feckin conspiracy theories

[logicandfacts]

Has anyone managed to change someone's mind about misinformation, conspiracy theories - all the stuff that's caused so many problems in relationships over the past few years?

Has any media made a decent programme explaining how this happens to people? If there is, I could show it to "people".

I find it absolutely enraging that I can't change people's minds. AITA?

Examples can be provided.

Teaching kids critical thinking is what ends up with conspiracy theories. Teach them to follow what they're told and you end up with sheep. It's a broad spectrum, and we're all on it somewhere. We all believe some of what we're told and question other things. We all think that some of what we're told is not true, and due to ulterior motives. We are all entitled to be wherever we want on that spectrum. None of us is entitled to tell anyone else where they should be on the spectrum, and if someone is trying to do that, then the relationship is disrespectful.

@Watchkeys but you haven’t addressed the dangers of this kind of thinking. Don’t you think it’s important that people are equipped to make healthy decisions based on fact rather that what a random person comes up with in the internet? Is it ok with you that people are dying because they don’t believe in the expertise of doctors? Is it ok that people who are in charge of minors are teaching this crap to their kids? Is it ok that like the poster above they are being prevented having the vaccine because someone in the family feels so strongly against it?
Is it ok that some bloke went into a pizza place to kill people when nothing was going on? Is it alright that world leaders are being voted in on the basis that the other contenders are actually lizards from outer space?
it’s not harmless. It’s ridiculous and a future with millions of people believing this rubbish is scary as hell.
a lot of it is rooted in white supremacy etc.
Logic, evidence and truth is really really important.

People will believe what they want to believe, @Nursejackie1 it's not anybody's job to 'address the dangers of this kind of thinking'. Quite why you think I should is beyond me. Why are you asking what I'm ok with? I don't care what you think, you don't care what I think, and why should anybody care what someone thinks even if it's extreme, unless they are doing something extreme? People who do extreme things get policed. You're trying to police thinking. Why do you have the right to do that? Because you're 'right'? Because you have proof? Because it's logical?

Logic is personal. Evidence is different depending on who you ask. Truth is a belief.

Why do you think you know best? There's a lot of stuff that's not ok in the world, but it's not up to you or me to decide what is and what isn't. If we do, we're doing the same as conspiracy theorists, and forcing our version of 'right' onto others.

Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist. Presenting conspiracy theories as harmless opinions and then refusing to discuss the very real dangers.
logic, truth and evidence are just that. Check the definitions. They are not something someone just dreams up.
Imagine a world where people just dream up “opinions” based on the flimsiest evidence,

eg… we all know that as a human being we need oxygen to breathe to live. This is based on fact and proven evidence.
You are saying that if someone comes along and decides based on absolutely nothing that we would be fine without oxygen that’s their right to think that, they have the right to spread this misinformation and those people who decide to live in a chamber without oxygen will be fine and won’t suffocate because you know, truth is just a belief right? This is how you sound.

Fact is fact, truth is truth and evidence is our most reliable source of deciding what to believe. Dismiss evidence and experts and believe random shite from dubious sources and you’re pretty fucked

@Nursejackie1

You're extrapolating a lot, and 'This is how you sound' is personal, so I'm thinking you're trying to manipulate me to change the way I'm thinking, by attempting to make me feel bad about myself.

I'm going to practice what I preach, and accept that you think whatever codswallop you want to think about me. I don't mind. I'm not going to discuss it any further, and we can agree to differ.

Nice side step. I rest my case. There’s no hope once down that hole. Discussions shut down. As I’ve already said…It’s scary stuff.

There’s an interesting video on YouTube (of all places!) with Professor of Psychology Sam Vaknin talking about magical thinking and blind faith in conspiracy theory and how it is often comorbid with Cluster B PDs. It really shines a light into the darkness of our absurd times. I can recommend.

One last thing… I don’t think I know best in many areas…which is why when I need something out of my remit I believe the experts and follow their advice and not some weirdo on the internet. It’s conspiracy theorists who think they know best above experts with masters degrees, with years of research and experience behind them. It’s mind boggling and unbelievably hard to understand that kind of mind set.

@BigMandsTattooPortfolio will have a watch of this. It makes sense to me that there would be a link. Sounds interesting.

NurseJackie, I’m the same, I don’t think I know everything - far from it - but I value the research carried out by those who are highly qualified within their field and know better than me.

So if I keep speaking I'm a conspiracy theorist, and if I shut up I'm a conspiracy theorist. Love the way you're using 'proof' and 'evidence' there. Totally unfounded. There's nothing scary about what I've said at all. It's an opinion.

If you think I'm a conspiracy theorist though, you'd be better to stop discussing stuff with me, wouldn't you? No point, and you've got proof and evidence...

Sorry but I think it’s quite scary when you think truth is just a belief. Thats what you said. Your last post has actually baffled me so well done, I’m out!

Teaching critical thinking does not result in conspiracy theories for goodness sake! Critical thinking involves being able to look at a story and question what the source is, what evidence (by which I mean hard, evidence not a random bloke on YouTube) there is to back it up and confirmation from several different sources.

Conspiracy theories rely on people not questioning them as the vast majority of them fall apart with a little common sense and investigation of the “evidence” presented.

Teaching kids critical thinking is what ends up with conspiracy theories. Teach them to follow what they're told and you end up with sheep
And at this point, we all know exactly what we're dealing with on this thread.

Has anybody mentioned Jon Ronson's things fell apart? Available as a podcast series, goes through all this stuff.
www.bbcpodcasts.com/listen/things-fell-apart-by-jon-ronson/

"Logic is personal. Evidence is different depending on who you ask. Truth is a belief."

I don't think this is right.

There is something called objective, material reality. It has no relation to conspiracist thinking and is not on the same spectrum as it's completely unrelated.

There is something called truth that is not maleable because it's consistent.

"Logic, evidence and truth is really really important." YES, it is.

Yes, logic. If we all think critically, some of us will come up with ideas that others think are harebrained. It's human nature. You either have to think we should all agree on everything all the time, or accept that sometimes, weird stuff will get thought about and strange ideas will come up.

Or do you believe in a happy middle ground, where people believe different things, but not too different from what you think to bother you?

The trouble is people not accepting that other people see the world differently from them, and insisting that they are right, because they believe in the proof they've seen. That's true of what some conspiracy theorists do, and what some non-conspiracy theorists do. What I don't understand is the 'rightness'. Why do people think they know stuff that they know nothing about? Because they believe what they're told. Neither camp is better than the other, and both think they're right because of evidence.

Deem people to be nitwits, it's fine, and don't allow anybody to force their ideas on you or your children. Some people have dangerous ideas; that's life. As long as we don't accept it when they do dangerous things, it's ok.

Watchkeys, I always respect your posts on the Relationships board, and in fact I have no quibble at all with your somewhat zen-like but true statement that it is our responses to the behaviour of others that is the only thing we have control over, and that we can indeed choose to not engage.

However, on a board that is filled with lives that are often destroyed as a result of the behaviours of deeply damaged partners and family, lives that often until a poster comes here and learns for the first time how skewed their perception of normal has become because they have accepted the deeply flawed and pathological alternate reality that their partner/family member has compulsively spun around them - then yes, there is absolutely a need to draw a line in the sand and say this is Real and that is Total Bollocks. And if we are a little didactic about that, a little unforgiving - then so be it.

Since we are all members of the society that we live in, it is literally politic of us as citizens to watch over those behaviours that can endanger us and others. On a personal level, sure, we can 'respectfully' walk away from a partner or a parent or a friend and it is 'just' a matter of our personal anguish. On a societal level - well, just look at what happened on Capitol Hill less than 2 years ago.

There's a lot of distraction on what I think is a good, valuable thread.

I lost friends in one of the (many) terror attacks in recent years, and I absolutely dread meeting anyone who literally thinks it only happened on TV. I think people like Alex Jones are dangerous in that way.

Being perceived as a CT by some, I do feel very conscious that's there's a lot of misunderstanding round the term. But we do need to be aware, as a society, that it can lead to inciting violence etc.

Yes, I mean when we want risk of something happening to reduce where do we start with change? Education. For example we don’t just go around saying well it’s absolutely fine for people to THINK being gay is wrong, it’s absolutely fine to THINK white people are superior to other races, it’s absolutely fine to THINK that people of religions other than yours should die, it’s absolutely fine to THINK that women are the inferior sex etc etc as long as they don’t commit a THING. Where do you think actions actually come from?
Sorry but when a common theme that is likely to spread dangerously and has consequences then educating and challenging these ideals is what absolutely needs to happen.
@Watchkeys you have clearly stated that challenging dangerous think is wrong but of course that’s what has to happen.

listverse.com/2017/08/18/top-10-conspiracy-theories-that-were-actually-true/#:~:text=Top%2010%20Conspiracy%20Theories%20That%20Were%20Actually%20True,To%20Justify%20Invading%20North%20Vietnam%20...%20More%20items

listverse.com/2018/08/02/10-dark-conspiracy-theories-that-actually-turned-out-to-be-true/

listverse.com/2021/03/11/top-10-tv-and-movie-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true/