What should you not do as a girlfriend until you become a wife? Parameters?

[piddocktrumperiness]

Just that really- I was having a conversation with some friends; none of us are married but some are in relationships; some live together and some don't, and we got talking about what we won't do for our partner unless they committed and got married.

I quickly realised that the concept of gf and wife for me was a little more fluid, as I was married before and only really knew what being a wife meant, and now that I am in a relationship, albeit not married, my behaviour has not really changed that much. This got the debate going and not two ladies could really agree on what the parameters are.

It got me overthinking, as I do not want to be doing too much for someone and being taken advantage of, as I was in my marriage (ironically)

For context, I have been in a relationship with DP for 2 yrs, we don't live together. We have kids from previous relationships, and do not plan on having kids together.
Aside from the financial/security stuff of being married like buying a house or having kids, are there parameters? what are they?

Personally wouldn’t have had children or bought a house together - and didn’t until I married DH. Also used to buy gifts just from me for in-laws at Christmas - nothing big, usually biggish box of nice chocs or something - but now we send a gift from us as a family. On a more personal note I think I feel more able to be a bit blunt with my husband than when we were just bf/gf, and our communication is definitely better (but then it probably should be now we have 2 DC together!)
Have siblings in long term committed relationships though who co-own property etc and both work (no DC) and it works for them. Have no problem with this - just think it’s important anyone is aware of their legal standing etc were a relationship to break down - married or otherwise! I wouldn’t have gone to working part time to care for DC unless married.

I was previously married and am now divorced and in a relationship of over 3 years. We don't live together ad don't have or plan on having more children together (both have children from our marriages).

In my marriage I did all of the mental load for most things, including Christmas/birthday cards/presents for both my family, his and ours together.

Now, I think about my own family and my partner does his. We might do joint presents but I will choose and buy for my family and he will do the same for his and we will put them from us both. I am not getting into being responsible for everything for everyone again. If he forgets his family birthdays (and he does) then that's on him.

He also takes care of his home and I mine.

I don't see myself getting married again as to me, marriage has lost that meaning it used to have to me of being forever, in sickness and in health, etc. My ex husband had an affair and broke my heart and my belief in marriage. Maybe if I was thinking of having children with someone else then I would want to be married but I don't. I'd like to be able to walk away freely if my relationship ends in the future, not go through another painful and expensive divorce.

Use your common sense - don't have children, don't have a joint bank account, don't move in together unless both names are on the mortgage/tenancy. Marriage doesn't mean things can't go wrong, but at least you need to protect yourself as well as you can.

I'm not surprised, I just think it's old fashioned thinking. I'm in a long-term relationship (nearly two decades long) with DC. We are both on the deeds of our house and on the mortgage and we lodged a document with our solicitors when we bought it that it would be an even split in the event of us separating. We share finances but I am financially independent and can support myself and our DC. I wouldn't expect to claim half of his earnings and pension or vice versa if we split, so getting married purely for financial reasons feels a bit mercenary, IMHO, and that's why I think it's old fashioned. I do appreciate, though, that some women are forced by circumstances to give up work and aren't financially independent so marriage is a protection for them.

Not knocking marriage – my folks have been married 50+ years – just querying PP saying they refused to have children until they got a ringer on their finger.

I used to help buy gifts for my partner's side of the family (and kids of his friends) until we got married and had a child a year later and then I decided it was too much extra work for me and we now have a rule that he is in charge of present buying and making arrangements with his side of the family. I think his Mum sometimes thinks I'm being a bit rude, but I don't care. I love seeing them, but I not prepared to do 100% of the extended family admin for the rest of my life!

There’s nothing I do differently as a wife than I used to do as a girlfriend. I don’t write cards or buy presents for his family; I’m not his secretary

18 years married. Never had a joint account. Never taken any of DH’s money nor he mine. I came into the marriage with more assets but he earned slightly more at the time. I’ve never worked part time - he has. I worked more during Covid, he worked less. He worked away 5.5 days a week when DD was tiny and still did his fair share when at home. 10 years on I’m the one that works away a lot and he does more at home as a result. Income is pretty much the same.

His mum gave up work to get married. To his parents wife = child carer, cook, housekeeper. My mum was the one with the career. My dad thought me to cook, to service a car and to re-wire a house. I’d lived alone for 5 years in a house I’d bought at 19 before DH came along. I wasn’t going to give up all that to be barefoot and pregnant
and beholden to any man.

So if you live separately….

They do their own washing
Own household finances
Own ironing
Their wage is theirs
They do all their own household chores.

If you live together….

Washing is done together (unless they have a dirty job)
Household chores are split (unless one works significantly less hours than the other)
Wages should be all pooled together, each have the same spending money.

i don’t see the point in doing separate washing, ironing or cooking when you live together, it should all get done together.

regarding gifts and cards for each others family, I think regardless of if you live together, you do your side, he does his side.

In my 14 year relationship we felt like we were married, I wouldn't have acted differently in any way so I don't really get it.

Always DH job. We may discuss it but I’m not DH’s PA.

Apologies if I sounded snippy.
I think marriage protects more vulnerable women - clearly not you - but sadly it’s often those very women (low-earning, under-educated, open to being pressured by predatory men) who seem to get told by some of their peers that marriage is not necessary or cool.

Marriage is a legal contract. Would have gone for a civil partnership had they been available to straight couples at the time.

You can’t replicate all of the protections of either - inheritance tax for example without them.

Neither DH nor I wear rings. I don’t use Mrs. We don’t share a name. But if anything happens to either of us it will be a lot easier to deal with matters having been married.

God, even for mumsnet, this is so boring.

No apology needed! I do get what you mean about vulnerable women.

Jog on then and read something else! 🙄

Sorry, howling strumpet.

Your friends comment is bizarre. I lived with my husband for 10 years before we got married. Couldn’t imagine not cooking for him doing his dishes, or tidying the house as we weren’t married. Obviously it went both ways, i wasn’t the only one doing these things. We were a partnership and that’s what you do for each other

We bought a house together after living together and renting for two years- with the housing market as it was then it was better to buy a place first. Also there was no rush to get married as I was only 26. We got married three years later then had DDs.

I wouldn't rush into making financial or family/social committments with anyone. Don't have kids in the honeymoon period of a relationship is the main thing though I'd say. I know friends for whom that has worked out ok but quite often it doesn't. I also wouldn't get a mortgage with anyone without knowing what they are really like to live with first.

This is still no guarantee though - people change throughout their lives and especially when they become parents.

You and your mates sound a bit sexist to be honest. What the fuck has making an appointment or doing the washing up got to do with marriage or "becoming a wife" as some have put it 🤷🏽‍♀️

It's completely individual and depends on each person and what they're all willing to give.

If we live together we will both contribute to the maintenance of the home. As adults, I will never be anyone's secretary therefore all personal life Admin and gift buying shit is for my partner as a grown adult to deal with, just as I will deal with mine. We handle joint admin, well, jointly.

None of those boundaries changed after marriage.

Have to say though I don't link household chores or who does what to marriage. We did the same things for one another or together before and after we got married.

I wouldn't have children nor live together before marriage because it's too easy for them to leave you & the kids penniless and homeless. I stuck to this & not having children in the first two years of a relationship. Many people end up stuck in shit relationships because of accidental pregnancies. Too many jump have sex without thinking whether they're compatible with the person they're about to exchange bodily fluids with. Then end up predictably pregnant because they didn't use contraception.

There is no difference for me between a LTR and a marriage for these kinds of things, I would find it quite odd and old fashioned if there were. I've been with my DP for 7 years, we are not married yet but we live as a married couple would. This seems to me the best and most logical way of knowing the marriage will be right for you. Behaving differently before and after turns it into a sort of game with chance involved.

what we won't do for our partner unless they committed and got married

What a bizarre question idea. So they're doing you a favour by marrying you, and you'll 'reward' them by cooking, and wrapping their presents? I was with my now-DH for many years before we got married (I wasn't keen, but a practical reason emerged, so I agreed), and there's been absolutely no change in who does what around the house -- he cooks, shops and does almost all laundry, I do the garden, do more child-related dropping and picking up, and have had far more input into project managing a renovation etc.

I think it's more a) length and seriousness of relationship
And
B) reciprocity
Than any wife/gf division.

As in it would be odd to do joint presents etc if you'd only been casually dating for 6 months, fine if you've been living together for a decade.

In terms of doing "things" to help each other - I'd do that very early in the relationship if partner was doing the same - not exact tit for tat obviously but "of course I'll pick you up from the airport after your stag party....thanks for helping me paint my house" sort of thing. Surely if you like someone you do things to help them, whether that's a friend/romantic/colleague/family relationship but for most people there's a boundary between helping one another/cheeky fucker one way only type.

But if there's some sort of expectation that as a wife you suddenly become a doormat rushing around doing all the chores and, well, wifework while he watches TV as a reward for putting a ring on your finger then yeah that is sexist and no, wouldn't be happening for me!