Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

[gianfrancogorgonzola]

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

You didn't blow it because you couldn't let go of the past. You didn't blow it at all. They 'blew it' because they wanted to make you feel bad.

As long as you continue to accept their narrative that being treated terribly by them is your own fault you will never be able to step out of this cycle of abuse.

Give yourself today ONLY to feel bad and beat yourself up if you must, but the truth is that this was always going to happen at some point.

It is part of a well established dynamic that suits them both well.

If your darling husband was alive he wouldn't allow you to soak in this unfair guilt.

He would rightly tell you to not take on blame that is not yours.

Please reach out to a friend for support and start some therapy again to help you deal with this.

Such stress is really not good for you.

I think it is wise to not respond and to take extended space from this.

Forget about the gifts, return what you can or donate them.

You CANNOT change them.

Please focus on trying to change your response to them.

That is all that you can do.

Something like this was always going to happen, Chopin.

Reading all this and previous posts it clear @ChopinandChampagne that you need to step back from your DD1 and leave it to her come back if she wants. The thing they troubles me seems to be the importance attached to gifts from both sides as seems to cause nothing but problems. I'm going to guess you are from an affluent background and your DD1 and of course LB know this and see you as nothing more than a cash machine/pack horse who can be used at will. The only person getting hurt here is you and while stepping back will be the hardest thing you'll ever do it seems like the only option otherwise we'll be hearing the same thing happening again and again. Concentrate on building your life and being with your other DDs and if your DD1 wants to make contact then do so on shared terms not only hers

I really feel for you Chopin.

I have been dwelling on your situation today, not least because your DD1 reminds me of my own DSis (a little bit at least).

Dsis is younger than me and was the apple of our mother's eye. Dsis' boyfriend was a rude entitled sort who couldn't understand why the world didn't fall over itself to hand him things, and the more time she spent with him, the more Dsis became of that mindset herself. She also didn't have much time for family back then and avoided us where possible. It was upsetting, but then she was also quite young.

Fast forward many years and our mother died, plus Dsis thankfully ditched the entitled twat and married someone far nicer. She is still living with the consequences of her behaviour to some family members at the time, and has been very upset at the realisation that people remember and don't necessarily forgive just because you've moved on from how you were before. I am almost 100% sure that she would not be dealing with it so maturely if our mum was still alive to smooth her feathers and reassure her (i.e. buffer her from reality). Sometimes we need to feel the anxiety and remorse over what we've done, and I think your DD is terrified of that, but you need to leave her to feel it.

DD1 gets anxious and can't deal with conflict.
This simply isn't true. She lives from conflict to conflict - and it's not just you, not just her sisters, but also the LobsterParents, people selling them houses, wasn't there a medical drama in the past as well?

It was all going well
It wasn't. It was torture. You found the visits incredibly wearing as you tried to navigate the rules.

Her messages to you prior to the blow-up were unacceptably rude - and that seemed to be her voice, rather than LB's. You're not a packhorse to schlep all their crap to Ireland, these stories about packages going missing are clearly a lie to get you to do it and pay for it. And then every question boils down to 'can you do more?'.

You will never be able to do enough for these people. As to social services, the fact is those children supposedly haven't been washed in weeks, there's almost no heating, there's no water for cooking and there's asbestos buried on the property. They won't avail themselves of help from their church, let alone use their considerable means to remedy this situation.

I've got got to say @FermisLeftFoot you've maybe got a point

Did he even see the property before buying it?

Most UK expats abroad would ask visitors to bring one or two things over, stuff such as a jar of marmite or a box of Yorkshire tea bags, not pricey luxury goods.

@ChopinandChampagneI am so sorry that this has happened. I'm especially saddened that you seem to be blaming yourself exclusively for the current state of affairs. I know that you wish you hadn't said certain things, but TBH one can tread on eggshells for only so long. Everything really comes down to money and gifts with your DD, and as soon as you pushed back on lugging so many items to Ireland, she exploded.

Remember what you posted just a couple of days ago: "LB is now apparently saying what progress we have made and welcomes my visit."

And this: "I said the issue obviously went back to the original house, a long time ago now, but the concerns regarding trust related mainly to not advising us of the birth of DGD1. She seemed to accept that and said she thought that things were 'forgiven and forgotten', which is the first time she has alluded to 'forgiveness'."

What has changed since then? Nothing, except your messages about being hesitant to serve as an unpaid courier. Does she usually take that imperious tone with you? I don't mean in the final message, just in the text exchanges, e.g. "I can call you to decide what is important. You will want to be bringing your presents for the children DGD2s birthday. You should have sent anything from amazon directly here!" So rude and disrespectful.

As for her last message, there is some world class projection going on: "You have been very cruel and I believe you do it with an intent to hurt me and manipulate me. You have a warped memory of the past. A warped past which you clearly have no desire to let go of." She is accusing you of exactly what she has done.

I know you love your DD and want to see the best in her. But she continues to be appallingly cruel and manipulative to you. And I can't agree that she's behaving as a good mother should. She is allowing her very young children to live in squalid and potentially dangerous conditions when she has the means to change that immediately.

I do hope that you are able to enjoy Christmas even though you are coping with this extraordinarily painful situation.

The heating broke and a pipe froze in one of the coldest winters on record. That's not their fault

Yes it is their fault, they have the means to rectify the situation but are choosing not to.

It was all going well and I blew it, because I couldn't let go of the past

THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT! And absolute bollocks to boot

The weather in Ireland until the last week and a half has been very mild. I only started to wear my heavy winter jacket in December and not early November as in other winters. Yes, it's cold at the moment (very cold in fact) but not the coldest winter on record. December 2010 was much worse than this. We have ice but no snow. If your daughter is implying it's the coldest winter ever, she really is over egging it. Yes, it's cold enough for burst pipes but as you said, they could get a new boiler and have chosen not to. Or an unpalatable fact to consider is that they have got a new boiler but haven't told you and are depending on your goodwill and caring nature to volunteer the money. Sadly, I think you are being played whatever you do. They play nice when there's something in it for them but when you push back a bit they punish you for it.

That's a good point, actually. I was going to dispute that children who haven't had hot water to be washed in for weeks are well looked after, but actually it's not like you've any way of knowing whether DD1 was telling the truth about any of the boiler stuff OP.

You’ve done nothing wrong. Please be easy on yourself. You’ve been through so much.

Chopin please be kind to yourself.
This was all about control and manipulation, and it was always coming - better now than when you were over there alone.
Things were not all good and recovered, it was not a true relationship, it was built on conditions and threats, walking constantly on egg shells.
I know she is your daughter, you clearly have unconditional love for her and always wanting to see the best in her, but this is someone who ultimately cut you all off, hid her marriage and your first grandchild.... these are not loving, kind or in any way acceptable behaviours.

@ChopinandChampagneI've been lurking on your threads and have not commented until now; there has been much sound advice on here and I haven't anything to add.
I just wanted to wish you a happy Christmas wherever you will be and that you have a peaceful new year.
Please take care of yourself and enjoy your break in the Antipodes.

Nothing more to add - others have said it all - you’ve done nothing wrong.

Of course you are devastated right now - she has been unspeakably cruel

It doesn’t appear that she putting her children first , unless of course as a previous poster has suggested she is exaggerating the severity of their living conditions. It wouldn’t be the first time she’s not been completely honest would it?

I know how absolutely horrible it is to be treated like this by your much loved child-
I really do but please take yourself out of their firing Iine.

As I’ve said before thank goodness for DD2 and DD3
You are very wise not to involve them in this but i do hope you have some real life support from friends who are not so personally involved .

Again you have done nothing wrong .

💐💐💐

Longtime Mumsnetter but infrequent poster.
So many similarities between this story and what happened in my family over many years. An absolutely toxic and amoral person, married to my sibling.
Four beautiful children living almost off the grid in a cold, damp, filthy old house in the countryside. They functioned after a fashion but the children were not being properly cared for and eventually undisputable circumstances led us to report them to social services. In all honesty it should have been done long before then.

What was the hesitation – we were all well educated, were in professions and this sadly led to a feeling of ‘everything is alright’, they are still going to school and seem happy enough.

In retrospect here lies the danger – assume nothing. If anything assume things are worse than you imagine, they probably are. At the root of it all was one very privileged parent whose concern was for themselves and no-one else.
The other parent was under their spell and stumbled along, much to the detriment of their physical and mental health. They had ticked all the boxes of the ‘intellectual living off the grid’ but their lives were a lie.

I understand your need to feel the DCs are well cared for. How on earth could it be any other way? Well it could. Abuse surfaces in many ways and the abuser has no concern for those whose lives they are destroying. Indeed they (many years) afterwards still feel that everyone else was to blame for it falling apart.
This was in spite of formal cautions from the police.

The reality is that if you know there is neglect or abuse going on, even if you only suspect it, you are condoning it.

It was all going well and I blew it, because I couldn't let go of the past.

It was going as well as it could what with you walking on eggshells all the time. It was going to be blown when they decided they'd had enough of playing nice.

There's plenty of talk about your daughter being in an abusive relationship. You are neck deep in one yourself. But if you insist on waiting till they want to speak to you again then carrying on the same way you've been doing you're just setting yourself up for more heartbreak when the same thing happens again and again and again.

I hope one day you see how toxic and abusive they both are, not just him, and can step away from them.

I suspect in rural Ireland no heating isn't unusual due to lack of money

Really? What do you base this on, may I ask?

There are 90 boots stores all over Ireland, with the products mentioned in many other pharmacies also. Which doesn't really matter. Although I don't think your dd has treated you very well, I don't think she is in a position to stand up to lb (I always think of lazy bollox instead of lobster boy when is see lb written)
I think this fall out was going to happen anyway because he would not welcome you seeing him in the position they are in at the moment in case he may seem inferior and unable to provide but probably couldn't say it beford this as would be showing his hand to dd1.
For previous posters, SS in Ireland haven't the time or resources to pursue an allegation made from a different country about a 2 parent family who own theìr own home and have a burst pipe with no history of abuse. C&C would be vilified by lb for ever more for what he would call a spiteful reaction to not being welcome and it would come to nothing only causing more harm than good.
I am delighted you are not visiting Ireland as I think you need to surround yourself with love and positivity at the moment , you will not get that in Ireland with lb around.
I agree that if you keep handing over money she will never leave him or he will never leave her, but also understand as a mother why you keep doing it. Sending you much love this Christmas you are honestly after doing all you can with regards to your daughter. Please try to have a good Christmas xxx

Thank you for all of your lovely, kind replies, which are really helping me! Feeling a bit more positive now. I sort of knew that this would happen again sometime - maybe, subconsciously, I prompted it, in order to get it over with. I remember a 'team building' exercise at work, which involved climbing a terrifyingly tall tower - I volunteered, just to get it over with!

DD2 has been messaging about organising some theatre tickets and also about plans for Christmas Day, so we will speak shortly, and that will cheer me up. Interestingly, DD1 mentioned that she holds DD2 responsible for a lot of things. I think there was a sibling jealousy issue at play, in that we got on much better with DD2's boyfriend of the time than LB, although DD2 and her boyfriend subsequently split up. Her current boyfriend is lovely and will be coming on Christmas Day.

I sense that a few Irish people may have been a bit offended by any suggestion that some luxury goods and services may be limited. I know that Ireland is a very beautiful and sophisticated country and, like most places, virtually everything is available in the main cities, although less so in the rural parts. DD1 is about two hours from Dublin, but LB would never go, as he hates cities, and they haven't had a car until recently, just a van. There is also the logistical problem of going anywhere with three little ones, and LB wouldn't be prepared to 'waste' money on 'fripperies', in any event, whether on line or elsewhere.

And beautiful though Ireland is, I am quite relieved not to be going. It would be dreadful to have a row in person and just be stranded there alone!

Glad to hear that you are not going. Relax and enjoy your Christmas.

DD1 needs to blame everyone but hereself…

i think you mentioned lb turned off the boiler? A frozen pipe should not stop a boiler heating the house as its a closed loop and doesnt need an external supply. No hot water of course.

maybe this exchange is the lance that bursts the boil. A moment of pain.

re whats app, if dd1 has a photo on it and you now cant see it then you’ve been blocked.
do you pay for it still? If so please stop. They will soon enough buy their own and get in contact when they need more cows or sheep or luxury goods they are too alternative to buy themselves.

oh and you are not week and feeble otherwise how would you have had a successful career?

i think one of the most important things to realise is that its perfectly possible to love your children unconditionally whilst at the same time hating the adults they have become

I have just had a good chat with DD2, who is sooo like DH, intelligent, sensible and pragmatic.

I said I wasn't going to Ireland now and, when she asked why, explained in a low key way, without being too dramatic. She just said, step back, don't get upset about it, don't keep buying them gifts, it just upsets you, let them come to you. She sounded amused at their conversion/'latest antics' and said I had probably avoided a long and boring service!

So I am definitely feeling better than this morning.

Glad you are feeling better. Glad you are also taking to DD2.

LB is horrible. Your daughter isn't much better.

Ignoring is the best thing you can do. Please don't send any gifts. Keep some for the GC if you must, return the rest.

I'll wager they'll try be in touch when they want something. Gifts etc.

Please please believe you haven't done anything wrong here. Nothing you have said or done would have changed this.