Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

[gianfrancogorgonzola]

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

Thanks everyone who has replied, especially at such an unearthly hour.

Yes, I do have pets, a dog and a cat, who are a comfort to me, as well, of course, as my other DDs, but I am not going to burden them with this. We do not speak of DD1 unless they ask how she is. I will not let this spoil their Christmas and will be happy and jolly with them, although we miss DH still, of course.

The argument is not about deliveries. My understanding is that Amazon deliver to Ireland, although more limited items, as do Cambridge Baby. I think the problem is not even so much that tax is payable, but that parcels get stopped by customs or don't turn up.

The argument arises from my getting upset over the crosses and saying the things I said, including that she had never really explained why she had cut us off and not told us about DGD1, only that LB had told her to, which wasn't even the beginning of a reason - that nobody who really loved someone would want them to be cut off from their family. I said I was 'surplus to requirements' and when she told LB about our conversation, he would make her cut me off again. And of course that is exactly what has happened.

I even recognise some of LB's words and phrases in the latest message, which echoes earlier communications. The modus operandi, messing people around on visits and dates etc, is also totally predictable. Fortunately, I can cancel the hotel, taxis, pet sitters etc, so will only lose the cost of the flights, but they don't know that. To be honest, part of me is relieved that I don't have to go. I am never comfortable when he is around, as he's like a spectre at the feast.

I wasn't planning to reply to the message, as I will be communicating with LB, not DD1, which is what he wants. I actually feel very sorry for DD1 in all this, as she was genuinely so happy to have me back in her life and was so looking forward to my visit.

I don't know about the gifts and other stuff. I don't want to let the DGC down but, realistically, they are too young to know, and I don't have the emotional energy to deal with this right now.

Selfridgessanta - thank you so much for your supportive post, which effectively crossed with mine, but reflects exactly my thoughts in a number of respects. I have already reported my post - unfortunately, I posted when I was too upset to proofread correctly.

@ChopinandChampagne i know exactly how you feel. I feel like the last four years of my life have been a horrible dream.

As a distraction when I can’t sleep I’ve actually found the Harry and Meghan shitshow to be of comfort as this sort of situation can even happen in the Royal Family….Watching H become enthralled to a woman (who IMO has a personality disorder) and who has removed him from his support network and is now apparently helping him rewrite history is not too far away from your own situation. He’s also in a hostage situation and looks IMO unhappy for it all.

So sorry this has happened @ChopinandChampagne - safely predictable but hugely upsetting nonetheless. Your DGCs will be none the wiser about the stuff so I wouldn't worry about sending it. Hope you can immerse yourself in the love of the rest of your family over the next few weeks be kind to yourself, you've done nothing wrong here

*sadly predictable

I'm sorry to hear this Chopin, I was hoping you would go a few more days with good relations.

One thing to think about: you say this isn't about you being unable to take the gifts. Of course it is! Take a step back and look at the sequence of messages, DD1/LB only 'drew back' when you could not comply with what was being asked of you. DD1 did not raise all these 'important' points until then. If she was that angry at you for the conversation, it is strange she waited until your courier service wasn't meeting standards.

With people like this you cannot get bogged down in the nuances of what they say, that is what they want you to do. You have done nothing wrong and yet here you are, still blaming yourself.

Please, take a step back and look at the actual sequence of events and what is being asked of you. The reason this happened is not because 'you lost control' it is because of them and how they treat you.

I hope you manage to get some sleep and feel slightly better in the morning

Chopin, I know I come across as harsh. I have followed this entire saga for several years in many guises. I mostly held my tongue but I am not posting now to heap scorn on you or to upset you further. On the contrary, I feel so very saddened that you are being manipulated and used. A year or so ago, you seemed to have made some real progress in realising that your D1 was in fact abusive towards you and you were full of 'fighting talk' about taking back control. Yet, you undid all of your good work on your boundaries and relinquished a lot of power, leaving yourself so very vulnerable. I appreciate that you feel better for sharing and like all of the soothing 'there, there' responses but in reality, it might be better if people became a bit blunter, since you are repeating the same cycle of abuse over and over and now it involves children that need someone to advocate for them.

It really does not matter if your daughter is using the bloody crosses as a stick to beat you with. That's just an excuse, if not that it would be another totally irrelevant matter. You cannot argue with a manipulative narcissist like your daughter. This is not black and white with Lobster Boy being the sole villain. She has some serious issues herself and you will be on a road to immense pain if you continue to think if only she would leave him, all would be well. She is as much the architect in your ongoing abuse than he is.

What really shocks me is that no one does anything to actually safeguard the children's welfare! I am so gobsmacked that you are hand wringing about the poor DSG, living in a total slum, blaming it all on LB. We have had countless threads over the years, where we quite rightly condemn, pathetic women failing to protect their children from neglect and abuse. Your daughter is precisely doing that! She is utterly complicit in the severe neglect of her defenseless children! Are you going to wait until they get life threatening respiratory illnesses until you accept that your daughter needs to do better by them? When will you stop seeing her as this poor victim and recognise that she is guilty of failing to provide the absolute basics for her children! If they survive this grim childhood, will they understand why everyone pandered to their parents and did nothing to stop them living in such appalling conditions? We quite rightly hold women accountable that fail to protect their children from being abused by their partners. This is no longer about just your daughter and LB. Those kids need some sort of intervention and help. I'd rather risk estrangement and push for welfare checks on those poor kids!

I believe this is really about your unwillingness to totally comply with their demands and bring everything over they wanted, eg Amazon, calendula cream, parcels, baby clothes, mittens etc etc. You said you couldn’t carry it all, they said bring 2 cases, when you still said it was too much (which it is) they asked about an Amazon order too, I know it must hurt you, but it’s just so grasping of them, they are just using and manipulating you. I say manipulating as they dangle the promise of a visit to the DGC and a few reasonable texts, before abusing once more, when you don’t 100% comply with their demands.
They don’t care that you are a sole traveller laden down with their stuff, and how difficult and uncomfortable it would be at this time of year. They would rather you struggle through airports and transport rather than they pay the duty (that they owe through their own choices!!) They thought they had reeled you back in, and felt comfortable to demand more stuff from you, they just want total compliance from you, can you see this? Please protect yourself and concentrate on your two other DD’s who don’t abuse you in this way.
As an aside, why can’t they do their own Amazon order? Aveeno or an equivalent moisturiser, baby mittens and calendula cream surely will be sold in Ireland ? Why is the only acceptable solution that you bring it to them? Its absolutely bonkers to expect this from you.
You say they have the means to fix the boiler, we’ll they need to put their hands in their pocket and damn well do it. No doubt when it gets totally unbearable, you’ll be reeled back in and invited over for another visit just in time to pay for a new one for them.

@Grumpusaurus blunt and to the point, but I do agree with you.

I'm so sorry about this OP. Sadly it was as predictable as the tides though.

Oh Chopin how utterly predictable was.

As I said in an earlier post, I had an abuser, just like LB and lived with him for over 10 years (that was 25 years ago) here's my breakdown of what happened

You pulled back from them, took back control by telling them you'd return the gifts and insinuated no further gifts would come their way - they stepped towards you because they both saw their gravy train leaving. They did this by sending a nice email and inviting you over to see DD and DGC

You jumped at the chance as they knew you would. But (and this is the important thing), you didn't bend over backwards to accommodate all their requests, such as bringing x amount of suitcases full of things for them and not arranging a Waitrose delivery.

This is the crunch point. If you had, they'd have allowed you to visit. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the contents of the email. Because you didn't do what they wanted, they are exerting control again by sending that message. The message is exactly what you said to DD during your last disagreement - they are mirroring what you said to them. Why? Because actually you've not done anything wrong and they can't find anything to hold against you. It's 'A' typical abusive behaviour. You see lots of threads in here where cheaters accuse their dw of affairs when they are having the affair, they are deflecting their wrong doings into you. Seeing the world as they see it. That's what LB and DD are doing.

I'm sure DD was looking forward to seeing you and did appear happy to see you last time, but because you treaded so carefully. An abuser isn't awful all the time, if they were no one would interact with them. LB doesn't have to be nice as he has DD, DD does have to be nice to reel you back in when she needs you.

My advice is email your dd back, tell her that you know she's in an abusive relationship and will always be there for her if she needs you. But for now you'll be taking a step back, for your own mental health and wish her a merry Christmas. Then don't contact her again, you could send her a message every 6 months or so reiterating what you've just said. Like an alcoholic, she needs to hit rock bottom before reaching out. I know I did.

Also, could we just remember that Ireland is a wealthy well connected country which tbh has quite a consumerist bent at times (I am Irish but lived in England for 21 years!) I think they are well pulling the wool over your eyes about what they can and can’t get? Since when was aveeno and weleda hard to get?

Is there anyone living in proper remote ireland who can confirm or deny that it is a remote outpost with few shopping amenities?

I am renovating at the moment and ordering all sorts of ‘trade’ goods as well as the usual Christmas stuff, had to get an import number for some flooring getting hauliered over but zero other problems.

Also is that message the tone in which she normally speaks to you?

Please cancel all the arrangements now, so you're not tempted to hustle over there anyway if/when they relent (ie realise the golden goose is getting away).

Whatever happens now, please don't go for Christmas.

I am
so glad you are not going you sound lovely and she sounds horrible, have a lovely Christmas spending time with those family members that love you xxx she chose to live remotely in a wrecked house in rural Ireland let her experience the freezing cold and isolation with support from friends and family it’s her choice

Its not unsurprising this has happened, I am sorry for the mental strain you are under from them.

It could have been you asking about the water situation that kicked off an argument between them.

I hope you can get a refund on your flights and hotel booking (have a feeling that you will be out of pocket by €€€ though which will please LB) At least you won’t have to worry about getting stopped by Customs.

Any response should be short. “As you wish, will send gifts to LB parents to pass on” etc.

Because it is just painful.

I'm curious to know whether or not you've transferred the £1k for the cow already.

When you are up to it return everything you can and if LB come and collect the other stuff then let them otherwise charity shop.

The change in tone in those messages is night and day.

Detach detach detach for your own sanity.

I'm not sure child welfare will be interested I suspect in rural Ireland no heating isn't unusual due to lack of money and they can't force LB to fix it.

I have one of these in my family (it’s my parent) controlling, jealous, mean, angry if they are not getting their own way, lies about things, punishes you for not doing what they want. The only way is to stop playing the game I tried for 24 years then stopped they didn’t notice as they only care about their own feelings not anyone else’s much love to you and I hope you have a peaceful Christmas

I’m truly sorry Chopin (if sadly, not surprised). I honestly wouldn’t even reply.

Let her (him?) be the one checking the phone regularly for an update, with a sinking feeling each time.

Your daughter will definitely be feeling regretful over the loss of hot showers and hotel cooked meals. But this is the life she chose.

Don’t get sucked into making alternative arrangements for presents or couriering anything over. If they’re that desperate for their goods, they should have treated you more respectfully.

I would put all of their packages and presents away, out of sight and eat anything perishable, such as chocolate!

Oh and cancel the cow!!! They surely can’t expect to speak to you in such cruel terms and still benefit from your kindness and generosity.

Sorry I didn’t see that you could cancel the hotel and taxis. Still galling to not get a refund on the flights.

I'm also truly amazed that they think they can rain a tirade of abuse onto you, then request you still send the gifts. If you send the gifts, even the ones for the dgc, don't expect any thanks, chances are it will be another stick to hit you with - the crosses and previous gifts you've said are testimony to that

It’s a bit like a system and you are a cog in it that is assigned a role.

I expect that the physical and emotional situation in their home and relationship has heightened due to the cold and mess created by LB’s delusional schemes - and as he/they have no intellectual capacity for introspection they need to discharge their frustrations and find a target to blame.

Seems this target shifts - it was you for years - then his parents - and now back to you.

If you read up on abusive relationships and dysfunctional families you will see that they have a very standard structure and dynamic. It’s basically a system when the unprocessed emotional deregulation of one person is discharged and shunted around the system.

You can see this when you step back and step up - but it’s not visible to you when you get too close.

I might observe that this has crept up on you as there are so many things that you are involved in doing for them in the run up to this trip.

It hurts I am sure - but maybe take from it that it could have been worse - they may have pulled this stunt after you had humped their hoard all the way to Ireland before seeing the DGC and left you high and dry in a hotel on your own.

Detach with love - but love yourself more. Try not to be preoccupied with them - what they need, when they will text, what footing / mood is the relationship on today etc try to remember what it felt like to be calm, centred, valued and mutually respected by others (as per your experience in Egypt) and have that as your expectation and baseline every day. If they can’t behave like that - step back to an appropriate emotional distance where you feel solid and safe.

She doesn’t want to be rescued and she doesn’t see this as an abusive relationship currently.

Dear Chopin,

sadly this response and vitriol sent at you for Christmas was just how my brother treated my poor parents. He would be utterly surface charming to get what he wanted when he wanted then turn straight round and absolutely savaged you the next. I used to urge my parents to stop answering the long night phone calls, the endless messages for ‘stuff’, the entitled demands to bail him out of his poor choices with yet more money and gifts……he made their last years an absolute misery with his demanding and controlling behaviour. He would send endless messages and phone calls to wheedle what he wanted. When I had tried and tried to call to tell him mum was dying I could not get hold of him. I got mauled for daring to leave him a phone message that was not true - he was not concerned about mum he was concerned about having access to her savings as he knew my parents had recently removed him legally as an executor of their wills.

You cannot win against such mindsets and nothing anyone did was ever enough, appreciated, valued or made a difference. In all honesty it’s time to stop trying as it’s going to break you just as it did my loving parents.

Go low contact, send no gifts of financial value stick to a token £20 max, stop sharing your significant life- my brother never cared or wanted to know and would only contact me when he wanted money or expensive things paid for by me- by not giving him ammunition he could not then throw it back at me as I had seen him do time and time again at my parents. By all means leave the door of communication open BUT stop being the one who does all the running. It’s exhausting and futile to do.

Think as a lawyer and how you would advise a client in a similar situation to protect themselves and their own interests from family members behaving as they are. I appreciate that can so much harder to implement when it’s your own flesh and blood that you love than advise a client.

May the peace and joy of Christmas surround you as you share it with family and friends who truly love and value you for being you. Look after and be kind to yourself. You have done nothing wrong and really have gone more than the extra mile to try to have a healthy relationship. I would not wish dealing with grief and an entitled abusive manipulative relative on anyone. Some of us have no choice but to decide how to respond and deal with them though. I am so sorry you are one of them.