Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

[gianfrancogorgonzola]

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

'Like gravitates to like'. I wrote this on one of your earliest threads Chopin, and I've seen nothing since that makes me feel differently.

When my son's behaviour deteriorated, I felt as though people blamed us as his parents. Then things got so bad, I didn't care what others believed, I just did what I needed to do to protect my loved ones.

Many years have passed and it's been peaceful. He has his own path to tread, which doesn't include his family.

I hope you can come to terms with the things life has thrown at you Chopin. I understand how hard that must be, especially since losing your DH.

Oh @ChopinanChampagne so sorry for you but not the least surprised.

Completely predictable and so it will go on while you continue to do this dance with them.

I agree with @Grumpusaurus completely.

You are yourself in the grips of an abusive triangulation and are not prepared to accept your daughters part in this.

I too am astounded by the conditions she is prepared to rear her children in, especially during this period of awful weather.

No heating nor water for weeks?

I have frankly never heard the like of it.

Absolute neglect, which she is a willing party too.

Whatever kind of messed up madness LB is, she is their mother.

She has utterly put him ahead of her children, which is truly dreadful.

Your inability to hold HER to account for the conditions she is prepared to have her children in, is very sad.

I think you really need to look at that, because I don't believe she has ever been held to account.

I have 4 children whom I adore, but that doesn't mean I am unable to see them, for who they are, flaws and all.

Whatever else has gone on in the past, today she has three children being reared in what looks like abject poverty that should indeed be flagged to SS.

From your very first post nearly 5 years ago it was about money, and so it is now.

How much she can extract from you.

I know entitled children, I have 4 of them!

They are blessed through circumstances, but my goodness the level of entitlement she exhibits has been completely off the scale.

She is utterly unconcerned with how you lug more luggage than a family of 6 would bring with them, just as long as you do it.

She could care less that any young person would struggle with this load, not to mind her elderly mother.

Her complete lack of care for YOU, is chilling, but it is consistent with her ability to have her children living in the conditions you describe.

As we can all read clearly her tone instantly changed to abuse as you appeared to not be prepared to fulfil your deigned role.

I really hope you understand how much we genuinely care for you, through the ether, and want the best for you.

You desperately want your daughter to see sense and WE want the very same for YOU.

The only play here is to stop the merry-go-round that she has you on.

I’m so sorry Chopin.

So many wise words have been said already but I just wanted to express support- insofar as you can on an anonymous forum - and wish you well.

You need time to process and reflect. I hope there are people IRL that can help you with that, and that you find a way forward that allows you to move towards peace of mind.

You are clearly an intelligent, resourceful and insightful woman, as well as a loving and generous parent. I’m wishing you all the best.

I'm so sorry you received that disgusting message from LB.

I wouldn't reply - I'd be too tempted to say "I'm sorry you feel the need to lie to me. I'll be here when you're ready to be honest."

Those kids need some sort of intervention and help. I'd rather risk estrangement and push for welfare checks on those poor kids!

And yes. I feel this is the salient point now. Let them hate you. Can you contact LB's parents to see if there is anything you can do together in terms of getting outside help involved?

I agree. They are being neglected. They are at physical risk due to the living conditions they're being forced to endure.

I think my fear of the damage to DGC who have no choice but to suffer would override my fear of the damage to my relationship with DD.

Imagine having to live with way those kids do. I really think that a report needs to be made OP.

Poor little things 😞

I suspect that the business of getting the gifts brought across and your many (imagined) transgressions are not the only factors operating here.

I suspect that LB was spooked by you having lunch with a Franciscan friar who may know an order near you. LB has no idea what you have said and may assume the worst. He has worked hard to keep you separate from their life there e.g by not inviting you to the baptism. In my experience Catholic clergy can be great gossips! Apologies to anyone who thinks I am being unfair! LB will be aware that he and your daughter may come under scrutiny and exposure now.

n.b. if I knew where they lived I would have no hesitation about reporting them to Irish social services. LB and your daughter are wilfully keeping their children in sub-standard conditions.

I’m a long-time lurker and I wanted to add my voice to the chorus of sympathy, Chopin.

What strikes me is how even before your DD sent you the vicious message, the friendly exchange was all about what items she wanted you to get for her. She and LB are very materialistic and her relationship with you seems very focused on gifts and material things, as others have pointed out.

The other thing that stands out to me is how one-sided it all is. You were flying over to see her for Christmas at considerable hassle and expense. If my mum were coming to visit, I’d be getting things ready for her, getting her favourite foods in, asking her what she wanted for Christmas. In short, making a fuss over her and making her feel welcome! But in the case of your DD, all the kindness seems to go one way. It seems that her magnanimously allowing you to grace her family with your presence is the only kindness she can extend – and even that is abruptly jerked away when her mood changes.

I come from a highly dysfunctional family myself, and since leaving home I’ve always had huge anxiety around gifts – am I giving enough gifts, are they the right gifts and so on. I spent loads of money for years on my parents and siblings, especially around the holidays, and it seems so clear to me now that I’m older that I was trying to repair family rifts through presents. It just doesn’t work. In the case of my DSis, I was always walking on eggshells around her as she was so resentful of me, and she finally cut me off completely some years ago, which was incredibly painful but ended up being a kind of blessing, as so much stress was removed from my life. I still grieve for the lack of relationship with my nieces and nephews, but I hope they can contact me in their own right if they want to when they’re older.

My DH has a much more functional family. They don’t worry about gifts; instead they ring each other to chat on birthdays and Christmas and throughout the year (they live abroad). What matters isn’t the gifts but the connection. It all seems so simple and guilt-free. That’s the way a normal family relationship should be. You don’t have to be proving all the time that you love your family member enough. You just take their love for granted and they do the same.

I’ve dropped my end of the rope with my DSis (not that she gave me much choice, but even so, I’ve mentally dropped it myself now!) and during the holidays I focus on the people who love me unconditionally. I’m lucky enough to have a core group of those!

You’ve had loads of good advice on this thread, and I admire the way you’ve tried to navigate everything. I hope for the sake of you and your younger DDs that you can detach yourself from this toxic dynamic, starting by not replying to that awful message. Good luck!

Oh @ChopinandChampagne 😢 I’m so sorry that it came to this but not surprised.
The other people put it more eloquently but please protect yourself otherwise you’re going to make yourself very ill. You’re already up at all hours which only shows the turmoil you’re in.

DD1 is your daughter and always will be but she’s also very abusive towards you. Projecting a lot of her behaviour and DARVO.

Please respect her wish for space. Block any form of communication for at least 3 months. No phone calls,mails,messages or SM contact.

Please get in touch with counsellor again, pretty sure the very knowledgeable folk in here will point you towards what kind of therapist you need.

Oh,and please return all the stuff that was meant to go to Ireland.

Take care 💐💐💐((()))

Sorry you're dealing with this pain. It's time to let go of the fantasy that you can have any kind of relationship here.

The only useful thing you can do is raise child protection concerns. That has to be your priority. I know that's not the territory you want to be in, but it's where you are, like it or not.

Hi @ChopinandChampagne I just wanted to add i. Was really sad (for you) to see your update. I see you've had some excellent advice. I would however add that having witnessed a similar dynamic with my grandparents and my uncle, I would absolutely NOT be forwarding gifts etc to LB's family. The fact they have assumed you will beggars belief, but putting that aside by going along with their request will simply be rewarding them for their appalling treatment of you.

Return and/or donate everything to charity. They either want you, not what you can do for and / or supply them. Or they don't.

As others have said you've done nothing wrong and you're not going to get any sense or fairness out of them. In my case, on my uncle having bled my grandparents dry and waxing lyrical about what crap parents they were, he was entirely unapologetic and frankly of no use. The maximum effort he expended when my grandma was in hospital was to rummage around her flat and steal thousands of pounds in cash she had hidden (he admitted it when my grandmother asked). even after they died all he was interested in was trying to get as much of their estate as possible. What I'm telling you this as my grandparents always turned the other cheek, indulged my uncle when he deigned to grace them with his presence and were continually slapped down and taken advantage of. He behaviour was utterly callous and cruel and not that dissimilar to the way you're being treated now.

I'm not saying cut dd1 off for good, but you really do need to draw a line under this behaviour to protect yourself. If you do reply, text you love her and the door is always open to her and then leave it. It will be painful, but look at how much pain and anxiety you're experiencing anyway by engaging with this.

Lastly, don't feel bad posting. You're being treated very cruelly and need support. I do hope you have a lovely Christmas and wish you the best for the new year.

Hello Chopin

When I read the thread up till a couple of days ago, I thought that your grandchildren were being neglected and that the best course of action would be to somehow involve social services. I feel that is even more imperative now that you're not going to see them. Other posters have also suggested this, and I think you must do this.

Are you afraid they'll think it's you? I think that ship has now sailed. Both LB and your daughter are abusing you. Yes, she's in thrall to him, but she wants to be there, she wants that life. And you have been dancing to their tune for five years!

You must really take several steps back. The poster who suggested getting your affairs in order and writing letters for your grandchildren is right. You will never be allowed a proper relationship with them and you must know that. This scenario you now find yourself in has been played out over and over and over again over the years, yet (and I say this gently) you keep walking straight back into it. You keep allowing them to control you. For your own sanity, you must stop. Nothing will ever change in this relationship, so I truly believe it must be bereaved instead of you trying to continually resuscitate it.

You have two other wonderful daughters. Spend the time that you're spending on DD1 on them, instead. It will be so much more rewarding.

Ah Chopin please don’t listen to some of the posters on here! We all pitch in with suggestions but your life is your own and you are perfectly able to make your own decisions. It is not for any of us to say what you should or shouldn’t do next.

My guess is that DD1 mentioned once too often how much she was looking forward to a nice hot bath and meal, courtesy of you. LB knew that he was losing control and the axe came down. The fact that you mentioned there wasn’t a present for him personally (to reject) probably also stuck in his craw! He has probably made up with his parents again so now it’s their turn to get on the merry go round again while he can still get their stuff. Oh, and how very dare you have lunch and an interesting discussion with a monk!

I would maintain complete and utter radio silence for the next few weeks. Nothing. Nada. I would also not pass on any of their belongings, but that is because I’m a far meaner human that you.

I have never heard of Amazon orders not being delivered in Ireland, or being held up at customs for tax. It is harder to get some retailers to sell to customers in Ireland as there are so many forms, customs declarations etc to complete. However, once they deliver to Ireland,
customs etc is paid in advance.
Prime is great in Ireland.
If your daughter has prime, she could select prime only. That way she could easily order for quick delivery.
I have a feeling your daughter / LB were using this as a reason to get you to buy, pay, and deliver things to them

I'm sorry things have gone pear-shaped again. I wonder if it's because you said you'd talked to a Franscican and mentioned them. My sister is a tricky character. Talking about her to a 3rd party is an absolute no-no and starts rants, even if it was a simple 'bumped into x, they asked after you and said hi'. If they aren't seriously committed to the church but baptised the children for school purposes, they probably don't want the pressure of Franscicans knowing about them. Going forward, if the relationship gets back on track (which I suspect it will when they need something paid for) either don't talk about them or don't tell them you have.

I'm sorry you're going through this but echo what many pp have said. Your daughter wants/LB allows a relationship when they need something from you. It's abusive but you can step off that cycle if you want to. Someone earlier mentioned an account for her for when she hopefully leaves LB.
I think that's a great idea, provided you don't tell her about it. Anything you would spend on her put in the account.

I would do token gifts from now on for the adults and small gifts for the children. Don't ask what they want as that gives them an opening to tell you that you got it wrong. Send them clothes, the latest plastic tat or whatever and if there are complaints be breezy with 'I thought they'd like it'. Don't apologise if you get complaints. I didn't appreciate the toy drum my son was given but it was a present so I wasn't rude so didn't tell the gift giver. My son loved it, which was the whole point of the gift. Take the power back by having no financial involvement and by not allowing them to criticise you. Behind the scene you'll be upset but don't let them see it.

I would also change my will, bypassing your daughter in favour of the grandchildren but tying the money up until they are at least 25. I'd include a letter explaining that money seems to have been at the heart of the relationship difficulties so wanted to take it out of the equation completely. They have enough money, without needing yours. I doubt you will do that but it is what I
would do. I couldn't reward an abuser, which is what both currently are (your daughter allows LB to abuse you so is complicit).

I wish you all the best. Families can be heartbreaking at times.

Sorry that was so long and sorry the formatting is a mess. My WiFi went dodgy just as it posted.

Dear Chopin.

I'm so sorry to hear about the latest problems.

I've thought of you often over the years, have followed and commented on your threads previously (name change) and it's so sad to see that despite the recent thaw in the relationship, it sounds like fundamentally not much has changed.

Of course the reply is straight from LB's mouth. You have said that DD1 was looking forward to your visit and enjoyed dressing up to go out with you, so it is clear that this message is not her idea. She has probably agreed to send it as she is being forced into choosing between him and you. She has bowed to his pressure to banish you because it is easier to upset you than him. But why has he done this now?

I think he realises that DD1 is on the edge (no heating & hot water; 3 children & animals to look after; no doubt being on the end of rants about you) and that if you visit she might tip towards the unconditional love & comfort that you bring. He has engineered the argument over the crosses to cause a further rift and will now cast you as the baddie when the presents do not arrive. Your presence when things are uncomfortable for them will only remind her of what she used to have and he certainly doesn't want that. Also, it is a perfect time for him to cause the most amount of hurt to you. I believe he has deliberately allowed you to have a relationship with the DGCs so that you have an emotional connection to them and that he can use it for leverage. Now he has done this, he knows you will be devastated at not seeing them at Christmas and will feel guilty about the gifts not arriving. I have no doubt that he will be enjoying inflicting pain on you and that he is eyeing up an opportunity in the future for you to make amends so that you can see them again (more money perchance?)

It is a cycle that is playing out over and over again. How will it stop? Can you cope with the constant walking on eggshells (those rules!) not knowing when you will be banished again? Or would it be better to have a break from contact? As they have asked for space, I think the matter is out of your hands currently, but how you deal with it now could break the cycle for the future. You need to harden your heart to protect yourself.

When you were going to go to Ireland, I was going to suggest that you try to privately talk to DD1 about her social and financial isolation and that you believed she was a victim of abuse. She might not have believed it, but it might have sown a seed. Is there any way to speak to her alone? Any time LB might be out of the house that you could call her? Probably not if he controls the phone…and I bet he has a tight hold of it now in case you reply so he can read it first.

If you do reply, make it a very short one. Many of the messages you send to them are very wordy and explanatory. It seems like you think that if you just explain your point of view, they will understand where you are coming from. This will not work with LB. He doesn't care for your explanations and will twist anything you say to suit his agenda. It's tempting to tell them that you have changed your will, but I expect that LB would twist that into you only thinking about money. Instead, I would send a simple message to say that you disagree with their analysis of your relationship but accept that they no longer want contact with you and that you will always love DD1 & the grandchildren and will be there whenever they need you. Make no mention of LB – they can draw their own conclusions.

I would also make no mention of the presents. I am astounded that they expected you to be a pack horse and carry the stuff over to them, then they send that message effectively saying that they do not want any contact yet still expect you to sort out the presents by posting them! It really does compound what they expect from you - material goods only. So no more presents, no more money, no more propping up this lifestyle to make them more comfortable. Remeber that the more unpleasant DD1's life is, the more likely the scales will fall from her eyes.

I hope one day DD1 will open her eyes to her reality and will leave him. At the moment it doesn't sound likely, but as many people have said over the years…she has to hit rock bottom and realise who is causing her to be upset. If you are not in the picture, you cannot be blamed.

I agree with others to write letters to your DD1 and your grandchildren to be held by the lawyer, increase the age that the DGCs can inherit to 25 and to leave a share for DD1 to be made available only if she is divorced from LB. Then try to detach and to concentrate on DD2, DD3 and your own welbeing.

I am so very sorry that this has happened to you. Every post you write shows what a loving, thoughtful, intelligent woman you are.

Sending love, best wishes and support to you from snowy Scotland.

Just also to chime in again because some people quite understandably have a outdated perception of ye olde Ireland to be sure, with this talk of remote farmhouses with shit conditions and no heating as if that's common. It has its ups and downs for sure but it is currently a wealthy country, with much higher GDP per capita than the UK. $79k to $43k. A lot of this is due to being a bit of a tax haven currently which may change, but right now, it's not some 3rd world poverty zone, far from it.

I bif between several countries and I do think people have to change their perception of Ireland as it has changed profoundly in the last fifty years. It's a bit like Sweden - a hundred years ago Sweden was extremely poor with high emigration to the US and even to here, it is now a highly evolved modern state. Ireland is on the same road, especially as the last English speaking country in the EU.

The biggest problem most young families have in Ireland is being able to afford to buy or rent somewhere - house prices and land are astronomically dear - but Chopin's daughter does not have this problem. She may have no heating, but LB and her are CHOOSING this.

Also, I just checked what child benefit they would receive - €696.70 per month, much higher than UK, can any ROI people confirm? (I'm over the border). Also, having renovated many times here, I have never heard of someone not having heating, certainly not down the country where people often prefer a big comfy newbuild to a damp but aesthetically pleasing cottage or farmhouse. My builders are farmers and their houses are newbuild palaces with every mod con. These conditions are really not routine - maybe eighty years ago, but not now.

Basically, they have no mortgage, no rent, no school fees, are thrifty (not to say mean), get enough of a whack of benefits to cover a lot of groceries. They have themselves well organised!

@Nepoyeah @ChopinandChampagne the amount of child benefit they are entitled to in Ireland is €420 per month. As they are UK citizens, they are entitled to it immediately. However, if they are not paying tax, they might find it difficult to meet the habitual residence criteria, although if one of the children is at school that will make it easier as it provides evidence of residence (sorry, can't remember the age of the eldest child). I'm sure LB will find a way to ensure he can prove habitual residence but the easiest way is by working and paying tax.

I think only the most truly uneducated would suppose that the conditions described are anything but appalling and out of the ordinary in Ireland, north or south.

The OP wrote that they bought some little holding with some acreage in the back end of nowhere with some deluded idea they would make a project of it, when infact it appears they were sold an overpriced pup by probably some wily character who saw them coming.

The West of Ireland facing the Atlantic is truly beautiful, but in the depths of winter I would imagine its a tough gig if the normal creature comforts aren't a given.

No more than NW England or Scotland would be in similar living conditions.

They have vainly chosen this life, well LB for sure.

Abusive controlling men love to live off grid if they can, home school and basically stay as far away from prying authorities that might ask questions.

These living conditions would raise a flag in any of the countries mentioned.

These are not normal living conditions.

After some reflection and noticing patterns of speech in many posts that are similar for different people, plus the seeming indifference to neglected kids I’ll say this and then i’m out -

It’s quite difficult to believe that a young family are choosing to live like this and the immediate family who are aware of the situation are not reporting it to the authorities but worrying more about fancy gifts. Very hard to believe. That’s all i’m saying.

@billy1966 I completely agree with you, someone upthread had said that their conditions, ie very rural with no heating, would not be worthwhile reporting to ss or equivalent as not that unusual in Ireland, and I think that yes, they really are in this day and age! Sometimes people do get a bit of a picture in their mind and it's hard to dislodge it. Definitely bleak on the west coast, but again, far less cold at the moment than say scotland (aberdeen, brrr)

Also all the 'can you get me this mum, can't you carry all those things we can't get here' is utter rubbish I think. They just want Chopin to pay for it, and they don't care if that means she has to lug it all for them on her own through an airport in treacherous conditions at a price of £70 per bag. It's all absolute nonsense. If ChopinDD1 wants cashmere and silk and Dubarry boots and organic skincare, she's easily served by a day trip to Dublin or Kildare Village or any big city. I feel she's manipulating, or LB is manipulating, Chopin into thinking these things aren't readily available.

I do also agree that it sounds like they were sold a pup re the land itself though.

I am truly sorry Chopin I really am.
if there is any good to come out this its that maybe this is a straw that broke the camels back.
Find your anger.
Have they paid for the items you currently have?
If so, dont pay them back. If you paid then they are yours to return of gift to those that might really appreciate them.

I really hope you haven’t paid for the cow. And please stop paying for the phone if you haven’t already done so.

Thank you so much for all your replies.

I don't think there are grounds to report to SS. DD1 is a good mother, loves her DC, who are well fed and cared for. The heating broke and a pipe froze in one of the coldest winters on record. That's not their fault, although I don't understand why they don't just pay for a new boiler. LB's Dos will be visiting soon anyway and I am sure they would say if anything were untoward.

I am not going to reply to the last message, but I think I have been blocked anyway, as the WhatsApp doesn't show when they were on line, either that or they have altered their settings in some way. It's the old horrible nightmare being replayed, except this time I don't have DH to support me (and I am not going to lean on DD2 and DD3, who have enough to deal with, after the loss of their Dad and Granny).

I am not going to lie, I feel devastated, immobilised, pathetic, helpless, an abject failure, not to mention self-pitying. It was all going well and I blew it, because I couldn't let go of the past. DD1 gets anxious and can't deal with conflict.

Maybe I'll feel differently tomorrow, but that's how I feel now.

Completely agree. The fact that he was a clear "outsider", probably an arrogant one, would have given the sale a special piqancy!

A sport replayed the world over🤷🏻‍♀️.

NI is known for gorgeous textiles, as is Eire, there is absolutely no question in my mind, bar possibly specific English specialist products, there is NOTHING that couldn't be normally sourced and delivered with ease.....but at a cost.......and they have zero desire to pay for anything they can extract from the OP.

LB wants you to feel like that, OP. Why let him dictate your feelings?