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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

1000 replies

gianfrancogorgonzola · 07/11/2022 12:34

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

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ChopinandChampagne · 19/01/2023 09:49

gianfrancogorgonzola - thank you for your post and also for starting this thread, which came at just the right time and is helping me a lot. I would not have started another thread myself, as I feel that I have taken so much of everybody's time already, but I am incredibly grateful for all of the advice and support received.

Flipthefrugal - Thank you for your helpful post and sorry to take time in replying, but my head has been all over the place. I read about triangulation, as you suggested. I am not sure whether or not that is the case on this occasion. I do think that they need to be divided against a common enemy but, as it happens, I think that this had become LB's DP, which DD1 was pleased about.

All DD has ever wanted is for LB and her family to love each other and she was so looking forward to my visit before Christmas. She really thought that LB had come round to me and that the past was forgotten, that we were all going to have a happy Christmas meal together, but then it was shattered, by me. She loved her family before she met LB whereas I am not at all sure that he does love his family. He doesn't seem to have any contact with his sister and obviously wants minimal contact with his DP. He has no friends whatsoever, whereas DD used to be popular and had some lovely friends of many years standing, who would have been lifelong friends.

However, I do agree that I have been trying to 'rescue' her instead of standing back, as I know I must do and should have done so earlier. By having tried too hard I have become too involved, too vulnerable and, ultimately, too hurt. There is a lesson for me there to learn here, but unfortunately may have come a the expense of salvaging some sort of relationship with DD1 and my DGC. I kept walking on eggshells and bottling things up, until a relatively small thing became the last straw.

Despite all of the ruminations in my head and mental drafting of letters etc, I have not sent anything and I am currently intending to take the advice on this thread and just send a birthday card to DGS next week, with love from Granny, and leave it at that. Anything else would be a hostage to fortune/mistake and what is there to say anyway. But I am sorry that I upset DD1 so much - and I did really upset her, I was very nasty - what can I say but sorry. That's the only thing I might say, that I am sorry, that I was mad with grief - which is true - but that I did not mean or want to hurt her. Also, maybe to acknowledge that she has tried hard to fix things, which she has, but to say that I have also tried too.

Insofar as LB's DP are concerned, that was easy. I just sent a short reply to their latest message saying I thought it was a great idea to visit the Giant's Causeway en route to LB/DD, that I had always wanted to go, and they should send me some photos.

RandomMess- that is what I am afraid of, that she will now just shut me away in the closed box too, in order to avoid conflict. She looked really ill and distressed after the telephone conversation we had, and said she felt really ill and needed to be well in order to look after the DGC. And I have felt ill too and very low in spirits. I just wish we could go back to how we were, with some messages and FaceTime and with the occasional visit, to know she's ok and for her to have someone in her life other than LB. She has no support whatsoever. I am her mother and I should be there to support her rather than upsetting her, which I did. I can't see her leaving him, as his control is now so great. I was the only other person with any influence and now I have been removed or, rather, I have removed myself.

tribpot - thank you for your supportive message. I won't be bringing any gifts back from Australia/NZ, unfortunately.

billy1966 - thank you for another wonderful post. I am bound to say that it doesn't feel like 'progress' at present. It perhaps does to LB, but not to me. I feel exhausted, embarrassed, a failure. And I do find this a 'safe space' to express these thoughts(thank you for letting me do so), which can be quite dark, apart from with my therapist. I have now started with the new one and, so far, so good. One helpful thing which she said, and which I know has been said on here already, is how damaging grief can be to family relationships. It took some of the pressure off me in a way, as I have been beating myself up quite badly since falling out with DD1. She was really happy, thinking it was resolved, that we were moving forward, but then I smashed it all, so she thinks I am a victim, stuck in my own version of the past.

However, for me, I always felt an underlying tension when LB was around. He had lowered his guard, so my relationship with DD1 had improved, but it was always at the back of my mind that this could change in an instant, on a whim. DD1 can't see that and I could never have that kind of conversation as she reports everything back to him and I feared that saying anything out of turn, even disagreeing with their weird political views and conspiracy theories, would be used against me. As DD1's physical horizons have shrunk, so have her mental and intellectual horizons, so that she is so different but also so much the same. I don't think she would have the strength to leave him, even if she wanted to

I agree that the challenges will come when the DGC grow up. I fear that LB and DD1 will try to control them by preventing any outside influences, such as the internet or mixing with other children, but eventually I suspect that they will run far away.

LadyEloise1 - thanks for your support. You are right. I have missed DH more than ever over the last few weeks. I feel totally bereft without him. He is the only one who would have understood, who would have supported me. I could function at a high level but he was always the rock behind me and, without him, I am floundering. I am a tree with no roots, so I have no support and no way of drawing in nourishment. I sway in the slightest breeze and a small gust is enough to blow me over.

Lunde - thanks for your post. I don't think there will be any necessity to spend large sums in visiting or to be a pack mule in future, as I think it will be a very long time before I visit again, if ever. I expect LB's DP will also be visiting only rarely, given the distance, cost, and the limitations put on their visits, especially when they have so many other demands on their time.

Sorry if this sounds quite a negative post. I do have some good things coming up in my diary, including catching up with some of my new friends from the Egyptian trip at the weekend, and a meal out with DD2 and her boyfriend. I think I just need to distract myself a bit more, as being in my head isn't a very comfortable place at present.

Wherearemymarbles · 19/01/2023 10:26

Keep strong and please dont blame yourself.
Reading the news regarding the Marten family reminded me of your situation to some degree. A young woman with the world at her feet throwing it all away over a loser and a rapist. The Family are probably also wondering what the hell they did wrong.

You cant help DD unless she wants help and you should be able to say what you feel without fear.
You cant have a proper relationship with someone you are constantly tip toeing around.

Wherearemymarbles · 19/01/2023 10:29

And if you want some cheering up why not go and see Mother Goose at The Duke of York. Its great fun, a bit rude and how many more chances will there be to see Ian McKellen on stage again

Lilliflip · 19/01/2023 13:45

No, you are beating yourself up unnecessarily. What you wrote on here about the conversation causing the blow up wasn’t nasty, and you weren’t ‘mad’ with anything (apart from their weird controlling behaviour), it was true and it needed saying. you can’t continue to walk on egg shells like this, then berating yourself when you invariably fall into one of their ‘traps’.
Its the manipulation from both LB and your DD that is now making you think it was nasty. Yes it’s manipulation from both of them, you are at risk of seeing DD through rose tinted glasses again as you are saying all was well with your DD. I thought it sounded like she’s done some fairly nasty stuff in her youth.

Newestname002 · 19/01/2023 13:54

@ChopinandChampagne

Sorry if this sounds quite a negative post. I do have some good things coming up in my diary, including catching up with some of my new friends from the Egyptian trip at the weekend, and a meal out with DD2 and her boyfriend. I think I just need to distract myself a bit more, as being in my head isn't a very comfortable place at present.

Please don't beat yourself up, dear @ChopinandChampagne. You have done do well for so long carrying this burden, trying to do the best anyone can do, with love and understanding.

I think you see very clearly, looking at your last post, what the truth of the situation between yourself and your DD1/LB. I cannot see how you could do more without sacrificing yourself and your mental health to their whims/demands. Look how he treats his own parents.

I hope your daughter will, one day, come to the decision that she's sacrificed enough but, I agree, I don't think she's capable of removing herself from his influence. Hopefully their children will have the strength she needs and will contact you in the future.

You will always have her in your heart but now it's time, as you've begun to, to take more opportunities for happiness with friends and with your other two daughters. Don't be afraid to lean on them a bit when necessary, as well as talk to us here and your new therapist.

Good luck and strength for your future. 🌹

LadyEloise1 · 19/01/2023 14:14

You are far too hard on yourself @ChopinandChampagne.
And too easy on the behaviour of DD1.
She has fallen out with or not bothered with her two siblings.
She has fallen out with or not bothered with her lovely friends.
You don't have the support of your beloved husband but you appear to have a great relationship with his siblings, you also have the support of your dear friends and your loving DDs 2&3.
You have been wonderfully kind, generous and forgiving.
Except to yourself. Sad

billy1966 · 19/01/2023 14:54

You are so hard on yourself and unfairly so.

Delighted you have a new therapist that is addressing the enormous toll of bereavement.

My SIL is in a similar position and 18months on is demented with grief.

She is a retired Prof of Maths and whilst obviously brilliant academically, was also the absolute rock of her family.

She is quietly demented trying to just get her head around the fact her darling is really gone.

She is blaming herself for random stuff around his death, blaming herself for obscure little things that she had no control over when he died.

It is heartbreaking to witness.

Loosing someone you truly loved can drive you to a near madness of stress, anger and despair.

My BIL snored which was a family joke and occasionally it irritated my SIL.
Her son referenced it over Christmas and you would swear he had accused him of the worst thing ever the way his mother snapped at him to be respectful of his late father.

Not her at all.
Such a kind, capable, calm, brilliant woman who has devoted her whole life to her family and doing her best for them.

Very hard to watch her bewildered pain.

Grief is so hard, and you are still in the thick of it, so try to cut yourself some of the slack your husband would have insisted upon.

I actually think that LB is a bit of an attention hoor!

It won't suit him to have both sides of the family too estranged from him.

Have your holiday, get the most out of it, and I think things will move on positively.

He will not want you too detached from them.

The best thing you can do is take time to let things calm down, show them you are more than prepared to out wait them.

I mean this kindly, but he will not want you going rogue with your will, so when things have settled down, he will be wanting things to move forward so that he can control things again.

The worst thing for him will be his parents busy elsewhere and you too unavailable.

Giving them space is the only play here.

Wishing you well.

tribpot · 19/01/2023 15:49

Feeling as if you are solely and completely to blame for the rift before Christmas is exactly where LB wants you to be. That's guilt he can (and will) exploit later.

It is simply not an accurate picture of what happened. You were set up to be allowed access to your DD and DGC only if you could perform a set of impossible tasks perfectly over and over again, whilst being exploited for money. Your DD knows this and colluded in it. It is just not the case that all she wanted was for everyone to get along and love each other.

I hope your new counsellor will help you to understand abusive relationships so you can more clearly see how you've been manipulated. But far more than that I hope you enjoy your holiday!

Newestname002 · 19/01/2023 16:05

It won't suit him to have both sides of the family too estranged from him.

@billy1966 is hitting this right on the nail. 🌹

Goldpaw · 19/01/2023 16:30

What @tribpot says is absolutely correct.

You are rewriting what happened to make yourself look bad and to make your daughter look less so.

What you said was perfectly reasonable. Your daughter has played an active part in your estrangement from her and her family. She has manipulated you just as much as her husband has.

I noticed you said to his parents - send me photos. Why? Why are you getting involved with them? Why are you suggesting this? You need to be bland with them. Not invite further interaction. I think it's a really bad idea to suggest anything that might lead them to feel encouraged to continue contacting you.

Grumpusaurus · 19/01/2023 17:49

Back to sanctifying your DD... She is as much the villain in this sorry affair. Sadly, your healthier and more critical stance did not last long.

slamwich · 19/01/2023 18:27

Not to pile on @ChopinandChampagne but do agree with the others. You are rewriting this to frame yourself as the villain of the piece. Reread what you've previously written. You've bent over backwards to accommodate this tricky pair over the years, and your daughter has not been an innocent bystander.

Stand firm now. You've done well, don't engage again.

And LB as a narcissist will definitely not be pleased that you have withdrawn from the situation. A narcissist wants two things. Positive attention or negative attention. Both are fuel to a narcissist. Being ignored is the thing they can't bear.

Koalacuddles · 19/01/2023 20:20

Oh @ChopinandChampagne they have done such a number on you.

you really haven’t done anything wrong here. All you did was buy a kind gift for your grandchildren and now they’ve got you blaming yourself for so many things.
my mil got our kids some really inappropriate stuff for Christmas. And do you know what we did? We just thanked her and put them away from the kids. Because we are not rude and ungrateful.
your Dd and LB knew you would be upset by their rejection of something so kind. They chose to upset you and now you are fully playing into their hands by beating yourself up over your response. Your dd has acted horribly towards you, yet expects you to be at her beck and call whenever she needs you. If you can’t be honest with her about the past, how can you have a future? they truly seem to be desperate to see you unhappy. Nothing you do will ever be good enough. They hate it when you are in their life and happy, they hate it when you are out of it and cracking on. The saddest game of push and pull. They would love knowing that you are beating yourself up like this. And for what?

your daughter may be being abused by LB - but she is being abusive to you and the sooner you accept that and stop trying to stick plasters on gaping wounds, the better for you. I actually think that would be better for her as well. I don’t think it’s possible for her to have a relationship with you whilst married to LB. He only wants you for your money and she plays along. She knows he will never allow you the close relationship you want with her or the grandchildren and yet she keeps reeling you in for more hurt. So cruel.

grief is so complicated and I’m sorry you are struggling. Stop allowing them to punish you for non existent crimes and start focusing on rebuilding your life with those that want the best for you. you will be there for here when the shit hits the fan and I’m sure she knows that. Tell her if you don’t think she does. Walk away and start enjoying your retirement. I think you deserve it.

EarringsandLipstick · 19/01/2023 20:22

LadyEloise1 · 19/01/2023 14:14

You are far too hard on yourself @ChopinandChampagne.
And too easy on the behaviour of DD1.
She has fallen out with or not bothered with her two siblings.
She has fallen out with or not bothered with her lovely friends.
You don't have the support of your beloved husband but you appear to have a great relationship with his siblings, you also have the support of your dear friends and your loving DDs 2&3.
You have been wonderfully kind, generous and forgiving.
Except to yourself. Sad

What a great post! 💕

I second everything Eloise has said.

EarringsandLipstick · 19/01/2023 20:27

Also to say Chopin it's completely normal to go back & forth with your perspective.

You sounded quite strong & resolved in earlier posts. Now you're questioning yourself, taking blame, and once again making DD1 the victim, saying she should have your help - but while she is with a terrible man, as you showed, she too is unkind, selfish & destructive, and has hurt her family in their entirety, not only you.

But it's ok & natural to struggle with realising this (I hope that doesn't sound patronising) - she is still your beloved daughter, your little girl; coming to harsh realisations about those we love is really the hardest thing. ❤️

The Oz trip will be super! 🦘

billy1966 · 19/01/2023 20:58

LadyEloise1 · 19/01/2023 14:14

You are far too hard on yourself @ChopinandChampagne.
And too easy on the behaviour of DD1.
She has fallen out with or not bothered with her two siblings.
She has fallen out with or not bothered with her lovely friends.
You don't have the support of your beloved husband but you appear to have a great relationship with his siblings, you also have the support of your dear friends and your loving DDs 2&3.
You have been wonderfully kind, generous and forgiving.
Except to yourself. Sad

I too agree with this......... .

................and all the other posters reminding you not to go back down the revisionists route......

There is nothing but pain for you on that road.

She has had every advantage and privilege, above all the enormous life luck of wonderful parents who only ever wanted her happiness.

She has repaid you with abuse, manipulation and grief.

I think you and your husband were extraordinarily kind and understanding faced with such truly dreadful, woundingly cruel behaviour.

Nothing accidental, all so deliberate.

We will not reward your honesty by allowing you to denigrate all the blessings you and your husband showered upon her for many many years.

Wherearemymarbles · 19/01/2023 23:02

…..All DD has ever wanted is for LB and her family to love each other……

In all the posts you have ever written I have not seen one single shred of evidence to support this and sadly I think you are clutching at straws and projecting.

All they really want is your obedience.
As for blaming yourself, look at how DD1 treats 2 and 3. they never shouted at LB or got involved yet have no relationship. That is wholly down to DD1.

Hopefully your new therapist will help you understand that its you who is the victim and not DD1.

HyggeTygge · 19/01/2023 23:10

Wherearemymarbles · 19/01/2023 23:02

…..All DD has ever wanted is for LB and her family to love each other……

In all the posts you have ever written I have not seen one single shred of evidence to support this and sadly I think you are clutching at straws and projecting.

All they really want is your obedience.
As for blaming yourself, look at how DD1 treats 2 and 3. they never shouted at LB or got involved yet have no relationship. That is wholly down to DD1.

Hopefully your new therapist will help you understand that its you who is the victim and not DD1.

That jumped out at me too. I think she is more indifferent than you think. She may want that, when it benefits her, but at other times she's hardly striving to make it happen - in fact quite the opposite?

goody2shooz · 19/01/2023 23:52

@ChopinandChampagne I’m so sorry you’re feeling so down, your last post sounds so distressed. You blame yourself for the ructions yet still try to hold the belief that it’s only your fault this latest rift occurred. It is so hard to accept that one’s own beloved daughter, your first born child, has grown into a woman who can treat her devoted mother with such callousness. But alas, you must accept it. Your husband did nothing to deserve her treatment of him, did he? Neither did your other two daughters, nor her aunts or uncles. And NEITHER DID YOU! A relationship where you must walk on eggshells, consider every single word - whether spoken, written on a card, gift or phone call, is neither normal nor healthy. Nor is any of their enmeshed marriage. But you know this in your heart of hearts - it’s just so hard to accept that, so now you are now grieving another monumental loss, the loss of that belief that there could be a normal, loving relationship between you, your eldest daughter and your grandchildren. Please be as kind to yourself as you are to your (undeserving) daughter.

strawberry2017 · 20/01/2023 08:01

Stop beating yourself up Chopin, this was always going to happen eventually.
You have always been so concerned about DD1 that you have bottled up your thoughts and feelings. It was bound to come out eventually.
You are always trying to put her first but never once has she offered you the same consideration.
This is not on you, this is all her.
The proof you are a good parent is in your other 2 daughters.

Flipthefrugal · 20/01/2023 08:30

Thanks for your reply @ChopinandChampagne

Your husband did nothing to deserve her treatment of him, did he? Neither did your other two daughters, nor her aunts or uncles. And NEITHER DID YOU!

This is incredibly powerful.
This is not on you to fix, it's not fixable.
This is who she and LB are.

"You didn't cause it,you can't control it, you can't cure it "
Ok this is usually used in the context of substance abuse but it's relevant here.
This is who they are and you cannot fix this.

Once you step away your DD will start to see him for who he really is, without the gifts and attention from you cushioning her fall.
We have to let people fall, it's the start of her way back.

WhatDoesItSay · 22/01/2023 09:15

I've posted on several of your older threads in the past including the original Lobster Boy thread. I'm sorry that it's been so awful for you recently.

At this point I think you would be better off not contacting them at all and that includes birthday cards. The grand kids won't care. They don't have a relationship with you.
I'd step back and get on with all the other positive things in your life.

I know it's a bit of a Mumsnet cliche thing to write but imagine if your DD1 was male and behaving like this. Just imagine the responses from Mumsnetters. I don't understand why you keep going back.

WhatDoesItSay · 22/01/2023 09:21

Sorry - I didn't mean to write that your grand kids 'don't' have a relationship
With you I meant to say they d'dont have much of a relationship' with you

goody2shooz · 22/01/2023 14:09

Poor @ChopinandChampagne is getting a hard time here! She’s in an abusive relationship - or two. Firstly with LB, and as she is gradually coming to realise, also with her own daughter. This second one has crept up on her, and is heartbreakingly hard to deal with. It’s easy for us to see things differently, as we don’t have the huge emotional/maternal investment that CC that is causing her such grief. And add into this maelstrom, the death of her beloved dh….
One might reasonably expect a normal person to be kind, polite, respectful and sympathetic to someone in this situation, sadly the daughter is not. And it must be such a 🤯 to realise your own daughter is actually colluding in the wanton ill treatment of you, quite apart from the worry about the dgc, and concern for the wider family. We can only hope that CC can harden her heart and resist the siren call. Daughter WILL be back in touch, maybe not next week or next month, but she will. CC has to hold her nerve, fight her maternal instincts, protect her heart and try to get on and live her life well for herself and the rest of the family.

Tigresses · 22/01/2023 14:18

I think the ill health and death of C&C DH just provided a very brief interlude to the abuse within this toxic dynamic.

I think if C&C DH was still here the relationship with DD1 would have been even more fraught or ended a long time a ago.

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