Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

[gianfrancogorgonzola]

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

You've got two lovely daughters who care about you and treat you properly. The situation with DD1 is not of your making. Concentrate on the good things. You didn't cause this situation , you can't control it and you can't cure it. You're a good person and a good mother. Now give yourself permission to be happy

Interestingly, DD1 mentioned that she holds DD2 responsible for a lot of things.

I did think when you said this that I can imagine DD2 not giving one single shit about what her older sister thinks of her - I encourage you to follow DD2's example!

I don't understand why they don't just pay for a new boiler.

Cos they thought they could get you to do it when she gave you their 'charity advert' @ChopinandChampagne

Such drama, such overthinking, second guessing and rehashing of emails and texts. Let it go now and step back a bit. Drop the rope! What can they do about that? Love the ones who love you and stop trying to please those who cannot be pleased.

Do you not feel exhausted, typing out all these posts and reliving each telephone conversation? That cannot be healthy, dwelling on each interaction you have with your DD/LB.

I'm exhausted for you.

This is what happens to your mind when you are in an abusive relationship - the gaslighting, manipulation, coercion, confusion and insults leaves you preoccupied and consumed in a hyper-vigilant state of self doubt which is unhealthy and exhausting.

C&C needs a sounding board (because she has chosen not to burden her friends and family IRL), guidance and support in these very difficult days for her whilst she ensures this on top of her deep grief of losing her husband.

I hope that she feels compassion and support here and not ridiculed.

Thank you for the replies, especially Glindara, who describes exactly how I feel, just exhausted, nauseous, entirely doubting my own judgment, and even my existence. I know it sounds melodramatic, but it's true. And it's exactly how DD1 is feeling - I saw it in her face. LB will say that I am the cause, which is why she should cut me off again, that I will only ever bring drama and grief to the family.

I feel tense just being in his presence, so how must she feel, being with him 24/7? I think she has 'normalised' certain aspects of her life, even to 'emptying' her bank account, which I assume means she has emptied it into his, thereby giving him total control over her finances. Also, that he reads all of her emails, text messages etc. She is constantly trying to please and placate him.

I was happiest when she was just sending me messages and photos of the DGC, with a FaceTime every couple of weeks. Actually visiting or having more involvement causes me stress, because I start to observe things which worry me, such as the state of the house, mould etc. It's hard to remain detached. Then there is all the grief over DH and the three lost years, when she cut us off, which cast a shadow over our last years together.

I think it's better for me and DD to step back from each other for a while. I thought I could let go of certain things, but I can't, which makes me volatile. I don't want to cause her further pain - she loves LB and her DC, and is trying to create a happy family life. She believes in it all and, despite the problems and physical discomfort, is not ready to let go of the dream. And maybe that's better because, when the dream has gone, what is left?

I do find the compassion and support on this thread amazing, especially yesterday, when I was checking it all day, and it just kept me going. I am generally a strong person and despise myself a bit, but losing DH has knocked the stuffing out of me. Also, if I were in DD1's position, I believe I would have the courage to leave, but I am not - I'm just a helpless bystander.

You're not helpless. Model being strong for her by stepping away from them and refusing to be manipulated.

You say very clearly in that post what you want - pictures and a Facetime every few months. So do that, and only that. Don't engage otherwise.

I know it's easier said than done but you can do it. And do seek that therapy for abuse victims, it will help you be strong.

I agree with this.
our children need to understand the consequences of their actions , to grow and mature.
Your dd sounds very immature in her dealings with you. Spoilt, demanding, critical and neglectful.
In my twenties I could sometimes revert to teenage me around my Mum. I wasn’t always as nice to her, or appreciative of her, as I should have been. Once I matured a bit, and when I had my own children, I completely changed how I was with my Mum and tried not to take her for granted.
I would not have let any boyfriend treat my Mum and Dad badly. DH was always so kind to my parents, and that was a big part of why I fell in love with him.
Yes LB is a truly horrible person, but your dd is going along with this treatment of you. Just retreat now, as nothing will change quickly, and there is nothing to be done, it isn’t your fault.
Re the heating, I assume they have a fireplace or stove ? So no radiators working but not no heating at all ? As the latter would be neglectful of small children, but the former is how many of us grew up.

You need to stop feeling sorry for her and see her for what she is. She is a nasty, selfish, self-absorbed grown woman who chooses to put this man before everyone else. Including her children. She is not a great mother. She's raising her children in a shithole, now with no heating and hot water, miles away from family and support. Good mothers don't do that. Good mothers put their children first. I know it's easier to blame him, to see her as a victim of him, but she's not a victim. None of this would have happened if not for her facilitating it. She allowed all of this to happen. She chose this. You need to let her get on with it, so when shit happens, she will have to own it and not be able to pass the blame on to anyone else.

@ChopinandChampagne please don't despise yourself, you're doing your best in very difficult circumstances.

Please stop blaming yourself for this. None of it is you. It's them. You aren't volatile. You aren't wrong in finding it hard to move on from all the things they have done to you.

Please please please though, don't send presents, money or anything. Not after that email to you.

I know you feel sorry for your daughter. She needs to hit rock bottom though.

Your daughter surely knows she could leave him and be well supported by you, financially she would be fine, unlike lots of women attached to abusive men who would have no where to go and no family to turn to.

I'd go back to therapy and focus on the 2 daughters who are with you, they must hate the fact the "bad one" gets the most attention.

I was happiest when she was just sending me messages and photos of the DGC, with a FaceTime every couple of weeks.

There’s your boundary. Stick with that - it works for you - keeping you emotionally detached and safe which is very important so that by stepping back to this distance you get a better perspective and are able to make an objective assessment and sustain the connection you need.

Any closer you get burnt and burnt out and that won’t serve your DGC or DD1 in the short or long term.

Don’t get involved in their shenanigans. Grey rock / vanilla all the way.

You need to reframe this - you don’t have a relationship - it’s not possible - however your aim is to manage and maintain contact - that’s all.

Even that would be a huge achievement.

And to do that you need to restore, replenish and rebuild your own life - your joy, emotional sustenance, comfort and peace is elsewhere.

Take this an insight - you have clarified your boundaries and can reset and know your own red lines in your own time.

Dont blame yourself - you are dealing with a hugely dysfunctional system and someone with a significant untreated MH issue.

Chopin, I am not offended by what you said about some luxury goods being limited in Ireland. I was trying to point out that what your daughter is telling you is not necessarily true and is she depending on you now knowing the truth. Otherwise, she wouldn't be able to get you to pay for and send her loads of things that she could either buy in Ireland or get delivered herself.

Yes, Brexit has made some Amazon deliveries from small retailers difficult but there are loads of other retailers on Amazon who can do the deliveries. The postal service here is very good. I have not lost a parcel and I don't know anyone else who has lost a parcel in the past 10+ years. Packages rarely get stuck in customs and generally the ones that do are from China or the US. Even if they do, it's a simple process to pay the fee and they are delivered.

Also, one of the things that's great about moving to new countries is finding new luxuries that they have that you've never tried or thought of. The one thing we have in abundance is lovely baby clothes. It's not necessary to buy them from the UK.

Your daughter's version of the availability of luxuries or of online shopping in Ireland differs from that of most living in Ireland. As you aren't in Ireland, you aren't to know that so it's completely understandable that you would believe her. I suspect that a lot of her woes, including the boiler one, are tailored for a reaction from you with the hope of a handout.

The only offensive comment that I have read on this thread is the one about how it is common for there to be a lack of heating in rural Irish homes that @RandomMess posted. Ireland is not a backward country and for people to continue to peddle this image is disgraceful, offensive, and racially prejudiced, in my view.

All of what @Chulainn said basically! She is taking you to the fair as they say here (having you on).

Yes - I agree with this

I don't think your DD is being totally truthful about the availability of goods but seems content to let you struggle with huge cases of stuff,

For example you mention things having to bring her stuff like Aveeno and Weleda Calendula products. These are widely available in EU countries - I know this because I live in very rural Sweden and both are available in nearby supermarkets. Boots the Chemist also has an Irish website where they are available so she could order these toiletries and get them delivered to your door. But it seems to be convenient to her to get you to pay for them and then pay an extortionate sum and struggle with them.

I see such a disconnect in your DD - if indeed she is being truthful. On the one hand she is gaily ordering all sorts of expensive branded products yet on the other she is allowing her children to live (according to what she says) in a property with no heating, no hot water, serious mould and with dangerous asbestos buried which may be polluting the land and contaminating the water courses. There is more to being a parent than "loving" your children and dressing them in organic cotton/wool you need to put them first - even if you have to stand up to the other parent.

I have read your previous threads and the whole gift-giving has got totally out of hand. It is a huge part of the toxic dynamic but it's just used as a way to pad LB's bank account or as a stick to beat/blackmail you with and to guilt you back into line. The gifts will never make them happy has LB wants to keep you off balance - so you will never be in the right while you desperately chase after DD1 trying to justify yourself and appease them and buying them huge gifts

I know how hard it is as my own DD1 lived with a man very similar to LB for 5 years in her late teens/early 20s. We spent years walking on eggshells around his moods and spending money on them when he couldn't keep a job. we withsttod his lectures and need to control. We even gritted our teeth when he offered to make dessert for my birthday and then presented us with a bill for ingredients and left us the washing up (the gift was limited to his cooking labour apparently). Then one day he went too far and I said enough and told him what I really thought and that I would do no more. I literally dropped the rope of the push/pull and refused to engage, chase or justify. We were on holiday and he stormed off and refused to travel home with us (although used the hotel/airline tickets that we paid for). I also think it opened DDs eyes when we stopped playing the game.

Personally I would return or donate anything that you have paid for and stop thinking that the gifts will create a different outcome,

sorry that should be "delivered to her door" *and not "delivered to your door"

Literally the aveeno and weleda stuff is available all over the show, in many tescos, boots, the many, many health shops that abound. When you were writing do you want to try the rose essence/serum/whatever, I was thinking 'but she could just go to the shop and buy it.'

If what you're saying is that she likes these things and LB won't let her buy them, then surely by you providing them you're just buffering her from realising how awful he is. Maybe if she's using own-brand soap and toothpaste in an acrylic jumper in her unheated house, she will realise that her life is pretty crap.

*no offence to acrylic, of which I have lots! also a fan of non-branded products.

Re the discussions on luxury goods being available in Ireland and therefore not necessary for DD1 to ask C&C to buy them. Just wondering if DD1 is asking because LB will not agree to them being bought from their own funds. he may not see the need for hand cream and decent boots and therefore may not agree to buy them but he'd have no objection to C&C buying them. And also DD1 may not be allowed to visit local shops and C&C has said LB doesn't like to visit Dublin, so maybe DD1 is unfamiliar with what is available in Irish shops

Just a thought...

This

This! I have been stating the same for a while on different threads. My sympathy for Chopin is a bit strained due to her allowing the severe neglect of her children to go on. As a relative that is quite an appalling lack of basic care for her DSG!

Part of me is wondering how long this weird dynamic has really been going on? Perhaps in her younger years, Chopin was working long hours and got somehow accustomed to use material things to quell her guilt. One which many parents feel. But it certainly led to an appalling interaction where Chopin continues to try and buy her daughter's love. I do personally feel that you have pandered to her and allowed her to behave like a monster. Probably quite some time before LB even came on the scene. What will it take for you to wake up and be a little bit more honest with yourself about who your daughter really is? The moment one or all of your DSG end up in hospital or god forbid pass away from respiratory failure due to the ongoing mould, pollutants and constant cold? As quite a few posters who you keep ignoring in favour of those pandering to you have said, wake up and see that your daughter is a shit mother!

This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking too. He'd never let her off for a day out to Kildare village! And if that many packages of naice goods started turning up at their house, he'd be severely displeased.

I also suspect DD is only buying them because Chopin is her cover, especially as she's now down as having form for buying useless fripperies at Christmas, and so can take the brunt of it. Especially since Chopin isn't the one who has to live with him. Thank goodness!

I'm another who has lurked and posted under a different UN.

I absolutely feel for you @ChopinandChampagne
I know you're trying as hard as you can.

But, I'm sorry, I agree with @Grumpusaurus · 16/12/2022 06:56
I think it's a safeguarding issue which you are brushing under the carpet

Thank you everyone.

CraftyYankee - thank you for your supportive message. I am ok now, well largely, I think.

SirVixofVixHall and IScreamatMichaelangelos - I agree entirely. I do think that children can regress when with their DP, however old they are - as indeed an entire family dynamic can be replicated, which is why there are so many tensions when families reunite at, say, Christmas. My DH was also unfailingly polite and kind to my family, which is one of the many reasons why I loved him so much.

I think DD1 may have the beginnings of remorse, especially since she lost her Dad, but LB moves into action swiftly to stamp it out. This causes DD1 to feel anxious and stressed, but it makes for an easier dynamic to blame me for any tensions or 'problems' in her marriage. And this makes the solution simple - remove me from the equation and all will be rosy again in the Garden of Eden.

Yes, they have a few electric radiators and a wood burning stove so, whilst cold and uncomfortable, they are not going to perish. I am also old enough to remember ice on the inside of the windows! 😂

BadNomad - I agree that DD1 appears to be putting LB first, above her DC. She should be insisting on having the boiler fixed or a new one installed and telling LB that she will arrange it if he doesn't. However, she genuinely seems afraid to stand up to him and now, of course, she has no access to money. It infuriates me that, having had a substantial inheritance, she has no financial independence whatsoever and, presumably, has to ask his permission to buy anything for herself or the DC. I assume that the child benefit, as well as the new farmers' allowance or whatever it is called, is being paid directly to his bank account, since she no longer has one.

legofrostqueen and SquishyGloopyBum - thank you. I haven't replied to the WhatsApp and have no present intention of doing so, even if I'm not blocked.

I have ordered some items from the list which DD1 sent me for the DC's Christmas presents and DGD2's birthday, which were available through Amazon. Not all were available to Ireland, but the website did state clearly which items were or were not available. I didn't have them wrapped, so DD1 will have to sort that out - or perhaps there will be another message saying that they are no longer required and what should she do with them. I actually don't care - but it felt right to send the DGC their gifts. I will also be posting DGD2's birthday card, although it won't get there in time.

In the meantime, I have a pile of duplicate items, which I can unwrap and arrange to return to Amazon for a refund, or I may just donate them. In any event, it is all hassle and inconvenience. I think they are genuinely oblivious about what effort is involved or uncaring about other people's inconvenience. DD1 told me in terms that I was less of an inconvenience - or words to that effect because, when I visit, I stay in a hotel and get taxis to their house, unlike LB's DP, who come in their camper van and park at the property. They actually offered to stay at a nearby campsite, apparently, but DD1 felt that they couldn't really let them do that. However, she does find it a burden when they come, probably because LB doesn't help but leaves it all to her.

burnoutbabe - I agree that DD1 must realise that she could leave LB, but she still appears to be in thrall to him, to the extent where everyone else is superfluous. Actually, she was genuinely delighted to be back in touch with me but, for the relationship to continue, I need to buy into their perfect family narrative and love LB, which I just can't bring myself to do, however hard I try. Deep down, I think DD1 knows this, which is why she says things are 'fake', even though she can't articulate it.

DD2 and DD3 have no idea what head space DD1 is currently taking up. As I have already said, I don't discuss her with them, apart from briefly with DD2 occasionally. I spent a big chunk of yesterday helping DD2 with a claim against her builders, as I will do today.

Glindara - thanks for your excellent advice, as usual. You are right, I don't find joy, comfort or peace in the relationship. That is why these threads have been so helpful to me, by validating my feelings. I should feel joy in the DGC, in particular, but although I do love them, I am afraid to become too emotionally attached, because I know it can be used against me, as it is with LB's DP.

I am sure that LB and DD1 are wringing their hands and thinking what a fool I am to have 'blown' the opportunity to spend time with their family so near to Christmas and DGD2's birthday, and I know DD1 was really looking forward to it. Honestly, I am so relieved to be warm and comfortable here in my kitchen, with nobody to worry about apart from the pets and, as I had planned to be in Ireland, I have nothing in my diary until next Thursday.

Chulainn, Lunde, Nepoyeah, DPotter and BattleofBeamfleot - I am sure that you are right and that DD1 is either not aware about what is available in Ireland or is just not 'allowed' to have it, although I think that the main problems have arisen with parcels which have been posted from the UK because of the customs/duty aspects. It would be so much more sensible for her to just buy things over there. However, their mindset appears to be that it is always better to get something for nothing, whatever it may cost someone else.

Lunde - Thank goodness your DD1 eventually escaped!