How to help a (male) friend who's miserable?

[notaverygoodagonyaunt]

I've got a male friend who seems to be a bit stuck and unhappy in his home situation. Trying not to get too involved but he struggles to talk to his male friends about it as openly.

Him and his girlfriend aren't happy, don't have any intimacy anymore, no date nights and don't really get along as a couple. They have children, and one child has a specific type of autism/behavioural issues.

In his mind, he's not young anymore, doesn't want to be a part time parent and couldn't afford financially to split up. I expect there's also a level of fear of being alone/shaking up the current level of 'comfortable' too. Seems like they're together for convenience and children - they do have a lot of shared friends and have been together a very long time.

He thinks she is very controlling, but I think he has also at least contemplated being unfaithful in the past. Not with me. He seems to be truly miserable but at the same time feels like he can't do anything about it as it will make it worse.

I've said it's not too late to start over and find someone who might make him happy. But he thinks it'll mess the children up and financially cripple him. He's not married but a far higher earner, I'm not too sure realistically what that means as I don't have children yet.

I think he has low self esteem and anxiety which is keeping him stuck. I don't know his girlfriend very well, I assume she's in a similar boat as she has taken him back after him getting close to someone he used to work with.

I think he's actually a good guy - he does his fair share of the parenting, he provides most of the money, he doesn't complain about his partner or blame her for this - but he seems totally lost and miserable and thinks he's too old now and can't change it.

I'm not sure how I can help him - if he wants to stay with her I think he needs to take some steps to improve things and work on date nights, intimacy etc. He says neither of them is interested. But without that there's more likelihood of getting close to other people surely?

If he doesn't want to stay with her - surely it's best that he move on now and hopefully meet someone new before he's wasted any more years and even older. I want to help and offer advice, equally I don't want to get too mixed up in it - he just seems so unhappy and it's really sad to see.

Crossed posts with you. Glad you told your partner.

I hope that the fact almost everyone on here has said the same thing makes you consider that it might be you who isn't seeing this for what it is, rather than continuing to thing everyone else is getting it wrong.

Good friendships aren't founded on secrets and don't rely on lies.

I'm just going to tell him I'm not comfortable talking about it anymore

That would probably be the wisest move; scratch what I said about suggesting a counsellor since he can work that out for himself, and definitely scratch telling him to be honest with his partner since there's clearly little chance and you'd never know anyway

Just shut the whole thing down and his response will be interesting ...

So basically you need to be a listener of his personal drama in exchange of the free commute. Nothing is for free in this life, however... listening to his problems in exchange of free commute is one thing, but wanting to solve them that's just too much on your plate. Plus you can't solve them, just be a friendly ear and stick to that role. He'll appreciate you, you'll get your free commute and stay uninvolved in his affairs. That would be my advice. "Boundaries", that magic word :-)

You seem very keen to find out how rich he'll be if they split.

A solicitor can help him with that. He doesn't need you to ask random mums on the internet for him then feed him the info like a tidbit for your master.

It's his unmarried partner who will be royally screwed so think carefully before you get yourself enmeshed in this.

I am and going to try and give you an adult reply to your adult question. I am pretty sad to see that so many MN posters can't see beyond a man car pooling with a woman can lead to nothing less than shagging in the car park - or a desire by one or both to shag in the car park if it were t for the pesky girlfriend. !

I too do a car share . With a man 30 years my junior. Also coincidentally for 7 years. (With an 18 month break for Covid). We now talk about anything and everything including our relationships . My marriage and a succession of his relationships. He gives his opinion and I give mine. Bizarrely (according to MN) the idea of shagging each other is completely repellent. Not because he is unattractive or me .. but it's just not our relationship.

Your friend needs to have an honest conversation with his partner. Find out what she wants. What she expects . Is he able to provide this. Would this make him happy ? Would it make him less unhappy ? Would she consider counselling.
Things I would find untenable ... agreeing to give a relationship another go after an infidelity or assumed infidelity.. and not giving it another go. Forgiving a partner to the degree you allow them to stay in the family but refuse and semblance of coupledom (sex, doing things together without kids.. together as family ).. that's not forgiveness .
Hopefully counselling will get to the bottom of what's going on.

As for money . Being unmarried with children on a much lower wage than your spouse and the primary cater puts his partner in an extremely precarious position. I would imagine that this is part of the reason why she wants him back - but not back.

If he left his only legal obligation is child maintenance. If it's his house then she would have to move . No house needs to be sold and he doesn't owe her anything .

Morally - he needs to support his children to the best of his ability and certainly not at a lower standard than they currently enjoy .

@sofrustratedbylackofknowledge

I am pretty sad to see that so many MN posters can't see beyond a man car pooling with a woman can lead to nothing less than shagging in the car park - or a desire by one or both to shag in the car park if it were t for the pesky girlfriend.

It's not that car pooling = shagging / wanting to shag. It's not that at all!

It's the fact OP is a secret from this guy's wife to the extent that he has saved her under a bloke's name, that he confides in her about his marriage woes saying she is the only person he can talk to about it, that she hasn't told her own partner that this guy keeps her a secret etc etc.

Men and women are perfectly capable of car sharing without any romantic / sexual tension.

This particular man isn't capable of doing that with this particular women, which is clear as (despite her not being interested in him sexually) he is behaving in an inappropriate way by creating a friendship that is reliant on secrecy and lies.

Sorry I should have said this guy's partner, not wife - just saw they aren't married.

... and yet if this was a
Woman with a controlling partner or husband sharing a lift to work and unloading her marriage troubles . This would be absolutely fine.. in fact the advice would probably to do exactly this and hide his name under a female friends . !

Or are we saying that only woman can be a victim of domestic abuse ?

I see a woman coming on here saying their partner is controlling is accepted at face value. As it should be.. yet a man is always disbelieved ..

Have you not read many threads on here?

The advice to a woman in a controlling relationship would (quite rightly) almost unanimously be to contact women's aid, report coercive control and any other types of abuse, confide in a loved one, ask for some time in work hours at the office to make the necessary calls on the landline so there's no trail on the phone an abuser can access and make plans to leave safely by doing all of the above.

Not to hide a male colleague's name in their phone under a woman's name, confide in that colleague rather than friends / family and 'stay for the children'.

OP, don't forget you're listening to one side of the story... HIS side of the story, which would make me take everything with a pinch of salt, hence the reason I was advising you to act as a friendly ear but don't get involved/too sucked into his drama.

Stories have two sides, sometimes 3, sometimes 4.

I too do a car share . With a man 30 years my junior. Also coincidentally for 7 years. (With an 18 month break for Covid). We now talk about anything and everything including our relationships . My marriage and a succession of his relationships. He gives his opinion and I give mine. Bizarrely (according to MN) the idea of shagging each other is completely repellent. Not because he is unattractive or me .. but it's just not our relationship.

And do you save his name under 'Wendy' in your phone, and mention nothing about it to your partner? If so, why?

*monstermunch
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*Have you not read many threads on here?

The advice to a woman in a controlling relationship would (quite rightly) almost unanimously be to contact women's aid, report coercive control and any other types of abuse, confide in a loved one, ask for some time in work hours at the office to make the necessary calls on the landline so there's no trail on the phone an abuser can access and make plans to leave safely by doing all of the above.

Not to hide a male colleague's name in their phone under a woman's name, confide in that colleague rather than friends / family and 'stay for the children'.*

Yes absolutely that's a fabulous idea . If there were more than one mens DA charity running an advice line beyond 10-am 1 pm and 3-5pm M-F

Domestic abuse of men is still very very taboo and there is nothing like the provision there is for women .. and the woman's provision is wholly inadequate.
I am not surprised he is talking to a listening ear if either sex. He feels safe to speak to her and she sounds like a great listener . Hopefully she will have some useful information to pass on.

Hopefully if counselling is accepted a good counsellor can determine if there is abuse in either side and advise appropriately . (As couple's counselling is not recommended in abuse cases) Perhaps at the very least OP - he could seek professional counselling on his own to try and unpick the best way forward .

*Ormally
*
And do you save his name under 'Wendy' in your phone, and mention nothing about it to your partner? If so, why?

No I don't because my DH is not a controlling twat..

If I was still married to my ex husband I absolutely would as he had the same ridiculous assumptions about men and women being friends than a fair proportion of those posting on this thread.
I couldn't be arsed justifying it to someone who would have the same narrative in his head that I couldn't possibly be cutting the cost of my commute without shagging him in a lay-by . Hence why he is an ex. It's tedious, annoying and fucking childish .

Rubbish. Control involves power. let's say a woman came on here. And she said. I earn more than my partner, he looks after the kids and doesn't earn much. I own the house. I f*cked someone behind his back and now he checks my phone. Im unhappy with him, but dont know how to get out. Im taking advice from a younger colleague, but I keep that a secret bevause my partner is still very suspicious. The resounding advice would not be. Go to a shelter. Speak to womens aid. It would be. Get a bloody grip and leave. Youve every resource to do so. You'll get 50/50 on the kids. You dont need to pay spousal or child maintenance in the scenario. There is literally nothing keeping you there unless he threatens physical violence if you leave. Its bloody madness to compare that situation with abuse.

Theres been zero indication from ops posts that indicate his partner is violent, suicidal, a threat to the children. Or anything. She checks his phone, most likely because he cheated.

My take on it is:

He previously grew too close to a colleague. He would have used lies and subterfuge as he built the connection, confided, and developed emotional reliance. His Partner’s discovery devastated her, but they agreed to a reconciliation. He would have promised empathy/honesty/stronger boundaries/transparency/access to devices to restore her trust, which can take 2-5 years even when the cheat shows great remorse and accountability.

Unfortunately, his Partner has been in a false reconciliation. He is once again humiliating her. He has again allowed himself to feel close to a female colleague. He’s been confiding in you about his relationship issues, and has developed an emotional reliance on you. He’s been lying to his Partner and using subterfuge to hide you….just like before.

This is a gender reverse of the typical Damsel/Rescuer dynamic, but it provides the same mutual validation.

@notaverygoodagonyaunt, I agree that if you plan to continue this arrangement, you must change the parameters and refuse to entertain conversations about his Partner/partnership. His reaction will speak volumes.

The truth is, this man is perfectly capable of working on his relationship with his Partner, as well as seeking counseling and legal/financial information to be able to make decisions.

He wouldn't stop me but it's like admitting this man has dodgy intentions towards me

That's because he does have dodgy intentions. One wouldn't think intentions are dodgy unless the actions suggest it, and his clearly do.

And this is reason enough to find alternate arrangements to work or an alternate job...but there are other reasons.

What if his partner finds out he's been lying about you and asks him to cut contact with you, and he does? What happens to your job then? There are all sorts of scenarios where you can suddenly find yourself in a situation where you can't get to work with him and you no longer have a choice in the matter. What would you have done if this carpool option had never been available in the first place when your job moved? You'd have had to figure something out. You can't use this as an excuse especially when it makes your own partner uncomfortable and when this guy has chosen to hide the situation from his girlfriend. You don't hide something if you believe it's ok. You telling him to be honest with her is irrelevant. His lies have already revealed his intent.

It's up to you what you do but I'd not be riding with a dodgy cheat.

Oh dear, how young women are manipulated, but not you op, you are too bright for that arn't you, people arn't really that devious are they ?

Yes they are love, especially men who have fucked up their marriage by being unfaithful, he knows he's ruined it and now he's in no man's land.

He still wants his family and finances in tact and most probably his wife too but she's not the same, he's damaged her, she's no longer the trusting fool, the adoring servant who mops his sweet little brow at the end of the day.
She has become cynical, brow beaten and her confidence has been shattered making her appear more aged and depressed. He's destroyed her. That's before you even get into the financials, she's not married, after 3 kids, he knew exactly what he was doing by not marrying her, he knows full well what he is entitled to and she knows full well she may be screwed. Great position no security and an unfaithful husband, how you've come to the conclusion she's abusive I don't know.

So your poor little friend is aging and is unhappy with his lot, the only comfort he has now is looking into your sparkly little 32 year old eyes and then thinking about that when he gets home. (disgusting but I bet he does).

You ask, how possibly could he think like that, well he does, men have no age restrictions. Just as if you found out today that your 32 year old boyfriend had been disclosing everthing about your relationship, giving secret car lifts every day for years without your knowledge with a 20 year old, would you be happy ?

Course you wouldn't, hiding her in his phone as a man, how can you not see this is wrong, he is not your friend he is a predator.
Good husbands who try to repair the injury of an affair do not act like like this man, he's an utter creep, a sad bastard who screwed his own life up and he's got you weeping over him. Nice my arse, he's awful, he opens doors and carries things for people, wow what a man.

Your boyfriend now knows, and he now knows full well what this loser of a man is capable of. Tell him everthing his conversations about leaving his wife, his financial questions to you, his advice on who will get the kids, the domestic set up you've been discusing, his affair, tell your boyfriend everthing.
Because you will find your boyfriend will think you have been too close for comfort and will think you are already in an emotional affair, as do many women on here.

Please don't act naive, you know this is wrong, along with all the work colleagues who think the same, they know, He's already had an office affair and they think you are his next victim.
He is turning you into a laughing stock and ruining your reputatuion, there is already talk.

God it's frightening how naive you are, either that or you're highly manipulative yourself and are requiring advice because you are bessotted by this poor needy middle aged man and have mentionitis.
Sorry but you are 32, not 12, you should know this shit already.

You seem to need this spelling out, his wife would be devastated to know he has been travelling to work and giving you lifts for 7 years, day in day out, it's so deceitful, and you are colluding in making her look like a complete mug. In fact it's one of the most upsetting posts I've seen on here in a while.

If anyone is an abuser, it's him.

You are being so naive.

He has admitted he has been unfaithful in the past and admits he is lying to his wife about spending time with you. His wife probably checks his phone etc as a condition to staying with him for her own sanity as she knows he is a comfortable liar and not trustworthy. Try see it from her perspective.

His wife is likely shattered spinning 1000 plates. She works and very likely takes on 95% of the childcare responsibilities. Having children is hard work especially with a SEN child.

He regrets settling down and is yet again exploring options. He 'didn't pay for the extension', its family money. He should also have to pay child support if he leaves. If he is the main earner supporting a family and having house extensions then he won't be 'crippled' by child support he just sounds awful, a selfish man who wants to be young free and single again.

That's good to hear. Good for you.

I guess the reason his wife checks his phone is because he has form for this.

Have you googled limerance - sometimes it is one sided. So you feel absolutely nothing, yet he does. Give it a read.

I think you did the right thing telling your OH. If your friends wife finds you on his phone saved as Bryan she may well contact your partner and drag you into his shit through no fault of your own.

In your situation (as you cannot stop the car share) I’d buy him a copy of the seven principles of making marriage work by Gottman and be a friend of his relationship. Don’t encourage any negativity toward her. And talk to your partner as the shit may hit the fan.

You need to butt out.

It's good you told your partner as he is well aware of how men are and he thinks he's a creepy old man.

You were 25 and he 40 when the ride share started.

Who brought up the idea of car share to begin with?

How is it he can afford to drive daily and refuses petrol money from you but you aren't able to afford the commute?

Not sure what type of work you do but maybe it's time to find another job closer to home. Workplaces are begging for workers right now.
A job with a lengthy commute wouldn't work for a new baby anyway.

I think that would be best. Polish up your resume and put it out there for a new job in the new year.