Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

[gianfrancogorgonzola]

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

@billy1966 what an insightful post.
Some parts will be hard to read by a very loving, kind, empathetic mother but sometimes the truth is difficult to accept.
With Chopin's latest posts we get a more rounded view of DD1.
She does what suits her, is demanding re expensive gifts, the "pay per view" gcs etc
I see her now less of a down trodden, beaten down wife and more as an accomplice to a money grabbing, lazy little man.
And in a way that's better because I worried about her living out in the sticks in Ireland in a ramshackle, damp house with an abusive husband as there have been some dreadful cases in the news in Ireland of people living slightly off grid and physical and sexual abuse of wives and children being hidden for many years. Local people - teachers, doctors, other parents noticing but saying nothing. Until one day someone does.
I don't think now your dd1 is as vulnerable as I initially thought.

She has a wonderful Mum. If only she appreciated her.

Glad you had a nice Christmas @ChopinandChampagne and sorry to read of your continuing pain. I agree with everything @billy1966 wrote and would add one thing, that I am a little concerned about your therapist. You said

At least I have my therapy today, which is with the same person as since DH died. She is actually more of a friend these days, and sometimes confides in me about her own problems, but she really cares about me and is always there for me.

It seems to me that you are in need of a really good therapist rather than a therapist who is a friend. I don't think its a good thing for a therapist who is being paid to treat someone, who is having a very difficult time, to tell that person about their own problems. To be honest I have felt for a while that you would probably benefit from finding a new therapist who has a lot of experience dealing with abusive, especially narcissistic, relationships.

Most abusive people were once victims. At some point they stop being the victim and become the perpetrator. To me, that switch is when your own children start to suffer because of your choices for them. That's why I am so harsh on your daughter. Her children, your grandchildren, do and will suffer because of her choices. She isn't some beaten wife with no family or money to escape with. She is right where she wants to be. Isolated, in the arsehole of nowhere, with the man she always put first. That is what she has chosen for her children. She is happy with her choices.

Gosh I don't know about this & wonder what evidence you have?

I think it's arguable that abusers have some cause that has led to them going on that path. But no way are all abusers necessarily victims first.

Additionally, your comments about 'beaten wives' are very trite & lacking in understanding of the nature of abuse & it's permutations.

I didnt say all abusers were victims first. But where do you draw the line when there are children involved? Children dont stay children. They grow up eventually to become adults who look back to see who was responsible for the childhoods they had. Look at how many threads are on MN by women who are NC or LC with their mothers because they stayed with abusive men. Enablers.

I didnt say all abusers were victims first.

You said 'most' - where's your evidence for that.

I'm afraid I don't really follow your point re children. Of course it's not in any way ok for children to be brought up in an abusive environment - my points didn't relate to this at all but rather your other, fairly uninformed , views on domestic abuse.

I'm saying she is not just a victim in this. Or maybe not even a victim at all. These threads have been all LB this, and LB that. Making it that he is the big bad, and she is just some helpless victim of his. Yet she is wilfully making choices that cause harm because she wants to. C&C is actually doing what DD1 is doing, directing the blame on other people. Nothing is ever DD1 fault. But her cruelness isn't new behaviour. She was always like this. She has always been about what she wanted. Then she met a man who complimented her personality. Someone who encourages her cruelty. Someone who supports her blaming other people. They sound like a great team.

Thanks for your replies and, as ever, you have given me a lot to think about.

I received a message from DD1 this afternoon, starting 'Hello Mum' and saying she would be grateful if I would forward the items she ordered to my house to LB's parents and providing address. She said that some items were urgent, especially DGD2's slippers, so she hoped I 'would not withhold them'. The message simple ended 'Thank you', like an old flame who is being asked to return belongings. No offer to pay for postage, no mention of the argument., nothing, not even a love or x.

I am trying, but failing, not to be upset by this. She just seems totally indifferent. I don't know what to say to her.

@ChopinandChampagne

As difficult as this sounds, I think I w

Aww, Chopin, your pain is palpable. I so feel for you. I have no wise words but just want to send you ❤️ and hugs 🤗

Pressed send too soon! I’d ask her to pay for the postage. Else you will always be the courier.

I am so sorry that you've received that message. It was bound to come in some form or another and that you would be upset. Is there any way that you can not reply or even a 'yes, of course' and then just send them to LB's parents as asked?Personally, I wouldn't send anything and ignore the message but I know that you will find that almost impossible. It's so manipulative to say that the slippers are urgent. You know that though I hope.

I suggest you don't do anything yet as pp's that have helped you in the past will see your post soon and reply in a more helpful way than I can. I really hope that you can get over this hurt. You really shouldn't live like this.

Oh dear @ChopinandChampagne it doesn't get any better, does it? Of course you are upset, that was such a nasty thing to imply - but it shows how she thinks. She's not "totally indifferent", she's very very calculating and manipulative, suggesting you would "withhold" whilst she withholds a simple X at the end of a message. Projection, typical of abusers I'm afraid. I imagine she knows you would feel awful at leaving your granddaughter in need of something and she's using that as a stick to beat you with. I would suggest you consider sending the item(s) but also say you are taking some time to yourself so you won't be in contact with her until after you return from your trip. Then block her for the duration. I imagine the thought fills you with horror, but I think you would find that your mind gets some much-needed space to be able to relax, and to look at the situation from a distance.

She's back then.......it's all about the gifts with her.

Don't do anything. Don't reply.

And I'm terms of your other posts- I think you need a different counsellor.

You need to realise that this breakdown was waiting to happen. You didn't cause it. Please please stop berating yourself.

Forward the items then you’re done with her

And yes to hugs. You don’t sound as if you deserve this treatment at all. You do need to draw some boundaries. Your latest update also calls for an urgent review of your potential estate. Your other daughters deserve your time, attention and the benefits of you and your DH’s hard work. I cannot think of a worse insult that having knocked my pipe out at work for my family only to find a child of mine views me a ‘mortgage monkey’ as if everything in life is handed to you on a plate and anyone who works hard, pays taxes (including import duties for the country in which they have chosen to reside in) is some sort of idiot. LB sounds like he thinks he is too clever for his own good. We’d all be richer if we didn’t pay what was due!

Don’t try not to be upset, you need to acknowledge your feelings and not invalidate them and that message is cold as ice. I’m not sure I’d respond at all.

I am so sorry OP.

More of the same.

So unnecessarily unkind to you.

Hoping you won't with be withholding them?

So nasty.

All your generosity over the years and yet she can't miss an opportunity to hurt.

As if a pair of childs slippers can't be sourced in outer Mongolia......

Oh no, its actually the west of Ireland🙄.

I genuinely am so sorry for you.

I do think another therapist, an additional one is a good idea.

You like the one you have but YOU need support, and are paying for it.

You shouldn't be paying a therapist to exchange support.

YOU need support.

Sending you strength.

I would not rush into a response nor action anything.

That's not a kind message from her at all but I can imagine it's hard to say no to forwarding things for your grandchildren.
Could you say you are very happy to box it all up if DD1 would like to arrange a courier and if she lets you know once it's arranged you'll stay in to facilitate collection. Whilst reminding her you will shortly be going on holiday and so it needs to be prior to that date.
At least that way you aren't being used as a cash cow and if the things truly are urgent DD1 will of course be happy to arrange a courier.

As ever, agree with everyone else.

1. You do need a new counsellor, and someone who specialises in abusive relationships and triangulation.
2. You did not cause this breakdown in relations, we have all told you that. You walked a tightrope for as long as you could, and then you fell off - as you were set up to do.
3. I would box the stuff and send it but without replying to her. Be done with all this nonsense. I haven't been anything on the news about a nationwide footwear crisis in Ireland that could explain why the slippers are 'urgent', it's just absolute rubbish. She must have a spare pair of socks herself she could put on her daughter's feet. On the other hand, you paid for most of these things, didn't you? So they're yours, not hers. I'd still send them but it really is outrageous.

Then block and make the start of the new year Chopin Time. Enjoy your life, and only dwell on this mess during counselling sessions.

Thank you all for replying so quickly.

I've tried to call, but obviously didn't get through, so sent a reply saying I'd tried to call to discuss and please ring back tomorrow before 11am or after 4pm, signed it 'Love, Mum'.

There are so many items that I think a courier will be needed. I don't mind boxing things up, but I think she should pay for the courier. She has also, I suspect deliberately, not asked me to send the children's presents or thanked me for the ones I sent through Amazon direct to Ireland.

I just find it so hurtful and disrespectful to simply instruct me to send these things, with no offer to even pay postage costs, after they cancelled my trip at the last minute.

And even more hurtful that she has now almost certainly accepted in her mind that I was responsible for the estrangement and the pain it caused everyone, including her Dad. I am just the evil, bitter old woman who tries to make her feel guilty.

And btw if you do send the stuff, please don't include a note.

Completely agree she should pay for the courier, and she should arrange it too.

"If you don't do as I say you know I'll be justified in hating you". I'd expect that from a child, but she really is manipulative and- if not deliberately unpleasant, presumably unwilling to learn even basic social manners based on the history you posted. LB and her do seem united by a belief that everyone else is below them.

Any way you could say 'sorry, I'm not too clear what you are asking me to do... could you walk me through it so I don't get it wrong? " so you can at least get her to acknowledge who is paying. "When I click on that it's asking for £X payment, what should I put?"