feckin conspiracy theories

[logicandfacts]

Has anyone managed to change someone's mind about misinformation, conspiracy theories - all the stuff that's caused so many problems in relationships over the past few years?

Has any media made a decent programme explaining how this happens to people? If there is, I could show it to "people".

I find it absolutely enraging that I can't change people's minds. AITA?

Examples can be provided.

Wonder why the child was 'under social services'?

As I said earlier, this sort of stuff doesn't take over in healthy relationships.

which isn’t as harmless as you may think

Because you know better? We're all allowed an opinion. When you start thinking that your opinion is the right one, and other opinions are simply wrong, you start to be the people you're arguing against.

The one I got a conspiracy theorist to consider was that conspiracy theories are a double bluff/red herring and are in fact a conspiracy.

That certain politicians (eg Trump) and powerful media moguls (eg Murdoch) actually raise the profile of bonkers conspiracy theories because something that sounds like an undercover movie plot conspiracy that only a few people are smart enough to "see" is a bit more sexy and makes an individual feel a bit more special than actual real conspiracies that happen in broad daylight like dodgy PPE contracts, tax loopholes etc and can be very helpful to distract from the latter.

Also if people are ostracised by a fringe belief they are also more susceptible to being groomed by extremists or manipulated by fringe politicians such as Nigel Farage.

Anyway feel free to try that tact. Tell your Mum, "Mum I think most conspiracy theories are a government conspiracy", it may open her mind to look at the theory she is currently obsessing over objectively and critically instead of unquestioningly.

actual real conspiracies that happen in broad daylight

😆

So some theories are believable and others not, and you're the arbiter?

I'm not the arbiter, I'm talking about documented conspiracies ie politicians awarding PPE contracts to friends or the Panama papers. You know verifiable proof. Thats the difference.

I don't think theres verifiable proof vaccines have nanochips in them that will control you with 5g Shit that sounds like a comic book storyline.

@Tekkentime I then tried the ignoring but she then got nasty and said she was distancing herself from me as I wasn't interested in things that were important to her. Even though I'd tried to change the subject to her dd or her. She also said she couldn't stand by and watch me bury my head in the sand.

The term CT has become meaningless, which doesn't help. I've been accused of CTing about stuff that is actually from a government source.

You know verifiable proof. Thats the difference

Heaven forbid we question those who verify the truth... who are they, by the way? Can you name them? I see that you know you're not the arbiter... who is? Science? Any verifiable scientist will tell you that scientific proof isn't a fact, it's only what we've had the capability to prove so far. They always might be wrong, and will admit it. Why would you have 100% faith in them when they don't have that faith in themselves?

We've had all kinds of nonsense believed by the masses over the years, and conspiracies such as 'the earth is a sphere' and 'smoking kills you' have been batted down. None of us knows what's really true, and we all have our own beliefs dependant on how much we believe in the nonsense we're spewed. Whether we choose to fall out over it is the same as whether we choose to fall out over how much you think a pint of milk costs; it's a representation of your relationship, not how true the information we're given is.

Well, some people think that the government are feeding us duff info. Don't you? Do you believe blithely in every word the prime minister says, or do you question? And if you question, why don't you believe that other truths are available?

I feel as if there's an agenda here...no, I don't think we get told the truth all the time.

I am simply pointing out that CT isn't that straightforward a term.

Many MNers have me pegged as a CT.

On a couple of occasions, here and IRL, I've said "have you heard the govt are doing x", been told I'm a CT, provided the relevant info from Hansard or govt website....then usually it's crickets tbh.

There's no agenda. That's the point.

Watchkeys, you certainly seem to think that you are an arbiter of many things, such as 'healthy' relationships- bug down thread you were suggesting that opinions as to whether the world is flat or round are equally valid. If you really can't see a difference between the validity of those two opinions, or begin to theorise as to why rather more people believe one than the other, you should really stop trying to sound so clever. It isn't working.

Conspiracy theories are very flattering for many boring so-called ’elites’, who are just predictably greedy sociopaths with no concept of joy outside of their wealthy claustrophobic bubble dressed up as ’freedom/development/blah etc’. I don’t have much time for conspiracy theories, although Scientology freaks me out.

Diana Spencer one is my favourite. My sister is totally convinced The Duke of Edinburgh ordered MI6 to murder her.

I think the problem is that a lot of people believe what they see on social media or on any old website : I’ve seen on my laptop therefore it’s real. Bizarre !.

That's very sad, tbh it didn't really work for me either. We talk but barely but then he's distanced himself from anyone who doesn't 100% agree with his worldview.

Best rebuff to that one about Diana is "Do you really think they would try to murder someone by a method that could have been foiled by the wearing of a seatbelt" The idea that someone would agree to drive a car so dangerously and kills themselves as well is clearly preposterous.

Though I think that example highlights something common in a lot of conspiracy theories which is a kind of backwards logic. They ask "who benefited from this" and then conclude that they must have caused it. My friend believes that as "big pharma" benefitted from sales of vaccines, they must have faked the evidence on covid, or even created covid in a lab and released it deliberately.

Lockdowns were really bad for conspiracy theorists I think - a lot of people stopped contact with all their friends and family (indeed we were all forced to) and fell down internet rabbit holes instead. Unheard seems to me my friend's sole source of information. He thinks it's the only place he can read the truth.

It used to be a conspiracy that the vaccines hadn’t been thoroughly tested. After having the vaccine/booster, loads of women had their menstrual cycles messed up for longer than one cycle. I’ve read that some post menopausal women suddenly started bleeding again or women are suddenly menopausal without much warning. Healthy young men develop myocarditis and many people developed blood clots.

I’ve been dismissed by doctors when I’ve complained about side effects to medicines. They made me out to be silly. However, my symptoms stopped within days of stopping the medication. It’s the same for many who complain about side effects of the vaccines within days or weeks of having it. As a disclaimer, I had my childhood vaccines and I think all children should have them so I’m not against most vaccines.

The earth is flat: here is the proof.



https://www.reddit.com/r/FunnyandSad/comments/dm8vek/aflattearthersideaaofaalunareclipse/?utmmsource=share&utmmedium=iossapp&utmname=iossmf

I've recently read new research highlighting the link between the propensity of conspiracy theories and childhood trauma. It tallies up with my experience of people I've known who've fallen inti the vortex. There are no quick fixes, we need to educate our children to think critically.

“My friend believes that as "big pharma" benefitted from sales of vaccines, they must have faked the evidence on covid, or even created covid in a lab and released it deliberately.”

If you are selling a product and competing with other big pharma companies, then you are going to present the findings in the best possible way, so I believe they have vested interest in selling as much as possible to all ages and may exaggerate the effects. I think from that believable baseline you can jump to Lizards creating Covid in a lab and releasing it deliberately.
I still decide between Colgate triple action and whitening knowing that dry brushing is arguably just as effective, go read the “may” and “could” around those companies.

I think Social Media and the Internet are the biggest reasons for the amount of CT’s, but they are equally the reason why we are so informed.

Best rebuff to that one about Diana is "Do you really think they would try to murder someone by a method that could have been foiled by the wearing of a seatbelt" The idea that someone would agree to drive a car so dangerously and kills themselves as well is clearly preposterous.

Aah, but was she really not wearing her seatbelt? And was it really the crash that killed her.... there were reports of what could have been a gun shot....?

This is the problem in my experience - you make a perfectly logical argument and they counter it with a new conspiracy theory.

My personal favourite is that big pharma has a cure cancer but don't want to release it because they make so much money from cancer drugs. This one always has been falling about laughing. The pharma company that cures cancer will make SOOOOOOO much money, the CEO will be able to retire about 10 minutes after it's released. As will the board, the entire executive suite and the shareholders will all rake in dividends. I AM willing to believe that the short term drive for profits might discourage big pharma from the massive investment in R&D needed to cure cancer, because they'd have to report all those costs upfront for a long time before they see the profits, but this idea that an entire industry is just sitting on a cure.... hahahahahahahahahahahna.

@Tekkentime yes it's super sad and my dd loved seeing her dd. They're about six years apart in age but I hoped they'd be friends. I cried a lot over the loss of our friendship. The thing that made me laugh is she sent me this voice note saying I haven't fallen out with you just I can't spend time with you knowing you don't care about things that are important to me. No I hope you haven't fallen out with me. She's quite honestly gone to the point of no return. Sorry to hear about your friend too.

This has become a really interesting thread, thank you posters. I will come back later and re-read the whole thing. Got to work now. Something that applies to my friend is, I think, conspiracy theories provide certainty in an uncertain world.

It's not ACTUAL certainty though - it's a mirage.

@logicandfacts I actually want to say thank you for starting this thread as it comforts me to know I'm not alone. For a long time I've felt upset over my friend and questioned whether I could've done more but this has reassured me. I hope it helps you too.

Thank you. It sounds like we are in a similar situation and it is very distressing. Strength to you :-) And I hope your friendship survives.