if that's the right word.

In some ways she sounds similar to some men who are complained of when dating, that they're not good looking themselves yet will only consider younger, better looking women than themselves who are unlikely to be interested. Though OP is not deluded and is aware of her own shortcomings and isn't pestering people.

It does narrow her dating pool as apparently a lot of men swipe on these dating apps judging on looks in the first instance.

I would have agreed with you once bit I'm not sure this is correct now. Here is an interesting podcast:

(entitled Why are we having less sex?
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0bwpxjb

It says increased independence for women means they no longer have to settle and women are in general pickier than men when it comes to dating.

The result does seem to be a small group of men who have no reason to settle down as they can jump from woman to woman, and a larger group who struggle to get any interest. It clearly isn't just a matter of looking clean and tidy (and not holding a big fish in one's profile pic.)

Those plump frumpy women you mention were probably not always plump and frumpy.
IME, attraction grows stronger with love, and that works both ways, all those women that think their partners are extremely attractive (but actually aren’t) are deeply in love.
Have you never had an ex that at the time of the relationship you thought they were really attractive, only to break up and fall out of love, then think, what the fuck was I thinking.

I am quite conventionally attractive and my requirements when I was OLD were mostly intellectual (preferred someone with a STEM degree, speaking several languages, professional career) and someone who took good care of himself.

I had much success and now with an amazing partner. I think he's not conventionally attractive but he has a great body and he's so incredibly smart and empathic.

I gave all men who met my criteria (very few to be honest) a chance and met them in person and I never had the crazy initial attraction but I was sure it would grow (and it did, I was quite spoilt for choice amongst three men as they were all amazing).

Sorry but initial physical attraction is overrated

Good luck op and I would suggest being more open minded and meeting the men who meet your "other" criteria

@heartbroken40 Hmmm, If he has a great body he can't be that unattractive! For many people a good body is more important than facial beauty and many women don't like the pretty boy type anyway. It doesn't sound like you ended up with an uggo from your description is what I'm trying to say.