Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

[gianfrancogorgonzola]

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

Grumpusauraus - thank you for your posts and I appreciate all that you say. As I have always said, I appreciate all comments, including 'critical' ones, maybe more so in a way, because I am hoping that someone can explain what I can do differently to achieve a better outcome. But really I know I can't, not whilst she is with LB and, realistically, she may never leave him or not until after I have joined DH.

You and Rogue1001MNer have raised 'safeguarding' issues, as though you think I can report the matter to the Irish SS and they will sort it all out. I am sorry, but I can't agree. What is there to report? The DGC are apparently well fed and happy - DD1 absolutely dotes on DGS, who is forever in a sling or backpack, close to her. They are all bright and the DGDs have their own bedroom with plenty of clothes and toys. DD1 spends a lot of time playing with them and teaching them.

Yes, there have been problems with heating and water, as the boiler packed in and a pipe has frozen. I expect a lot of people have had similar problems in this weather. There is mould at the property but they are using dehumidifiers. LB's DPs are apparently concerned that he is too harsh with them, but I haven't seen any signs of abuse. There is just nothing to report and, if I tried to do so, it would get back to them - it's a small community, remember - and it would all blow up horribly in my face. As a previous poster said, it would just look like sheer spite on my part. I doubt whether my relationship with DD1 would ever recover.

This whole thing with the presents, it is true that the DDs wanted for nothing when they were growing up, but my concern was more about encouraging them to have fulfilling lives rather than material possessions. So I encouraged them with education and hobbies, ballet, music, riding etc, what now is under the umbrella term of 'enrichment'. We also travelled with them a lot. My other DDs are not at all materialistic. Nor are they racist, homophobic, or insular in their views - on the contrary, they are the exact opposite.

I actually think that I have been led by the nose a bit by LB, through DD1, to see money, in particular, as necessary to secure my continued contact. It's almost as though DD1 has to persuade him that it is worth his while to tolerate me from time to time. And yes, it does make me feel used and yes, it's time to stop.

Och Chopin. I think that it is good that these threads are sometimes quite blunt, but hopefully useful.

I do agree that their viewpoint is inconvenience you to save themselves, and to other pp, yes of course LB would be unlikely to condone a shopping trip to provide ‘fripperies’!

My point is that if Chopin quite understandably provides them herself to DD1, the very achieving of her goal (alleviating some of the grimness with little treats) could be preventing her actual desire, which is for DD1 to realise how awful her situation is. That she is an independently wealthy, well-educated woman with a supportive family, reduced to total dependence on and submission to someone who has separated her from all her friends family and loved ones, and reduced them to living in a way that most rural Irish people worked extremely hard and successfully to escape.

I mean if they are reasonably capable and hardworking, then in a couple of years time they may well have turned this situation around and have a perfectly acceptable home and homestead. Chopin should be careful she’s not providing the lifeline to survive the way of life until then.

BTW, Chopin, re being a troll… of course there is ALWAYS the chance someone is fabricating every detail on line, but if you are, then may I commend you for your dedication to duty and attention to detail over years! You could probably write a booker-listed novel! Absolutely engaging. I think your situation (real or not!) touches so many themes that resonate with so many.

Have a look at farmhouse on Boone, Chopin, I think you might find it helpful to understand some of the whys that appeal to DD1. Also I don’t know if you read any Irish papers but when I’m away I find the Irish Times does good email newsletters -very helpful for learning more about the country, although if you’re trying to pull away that might of course be the last thing you need. Also I was just thinking of John McGahern’s Memoir, a truly amazing book about his rural Irish childhood (I mean many years ago) on a small holding with a beloved teacher mother and a controlling father. A great read if emotional. Perhaps you can give a tattered second hand copy to LB one day in lieu of a cow a range and some gold (ha! No, don’t).

What I mean is, don’t be like the parent of an alcoholic who quite understandably pays the rent and grocery bill to keep them off the streets, when hitting the streets might be the rock bottom that helps them face up to change.

DD2 and DD3 have no idea what head space DD1 is currently taking up. As I have already said, I don't discuss her with them, apart from briefly with DD2 occasionally. I spent a big chunk of yesterday helping DD2 with a claim against her builders, as I will do today.

I'm not sure this is as true as you'd like it to be.

For example, you were previously going to DD1 for Christmas and the other two knew about that. Now you're not. So something has evidently happened. Do you think you not discussing it at all with DD3 or much with DD2 means they won't have any idea how bad you're feeling about this? My experience of being a loved one of someone in your position is that the people around you do actually have quite a lot of awareness, and suffer on your behalf.

There is that in theory - but in this situation in my calculations in what they have inherited, grifted (both abused v generous tax free teacher training bursaries with zero intention of ever teaching), UC benefits, years of puppy farming / breeding, buying, renovating, letting and selling properties in the U.K. - they have many tens of thousands (if not hundreds) in the bank with seemingly lots of other inheritances lined up.

They live a frugal existence - zero materialistic possessions or experiences and Ireland is generous with benefits so they are v v comfortable financially. They are not any where near rock bottom financially.

But emotionally if C&C didn’t provide some of the material gifts that made her DD1 life tolerable - warm boots, clothes, creams - she would have to face up to LB refusal.

I agree with this - others sense and experience implicitly the emotional preoccupation and sadness.

From her posts C&C was planning a pre Christmas visit - not being there for Christmas.

But it is a good question for C&C to consider if they had said come for Christmas Day would C&C have chosen to go? I am sure she would want to experience Christmas with her grandchildren but she also has her other grieving DDs to consider.

I think we’re saying the same thing!!

just reread your post @Glindara - we are def saying the same thing, I completely agree with you especially re the craftiness of moving somewhere with great state benefits for their situation, I doubt that was uncalculated. But the point is that HE has control of all the money, DD1 doesn’t even have a bank account now. At what point does she think, ‘I work so hard and brought all these resources in, and I can’t even buy myself weleda handcream?’. But quite possibly she will never get to that point!

Crafty of LB to get to the point where she has had all the foreseeable inheritances and family gifts before he made her shut down her bank account. Does that mean that the child benefit is paid straight to him?

It means she is physically trapped and can’t get a taxi, buy a phone, put petrol in the car or book a flight to leave him.

That’s his intention - straight out of the abusers handbook - coercive financial control.

I am amused though at the vision of him bouncing around on his newly acquired quad bike on his scrappy few acres of bog land (he hasn’t got a huge herd on half a hillside to manage) - he must look such a dick.

But if they’re a couple of hours from dublin then that would be quite good land in a lot of places?

Though I know that when Good farm land has come up and been bought by farming friends it’s all been quite private and hush hush and to a neighbour friend etc.

Then again there are usually some good parcels that come up with a house attached up here, often someone who has kept horses or whatever. Very hard to make farms pay at the moment up here I was being told last month by two small farmers who both have full-on well paid day jobs. They would both be very sharp, clever country guys (with small family farms) who work phenomenally hard, so if they can’t make it work…! But I’m in NI, so that could be a side effect of brexit??

You and Rogue1001MNer have raised 'safeguarding' issues, as though you think I can report the matter to the Irish SS and they will sort it all out. I am sorry, but I can't agree. What is there to report? The DGC are apparently well fed and happy - DD1 absolutely dotes on DGS, who is forever in a sling or backpack, close to her. They are all bright and the DGDs have their own bedroom with plenty of clothes and toys. DD1 spends a lot of time playing with them and teaching them.

I take your point, @ChopinanChampagne
And I think you're right.
I think your DD is also being abused, but if she's not prepared to stand up and say that, then that goes nowhere too.
It might change if the DGC don't go to school.
There's nothing wrong with HE, of course, but it is an abuser's dream scenario

I also meant to say (and sorry if it's come up before), do you know the Karpman drama triangle?

You have victim/perpetrator/rescuer

The point is, people switch roles throughout.
I'd recommend you Google it if you don't already know it

The frightening thought for any parent is their child being in an abusive relationship, and DD is. Surely at some point she will realise, but it does sound like she’s obsessed with this man and no amount of misery will make the scales fall from her eyes.
As someone who lost a parent and has regrets about the way we got on at the end of their life, I can imagine she is living with a lot of guilt and pain. If she has to acknowledge her behaviour to cc then she has to acknowledge it to herself, which she doesn’t seem capable of. She sounds immature. Maybe it’s the effect of being infantilised by LB. she lives like a serf, not a grown woman with three children and a good education. Scared of cities, racist and homophobic views. Like she’s living in a different world to one she grew up in and inhabiting some other reality. I’m sorry CC it all sounds nightmarish.

Spot on @Chulainn

It's just yet another way to use and abuse the generosity of @ChopinanChampagne claiming that she can't get certain items in Ireland.

Also agree re Random Mess being the only one who was offensive in her comments - I commented on her post upthread.

@ChopinanChampagne please don't be so hard on yourself. Try to rest and relax and enjoy the company of your other daughters and friends. Take care.

Thank you for your posts.

Nepoyeah - I have looked at 'Farmhouse on Boone', thank you for the reference. The resemblance to DD1's life and outlook is uncanny - she could almost have made the Youtube videos herself, right down to her current preoccupation with making sourdough! Thanks also for the recommendation for the Memoir. I can confirm that I am definitely not a troll, or at least not last time I looked in the mirror- maybe it's the dodgy haircut!

DD1 is definitely still 'living the dream', or thinks she is, which is the same thing really. And who's to say that she is wrong - as long as she and the DGC are happy, then that should be fine. It's as though she lives in a parallel universe, where everything is rosy - there are no wars or conflicts or disease or noise or social problems - just an all white, 'Christian', rural community, where the only issues are whether the sourdough rises or the hens don't lay enough eggs. It is like a cult in that any outside intrusion is unwelcome, even by close family members. I feel like the serpent in the Garden of Eden - and now the serpent has been expelled, all will be well again .

SirMingeALot - I do take your point and will be mindful of this. I know that my pets certainly pick up on my emotions, so I accept the need to be extra careful around DD2 and DD3. That is why this thread is so helpful to me - like having all these wise friends to talk to, which helps me process things.

Glindara - you are right that LB and DD1 are very comfortably off due to family money/inheritance, property renovation, bursaries, puppy breeding in lockdown, and various state benefits. In answer to your question, I would not choose to go to DD1 and LB over spending Christmas with DD2 and DD3. I never feel comfortable, always tense when LB is around - in fact, I always have, since I first met him. I always feel that he is watching and analysing and calculating. Your description of LB bouncing around on his quad bike tending his herd made me laugh - there are four docile cows!

Nepoyeah - the land is wet and unsuitable for crops. The business plan is to artificially inseminate the cows - if LB can catch them! I have to say it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, just as the puppy breeding did. It's all a bit 'Gilead' - females are there to breed and to serve, one way or another. I just hope that the DGDs are not brought up like that.

Rogue1001MNer - I am pretty sure that the Karpman drama triangle was drawn to my attention on a previous thread, but I will revisit it.

Mycatsgoldtooth - Thank you for your perceptive post. I think that DD1 does have a lot of guilt around her Dad but, to accept that she was wrong to cut him off, is to accept that LB was wrong, and this she cannot face. Sadly, my recent actions ie in losing control, getting upset and 'venting' - which I deeply regret - have made it much easier for them to regard me as the problem. She does get tense and upset when there is an indirect 'power struggle', for want of a better word, between me and LB, and she needs to be well to look after her DC. If this were a reverse, and you did not know the history, posters would be advising DD1 to go NC with her toxic mother.

RachelGreeneGreep - thank you for your kind and supportive post.

“have made it much easier for them to regard me as the problem. She does get tense and upset when there is an indirect 'power struggle', for want of a better word, between me and LB, and she needs to be well to look after her DC.”

This is important and shows how you inadvertently are a cog providing structure / energy to keep it going.

Drop the rope - remove the tension so that she can’t divert it to you and she can see it solely comes from him.

Don’t get in his way of him showing her what he is.

And I think you can only do this by having less frequent and less involved contact.

Anything you do or say feeds the system - it’s gives him some to gnaw on.

Starve him by stepping right back and only respond a day later to any texts with vanilla responses - not getting drawn in to any of their nonsense or harebrained schemes - don’t credit them or dignify it with thought or commentary

Thank you Glindara. I have sent a bland Christmas card, nothing else. I am not expecting any reply. I hope all is well with you. X

Well done Chopin. I can't begin to imagine how difficult all of this must be, especially after losing your dh and over special occasions like Christmas.

As a PP said 'drop the rope'. You're in the horrid pull me/push me cycle that LB, and I'm afraid your DD is feeding off. It will get better for a while, then worse again, and the tug or war continues, until you chose to let go. You're not giving up on your dd, she knows deep down you'll always be there if she needs you. Sometimes it takes time for someone hit the point where they will leave, but only they decide that, you can force it and by being involved might only elongate the process.

Well done. Bland is perfect. You did good

Thank you!

I just said that I hoped that they had a wonderful first Christmas in their new home, asked about the weather, said it was cold her but looking forward to going to Australia/NZ in the new year for some warmth, wished them both all good things for 2023, and sent big hugs to the DGC.

I have felt quite sad today, but I think it's also a lot to do with missing DH. However, I feel better for sending the card and I do know that you are right, that DD fundamentally knows that I am always here for her.

I am sorry that this is so protracted, it must seem like the same old song on the loop. A previous poster said that it took 10 years of advice on MN for her to leave her DH. Sometimes, your head knows that what you are hearing makes perfect sense, but the heart fights back.

You did well with keeping it topline, Chopin!

I half suspect that you will get a snippy/pass ag reply, as she/they will be annoyed that you are not more upset at not going to Ireland. I'd suggest you brace yourself for that, because it will have less impact if you are expecting it.

Well you keep that up. Every time you weaken imagine us all there with you, cheering you on with your grey rock endeavours to combat LB

I think you have played it perfectly.

Of course their is sadness, but he is not going to change so stepping away and protecting yourself is the wise move.

Your daughter knows she is loved.

Believe me when i write that many parents would have dealt far more harshly than you in similar circumstances faced with your daughters behaviour.

Expect him to be furious at you dropping the rope and there could well be a cutting response.

You cannot control them, only yourself.

I really hope you have a lovely Christmas with your other family.

You really deserve it.