How to help a (male) friend who's miserable?

[notaverygoodagonyaunt]

I've got a male friend who seems to be a bit stuck and unhappy in his home situation. Trying not to get too involved but he struggles to talk to his male friends about it as openly.

Him and his girlfriend aren't happy, don't have any intimacy anymore, no date nights and don't really get along as a couple. They have children, and one child has a specific type of autism/behavioural issues.

In his mind, he's not young anymore, doesn't want to be a part time parent and couldn't afford financially to split up. I expect there's also a level of fear of being alone/shaking up the current level of 'comfortable' too. Seems like they're together for convenience and children - they do have a lot of shared friends and have been together a very long time.

He thinks she is very controlling, but I think he has also at least contemplated being unfaithful in the past. Not with me. He seems to be truly miserable but at the same time feels like he can't do anything about it as it will make it worse.

I've said it's not too late to start over and find someone who might make him happy. But he thinks it'll mess the children up and financially cripple him. He's not married but a far higher earner, I'm not too sure realistically what that means as I don't have children yet.

I think he has low self esteem and anxiety which is keeping him stuck. I don't know his girlfriend very well, I assume she's in a similar boat as she has taken him back after him getting close to someone he used to work with.

I think he's actually a good guy - he does his fair share of the parenting, he provides most of the money, he doesn't complain about his partner or blame her for this - but he seems totally lost and miserable and thinks he's too old now and can't change it.

I'm not sure how I can help him - if he wants to stay with her I think he needs to take some steps to improve things and work on date nights, intimacy etc. He says neither of them is interested. But without that there's more likelihood of getting close to other people surely?

If he doesn't want to stay with her - surely it's best that he move on now and hopefully meet someone new before he's wasted any more years and even older. I want to help and offer advice, equally I don't want to get too mixed up in it - he just seems so unhappy and it's really sad to see.

If she’s an arsehole why has he spent 7 years complaining about his to his younger female coworker rather than leaving?

He earns all the money, he has DIY skills, he does loads of cooking and cleaning so can take care of the house and he does the majority of the childcare so he will get 50/50 custody and his children are obviously all 7+ so not loads of sleepless nights to deal with. Added to which he has almost cheated on his wife so he knows he won’t have to stay single for long if he doesn’t want to as he has female interest around him.

Assuming he isn’t interested in you in that way and the things he has said are true - I can see how it has come to this. He is hiding friendships for fear of her kicking off but the dishonesty means she is justified in this and at worst he is gaslighting her (it’s a message from Dave not Susan - you’re overreacting)! Him not telling her about car share could be lie by omission but storing you as a male name suggests strategic planning to lie to her. He isn’t coming across well from a neutral perspective and I would be sympathetic to his wife.

He says she's controlling and I know she monitors his activity

Why do you think she might check up on him? Could it be bc of his previous "dalliances"?

And how do you "know" she monitors his activity? Is it bc he told you that?

And now also he "was there for you when your family were in hospital"? And took you to collect your car. Presumably whilst his poor dp is home with the kids. I wonder where he told her he was? This is clearly more than just a carpool situation for him already isn't it?

Whether he wants to get in your pants or not - he's lying to his wife and inveigling himself into another, younger female colleagues life. Red flags everywhere. This isn't a good man.

I think that you’re overly invested in this man’s personal life given that you seem to think that you have to help him.

Your close professional colleagues if the descriptions you’ve given are accurate.

You know he’s not being honest with his wife about the car share, and he’s saved your number under a man’s name.

If you continue on as you have been doing, you’ll become even more embroiled in his life.

I would advise you to look at this with a more cynical eye, like some of the previous posts have.

He is saying typical “script” for a man vying for sympathy and an affair. You are, in effect, being groomed to be an emotional support (you’re not qualified and it’s not fair to dump your issues on someone else constantly if you’re not willing to do anything about it) or potentially for more - it might be massaging his ego on a basic level but that’s bad enough.

Step away, gradually: wind down the car share, if he starts talking about it say that you have already given him the advice you feel able to or even say that you have enough issues of your own to deal with so could you change the subject to something more general like what you’re watching on TV.

You do not need to help him, and need to be less bothered by his feelings and focus more on your own life.

I obviously don't want to get too involved but equally I feel worried he has nobody else to open up to ...

But he does have someone else, at least potentially - he could approach a counsellor, with or without his DW, who'd have the skills to tease out both sides of this story and help them towards a balanced decision

I'm not one of those posters who instantly leaps to "He's trying to shag you", but he's already betraying her emotionally and now he's doing it phyically too by hiding the car shares

Personally I'd turn the "starting to wonder if I back away from the car share" into reality, suggest counselling and leave it at that

Well of course he doesn't appear sleazy towards you! They'd never get another woman if she perceived him as sleazy! That's why he's playing the poor misunderstood partner who's controlled and never gets any sex. Poor wee lamb, no wonder he's so sad and there you are lapping it all up. You'll look back on this and realise how obvious it was with hindsight.

Sorry, OP, you are being taken for a mug. He's rooting around looking for a way into your knickers.

You go ahead and make him happy. You know what would do it.

We do message about car shares etc. He has me saved as a man!!

Dear god, somehow I missed this bit
I'd strongly suggest that you back off right now, OP, before you find yourself in a deeply unpleasant situation

he was honest that he has got close to another woman in the past and doesn't want to repeat that mistake because of the hurt it caused.

He knows he has diminished his partner's trust in him in him...

I've asked why he doesn't just tell her and he said she will just kick off.

...and yet he is carpooling with a young woman and keeping it a secret from his wife AND minimizing her feelings and understandable reaction!? And he is also positioning her as unreasonable and volatile - despite the fact he is responsible for her lack of trust?

So he is somehow is more trustworthy in your eyes because he has been honest with you about his previous dalliance outside his marriage, but the fact he won't afford his wife the same courtesy about an innocent carpooling situation doesn't ring alarm bells for you?

In this situation a decent man, if he was genuine, would be 100% honest with his wife in order to rebuild her trust after what he did to break her trust. Also, he would convey to a third party like you that her concern and doubt about being betrayed again is understandable.

A few people at work have commented about the car sharing but again - I've got nothing to hide here and I know we have nothing inappropriate between us - lots of people know we are being friends and most people have said people are just trying to start gossip.

People are possibly commenting because they know his reputation? They are picking up on the aspects of this situation that posters here have raised? This is not a great situation for you to be involved in. Imagine how his wife is going to feel when she finds out he has been carpooling with you and it had been a secret. This is all very odd and the more detail you provide the less trustworthy and decent this man sounds.

he is very much the gentleman type at work for example always opens doors and carries things for people. I can't imagine him not doing all that stuff at home.

I am acquainted with several men who appear absolutely charming to women in public and who treat their partners/wives in very cold and cruel ways in the privacy of their relationship. You simply cannot judge how he treats his wife based on how he treats you or other women in the workplace. Like you, before I learned what was going on between these men and their partners I would never have guessed it to be the case.

Alarm bells sorry.
You said you don't know his wife very well.
That's looking like he hides his female friend's from her. He's not very open then about who he spends time with?

Something doesn't sit right.

Remember you didn't hear her side of the story.

This man is trying to shag you.

I'm a man and am often the one on these threads arguing that there's no evidence of an affair, or that men can have platonic friendships with women etc. I'm a big believer that that the relationships board of mumsnet is not a great place to come if you want an unbiased view on a man behaviour (and nor should it necessarily be). People tend to congregate here because they have experience of men who are dicks, so they see dickishness in all men.

I say this because I'm hoping it'll lend a little extra weight to the following:

This man is trying to shag you.

He's painting a perfect picture of himself and describing his wife as a controlling witch so that you feel less guilt about a quick snog with him.

He's told you about his past infidelities (while of course making the right noises that he feels oh so guilty) so that you know that he'll happily accept a blowjob in the back seats

He's telling you what a good father he is because he thinks it'll get your motor running and you'll drop your knickers for him.

He is manipulating you because he wants to get laid. And He's told you the wife checks his phone so that you don't go expecting anything more than that

That is all you are to him, a potential fuck. And one that he's put an awful lot of effort into so far. It doesn't matter if you're not into him. He's tricked you into having secrets with him already. He's already in an emotional affair with you, even if you're too naïve to realise.

Do you really think people you work with haven't noticed, do you really think his wife won't find out?

Some men need to maintain the interest of other women for their ego. He may not come across as sleazy to you but this is typical behaviour of someone who is looking for validation from women outside his main relationship.

Would you confide in a much younger man you work with about your relationship issues? Would they be the best person to understand? Of course not.

I hope you have a decent partner because you have a low bar for men OP

And no it doesn't make him a good partner because he doesn't complain or blame his partner for not earning as much as him whilst she is providing care for their children one of which is disabled. Why the fuck should he complain or blame her. Did she stick a hole in the condom, force him into unprotected sex?

He does some of the childcare, little of the housework by the sounds of it, thinks he's a prince because he's the bigger earner, has already had one emotional (potentially physical) affair, lies to his partner and won't leave her because he would be financially screwed (aka have to pay the pittance CMS dictate). Its very telling that he isn't planning to do 50/50 care to avoid paying CMS, just moaning about the possibility of having to pay it whilst actively planning to not pick up looking after his own kids all that often by the sounds of it.

He also doesn't seem to be concerned about his children in all of this. What a lovely father and partner he is.

"Because I bet you what you like that he thinks she's controlling because she expects him to actually do some parenting and step up rather than thinking because he earns the money he doesn't have to do much else."

This wot @MsMarch said

I noticed at once that your list of his good qualities did not mention any household chores.

actually a good guy - he does his fair share of the parenting, he provides most of the money, he doesn't complain about his partner or blame her for this -

Really, don't waste any time in anyone who prefers to complain about his circumstances rather than taking action to improve the situation.

He doesn't deserve your air time. Do you recognise yourself as s big of a rescuer?

We are not in an emotional affair. I am not cheating on anyone - emotionally or other wise. I'm not harbouring any feelings for him - whilst he's not unattractive he is not my type and is way too old for me. I am not having any secret conversations with him on my part - anything I've said with him I'd happily tell his girlfriend if I needed to because I don't think offering advice or worrying about someone's wellbeing means I want to fuck him. I've no idea if he finds me attractive or not, I don't plan to find out, and I most certainly won't be giving him any sexual favours in the back of a car. Ewww.

No I wouldn't, but if I were to confide in a man with a similar age gap, that man would be 17! 😂

I would confide in female friends. I have male friends but I wouldn't usually confide in them first about that type of stuff. But he said his male friends don't talk about that type of thing and that it's more of a 'man up and suck it up' type thing. I wouldn't know because I'm not a man.

…but you’re willingly enabling his behaviour by continuing to act in this way, pretending that it’s all ok as you are an innocent party.

Your work colleagues are doing you a favour by saying that gossip is happening, heed the warnings!!!

You really are posting like you’re naive or oblivious, or unwilling to let go of this man.

There are alarm bells ringing all over the place regarding how he’s behaving, what he’s saying, and you seem to want to ignore it based on your intentions. This is not about your intentions, it’s about his actions being wholly out of order for a start how he’s acting with a younger female colleague at work, let alone how he’s treating his wife.

Yes I guess I do tend to want to help people out. I feel a lot of empathy towards others and don't like to see people in pain. Is that so terrible?

I don't think I am naive, I've had a lot of shit in my own life, I'm not some sensitive flower who's never encountered challenges. But I do also try to see the good in people and not immediately think someone is a bastard.

If he's after sex or an affair he is wasting his time. But I don't think all men are. And don't see how he could conduct one when his social media, phone and devices are monitored. He has not once come to me for anything physical. And I don't look like a troll, I hope.

But yes he wants emotional support or advice - does that automatically mean he is seeking an emotional affair? Can it not just be that we are often together and talk about things. We don't only talk about this stuff by the way, often it's just general chit chat and regular conversation.

I didn't say you were having an emotional affair. I said he was.

Every conversation you have with him in that car is a secret conversation. Because he is lying to his wife about your very existence.

You not fancying him has no bearing on whether he fancies you.

My post above offers no judgement on you. You've done nothing wrong, you're not interested in him as anything more than a friend, you've not cheated on your partner, and you've not led this "friend" on. Your only crime is in being hopelessly naïve about this guys intentions

He on the other hand is using every trick in the book to try and get you into bed. People will notice that, and you'll be brought down by association.

If you can't kick him out of your life completely because you have to work with him, at the very least kick him out of your car.

No I wouldn't, but if I were to confide in a man with a similar age gap, that man would be 17!

Maybe it is just me but I think the difference between a 32 year old and a 49 year old is almost as big as the gap between 32 and 17! It is a completely different life experience having children, and the challenges and changes in relationship dynamics that come with it.
It would be fascinating to know what you think of this situation when you look back at it, aged 49.

Yes I guess I do tend to want to help people out. I feel a lot of empathy towards others and don't like to see people in pain. Is that so terrible?

His partner is going through pain and your enabling it by being a listening ear to him as he deceives her, and in all likelihood lies about her and the relationship. Refer him to counselling- it's free. Doesn't he have any other friends besides a younger coworker

Again I've only got one account to go on here but he does tons in terms of parenting and housework. She has days off and most of the weekend free and he does all the kids activities.

He never takes time off for himself and she often goes for weekends away example. Maybe there's resentment there.. but again I have no clue

OP you are really blurring the boundaries here. You have NO idea what this woman's life is like FFS! You've totally swallowed everything your friend had told you, hook line and sinker "She has most of the weekends free" does she!? I'd like to see that, with young children!

I would be so hurt and upset if I found out my husband had been discussing our relationship with some random work friend / car share. I think he's out of order and it's speaking volumes about his integrity (or lack of).

At best, you are naïve to get so invested and involved.

Younger female coworker ^^

For god sake OP, back off and focus on your own relationship, you’re far too invested in him. He’s a grown man, a father and you’re not his mummy.

If he’s unhappy he should leave and stop wasting his girlfriends time, but ohh he can’t possibly leave because then he’d be financially “screwed” because he’d have to pay maintenance for his own children - my heart bleeds. He could instead go for 50/50 custody, seeing as you’re convinced he does as much child care as she does, but apparently that idea hasn’t crossed this Good Guys ™️ mind.

How else exactly would he be financially screwed when he’s not married to this woman?

He's 47. I'm 32. There's 14.5 years between us. That is too big an age gap for me in relationship terms. Anything over 10 years I don't think is relationship territory.

But friendship territory I think covers any age. But 17 no, as no life experiences and essentially still a child. He has also given me good advice about some things ie. Mortgages and the like because he is older. It's not all about his miserable home existence.