feckin conspiracy theories

[logicandfacts]

Has anyone managed to change someone's mind about misinformation, conspiracy theories - all the stuff that's caused so many problems in relationships over the past few years?

Has any media made a decent programme explaining how this happens to people? If there is, I could show it to "people".

I find it absolutely enraging that I can't change people's minds. AITA?

Examples can be provided.

Examples might be helpful … ?

If they've gone down the QAnon rabbit hole, it can be very difficult to get them back. It can take a lot of support and counselling. The BBC and Guardian both have articles on the damage that conspiracy theories do to relationships, and the deprogramming/recovery process.

Covid related and a mixture of misinformation and conspiracy theory...

"Measures taken against this virus are so disproportionate that the best explanation is that they are part of a wider agenda that is not about public health & which involves the collection of personal data"

"Sleight of hand with statistics which have been grossly exaggerated, seemingly to cause panic."

"These early-stage development vaccines more dangerous than the illness for any healthy person under c.80 years of age without existing co-morbidities."

This might be better on Covid pages

I suppose it depends on how close a relationship you have with them. If I was living in a partnership/married I think it's one of the things that would make me move on, especially if they kept talking about their beliefs.

If it was a more distant relative I make them even more distant.

I totally get how frustrating it is though. We have a coupe at work. One just told me that my recent chest infection was because I'd had the Covid booster. When I pointed out that I'd had the vaccine 6 weeks before I got ill and I've suffered with chest infections a good 25 years before anyone had heard of Covid-19, she just said "um but you never know" in her best mystical voice. Absolute nutter.

I've lost my mum to this.

She's in her 70's and lives alone. Spends all day watching YouTube clips and gb news.

Can't have a conversation without bringing it up.

Lives in fear, won't watch bbc and all the programmes she used to like as its all propaganda. Won't go to a doctor because (to put it very simply and over exaggerating a little) they're all in on it.

Lonely and fearful.

Those idiots have got a lot to answer for.

Conspiracy theories are the new religion.

People who wouldn't be seen dead believing in a God that causes everything to happen in the world and which they have no proof for, will happily instead believe in an unseen group of humans with secret powers that is conspiring to change the world.

And just like a religious fanatic, you cannot argue with them using logic and facts, because it is a deeply, DEEPLY held belief system.

And further, just like a religious fanatic, Conspiracy Theorists believe that they are 'special' and 'chosen' because they can See the Truth and everyone else is blind.

That's awful vintage and must be so hard for you

I've never thought of it like that before @Haffiana but I think that you're absolutely right.

Dr Hannah Fry presented a documentary about anti-vaxers and worked with them using statistics to see if she could change their minds. It was really interesting how much some people are entrenched in their own narratives.
www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2022/unvaccinated-professor-hannah-fry

Thankyou @PritiPatelsMaker

She thinks we're the fools for not seeing it all.

Thank you Nighty. I will have a listen to that. I do like Dr Hannah Fry

Vintage does your DM find it impossible to keep these opinions to herself? It's such a shame that she can't talk about something else if she knows that you don't hold the same views.

I've watched that documentary and it was generally pretty good. I don't think anyone really changed their mind though. The majority of them seemed like reasonable people. One woman gave off unpleasant vibes. (Non scientific opinion).

The trouble is as you say, you can't argue with facts and logic. It just doesn't work.

what are the similarities between "believers"?

-there has to be an element of isolation from different people and opinions
-personality type prone to "us and them" thinking

???

Why are you trying to change people's minds? People are allowed to think what they like, aren't they? Why are you in charge of what they think? Can't you just let them get on with their nonsense?

Perfectly good point Watchkeys. I realise this stuff really triggers me. Not sure why.

I could add the person I am referring to has never had a proper job in nearly 60 years of life, has never done any voluntary work or looked after anyone, had children, had a career. Perhaps it's these things that trigger me rather than the other stuff?

But people are allowed to do that, too. Are you being forced to like them? If not, then just 'don't like them'.

There was a bit in "I'm a celebrity" when Matt Hancock said something like "some people think me and Bill Gates conspired to put chips into people and control them.

Babatunde who he was talking to laughed and the group pretended that Matt was controlling the direction one of them walked in - Matt shouting directions.

But later in a piece to camera Babatunde laughed and said he liked conspiracy theories and might have believed that.

Matt Hancock couldn't conspire to keep his affair out of the media let alone implement a microchip plan with Bill Gates. How do people think on the one hand politians are clueless and on the other dark masterminds of the universe. I'm going in the middle politicians are human and fallible.

It did turn out that the vaccine thing wasn't as cut and dried as a lot of us thought.

My best friend is clinically extremely vulnerable and people in his unit are being told by the consultant that the vaccines aren't actually all that good.

A lot of people have long term negative effects of various kinds from the vaccines.

Yes, I think a lot of what's gone wrong is simple cock ups.

Conspiracy theories just can't hold any water if you examine them for one second with even one brain cell!!!

You've clearly never seen the impact some of these beliefs have on families and relationships.

I guess the point of my post is get your loved one to watch "I'm a celeb" on catch up. Matt might be good at diving in water for stars but controlling the universe he is not.

@OldFan
Have you forgotten that we had people dying in droves. Massive excess deaths if you are sceptical about "of covid or with covid". They seem pretty good to me.

My friend (much younger than your mum) has become like this, it started not long after Covid. Constantly watching YouTube paranoia-stirring videos and sending me DM links. Everything is propaganda. Nobody can be trusted. Ukraine should just give Russia what they want. Putin isn’t so bad, the West is worse. Suggested Ukraine deliberately fired at Poland in an attempt to get NATO involved. Won’t entertain any counter-argument, just shuts it down with stock responses about lies and propaganda and ‘who really knows the truth?’. Paranoid about being tracked online in any way, won’t sign up to anything BBC or the like in case they use her information.

She’s increasingly negative, pessimistic and misanthropic. I used to try to offer some balance but I’ve stopped now, it doesn’t make any difference. She’s very dear to me and I worry about her but there’s nothing I can do.

Exactly! Love and let live. Instead of trying to change people's opinions and views, you should try to find ways to stop being so triggered.

Vintage and Tokyo, you've articulated the problem much better than me. It's really awful.

A close friend's DH (and previously a good friend of mine in his own right) has fallen down a similar covid conspiracy mind trap. Believes that lockdowns were just a control tool (for what possible purpose?!!), covid only kills frail elderly who were about to die anyway and vaccinations are dangerous. Even now when most people have moved on from thinking much about covid he spends his time on twitter sharing content that validates his views and getting angry.

Best advice I've seen if you want to reason with conspiracy theorists is to appeal to their sense of themselves as independent thinkers who question things and try to get them to turn that scepticism on the conspiracy theories themselves. But I find that too difficult and frustrating (and don't want to lose my friend over it) so instead just change the subject and refuse to engage. Switching off from social media and exposing them to as much social interaction with normal people is also key I think - and sounds like the lack of normal social engagement via work, etc is a big part of the problem here too. Not easy at all.