feckin conspiracy theories

[logicandfacts]

Has anyone managed to change someone's mind about misinformation, conspiracy theories - all the stuff that's caused so many problems in relationships over the past few years?

Has any media made a decent programme explaining how this happens to people? If there is, I could show it to "people".

I find it absolutely enraging that I can't change people's minds. AITA?

Examples can be provided.

There's something about the true fanatic that reminds me of the flying monkeys that flock to narcs.

I just want to point out that rubbishing the existence of conspiracies is not the opposite of being a conspiracy theorist. Its the other end of the same belief spectrum.

Brilliantly put, @Thelnebriati 👏

Thank you. There's a lot more to it so I don't think it will now. She was my bridesmaid in 2021 and a complete horrible nightmare which she will never apologise for so I think it's too far gone.

Strength to you too @logicandfacts and hope you find peace

The same thing has happened in my family. Since 2020 all we’ve heard is ‘everyone who takes the vaccine will die’ from my dad and aunty. It’s bloody exhausting and doing everyone’s heads in. None of us are vaccinated because of it.

The BBC science show “The Infinite Monkey Cage” have done two episodes on Conspiracy Theories in the last couple of years, the most recent is in their new series.

Episode from January 2020 - www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000dfqn?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Most recent episode - www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0dcn52l?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

I’d also recommend the book “The Irrational Ape” by Dr David Robert Grimes (he’s a guest on the older episode linked above), which looks at, amongst other things, why people fall for things like conspiracy theories and why critical thinking should be taught in schools.

Off topic slightly, sorry - but regarding scams - I listened to a fascinating podcast recently called “Twin Flames”. A charismatic YT couple who promise that their technique can guarantee that you will be able to get the person of your dreams who you probably knew in a previous lifetime. It led to followers stalking potential ‘flames’ who the had their lives made miserable and were eventually forced to take out injunctions against their besotted stalkers. Also, followers of the couple were told they must be gay if they failed to win over their ‘target’. Those in abusive relationships were told only they could save the other person if they loved enough.

There’s also a history of conspiracy consciousness rising substantially during and after pandemics. It occurred during the Black Death of the 14th century as well as the Spanish Flu in 1919/20. There were riots against the smallpox vaccination in the 19th century.

These conspiracies were often fuelled by anti-Semitism as they are today.

I’d also recommend the podcast series “The Coming Storm” on BBC Sounds which looks into the QAnon conspiracy theories and how they led to the storming of the Capitol on 6th Jan.

They've badgered you into not getting vaccinated? Or you don't want to anyway? Your choice but I hate to think they've pressured you into making a health choice you're not comfortable with.

But it is your choice to get vaccinated or not. If you want to, have it, what's it got to do with them?

You either have experience of living with/loving someone that's gone down the rabbit hole or you don't. Some that don't have that experience clearly have no idea the toll that these irrational beliefs can have once they become part of the core identity of an individual. And this is the mark of the conspiracy theory, it's not just a belief that's a bit different, it's something that's all consuming to the point that the believer imposes it on others.

It's not, "I'm a bit unsure about vaccines", it's "You can't be around me if you get vaccinated because you'll be shedding spike proteins".

It's not, "I think there may be alien life out there", its "The royal Family are lizards in human skin suits and the world's run by WEF and the Rothschilds and they're all lizards. Why can't you see this?".

Some that don't have that experience clearly have no idea the toll that these irrational beliefs can have once they become part of the core identity of an individual

And some don't realise that if the core identity of a person changes to the extent that it's 'taking a toll' on them or their life, they need to be responsible for their own welfare, and distance themselves. This isn't to do with conspiracy theories wrecking relationships, it's to do with people not knowing how to have relationships. It would be the same if the spouse suddenly decided to get really into drugs or alcohol. Drugs and alcohol don't ruin lives: people who use them do.

People I know who have these beliefs are VERY wedded to them. It’s their entire worldview. They believe there are malign forces out to enforce control on the population. You can’t argue with them as all your sources of data are from sources that are part of the global elite, who are trying to control us.
These people have found a social identity and social connection within these groups too.

Honestly, mad as their views are, they are their views and they are allowed to hold them. Walk away if it bothers you so much.

Not everyone is so uncaring that they can walk away from a relationship so easily. Or advocate doing so to others quite so easily or frequently.

But you're not cancelled?

So what you are saying is that it’s not the conspiracy theories causing family breakdowns, it’s the conspiracy theorists themselves for choosing to believe in them?

Your other point you are trying to make that people around the conspiracy theorists should be grown up enough to maintain the relationship… honestly it becomes impossible. It’s in the person believing any old crap off the internet not the people having to put up with their nonsense

False equivalence is another trick the conspiracy adherents play. You cannot compare rigorous scientific research with evident results for example, with someone you saw on YouTube who has been told by an angel that vaccinations are satanic and will harm you.

Your other point you are trying to make that people around the conspiracy theorists should be grown up enough to maintain the relationship

This was not the point I was making at all @Nursejackie1 My point was that people need to recognise when to distance themselves.

@DogInATent

If you think it's uncaring to walk away from a relationship you'd describe as 'taking it's toll', then there's little point in any further discussion. Adults are responsible for themselves, as individuals. Nobody would be well advised to stay in a relationship that hurts them, for the sake of the other person's wellbeing. That's called co-dependence.

@Watchkeys so therefore admitting it’s a problem then? As with other things people get into that end up with family and friends having to distance themselves.
Funnily enough the people I know who were into covid conspiracies were the ones who let’s covid take over their lives while the rest of of us had near enough normal
lives as we were able. Eg brother refusing to go to his kids school plays due to having to wear a mask etc. It’s infuriating, illogical and impossible to be around.
It’s dangerous and actually the truth is really important.
I see people all the time making really bad health care decisions and paying the price because they’d rather trust some random off the internet than follow real medical advice from qualified doctors. It’s dangerous and I agree with posters above that it’s essential that we teach kids critical thinking.

It’s not black and white, the vaccines are debatable

Well with the available evidence revthe vaccines there’s overwhelming evidence that they are safer than catching covid with no protection.
It goes further than the vaccines in health care though, people turning down cancer treatment for herbal remedies is fairly common and doesn’t work.

I don’t see much difference between being down the rabbit hole and being mentally unwell. Paranoia, living an alternative reality and making poor decisions against all the available evidence is not healthy. I just don’t see it as a difference of opinion, it’s more than that and can have horrible consequences.