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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

1000 replies

gianfrancogorgonzola · 07/11/2022 12:34

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
REignbow · 14/12/2022 02:20

Stick to beat you with l should of said,.

ChopinandChampagne · 14/12/2022 06:31

Thank you so much for your replies.

I have decided to go to Ireland.

DD1 called me back yesterday, shortly after I tried to call her. She looked terrible, pale and exhausted, face etched with worry, just completely worn out. The persona she presented was not at all the same as that suggested by the somewhat terse message I received in the WhatsApp conversation. I have little doubt that she was writing what she was told to write. Equally, whoever said that their attitude would change, was right. By showing my willingness to walk away, the pendulum swings my way, in this awful 'push me - pull you' game, and LB is now apparently saying what progress we have made and welcomes my visit, although not for my benefit, I am sure!

DD1 said she feels that she is 'malaise(y)'/'coming down with something'. They now have no water at all and haven't had any for several days, due to a frozen pipe, which they think is somewhere outside. The concern is that it will burst and then there will be no water for the foreseeable future. LB had run down the boiler to fix it, so there is no water there and, as the range cooker is linked to the boiler, that is not working either. They have been boiling bottled water for hot drinks, but DD doesn't have water to cook rice or pasta. They haven't been able to have a shower for weeks, as LB is trying to replace it or something, but there is no hot water for a bath or a shower, in any event, because of the broken boiler. They have been relying on three electric radiators to heat the whole house. DD1 looked at her wits' end.

She is not the selfish and entitled person she once was - and I accept that she probably used to be like that - her concern is for her DC and LB, not herself. She does not seek luxury goods, just the basics in life, such as heating and hot water, or even any water. In her Christmas 'list', she forgot to even include anything for herself. Three children aged 4 and under, living in harsh conditions, plus the loss of her Dad, have really ground her down and I feel that her spirit is being crushed. Originally, the new life in Ireland was all an adventure, but I think that now the reality of the situation is beginning to strike, and she is beginning to realise how difficult it can be.

I feel so angry with LB for not being prepared to spend money on getting the boiler properly fixed by a professional, and exposing them all to this misery. It also worries me that he is dealing with gas, electricity and asbestos, without any experience or qualifications. But yet, she still clings to him and continues to believe in him. She looked really pathetic, alone and unsupported, and clearly desperate for me to go. And I feel that I do need to go, even if only for DD and the DGC to come and use my bathroom and have a hot shower. I can't abandon them, I just can't.

Anyway, she asked a few questions, which I could tell she had been primed to ask, as you could sense her relief when she had got them out of the way. These were about money and I said the issue obviously went back to the original house, a long time ago now, but the concerns regarding trust related mainly to not advising us of the birth of DGD1. She seemed to accept that and said she thought that things were 'forgiven and forgotten', which is the first time she has alluded to 'forgiveness'. And yes, she does still want the cow!

She was also anxious for me to raise any issues and to be reassured that I trusted her and LB, so of course I said 'yes' - as I don't think there was any other answer I could give, to be honest - as FerretinaFrock said, there would be no coming back from any other reply. And actually I do trust her, within the confines of LB's control. At least I have now laid the ground for me to be able to say things in the future, such as 'I am concerned you don't have your own bank account', when the opportunity arises.

REignbow, you are right, my emotions are leading me here, but she is my DD, so they always will, I'm afraid, and there are the DGC to consider. I may be one of the very few outside influences in their lives. Whatever DD and LB have done, they are innocent in all this.

Glindara and others, I get that the flight may be delayed or cancelled and DD1 knows this is a risk. FeministLeftFoot and Oonek - yes, the journey will be also be difficult emotionally, but it's only for a few days, I am staying in a good hotel, and will then return to my nice warm house. I am in a reasonably good place emotionally, much better than I was. Yes, I get upset, but I bounce back more quickly. My hotel is in the centre of Carrick, and my room has a view of the river, so it should be pleasant and I won't be isolated. I will take books/Audible with me to pass the time. We are all having a Christmas meal at the hotel restaurant on Tuesday, so at least DD1 and the DGC will have a good meal which DD doesn't have to prepare.

Luckynumbereight and tribpot - don't worry, I have a late Christmas present to myself already arranged, which involves spending the whole of February in Australia/NZ! 🤣

whatwouldAnnaDelveydo - I want to thank you again for your contributions to this thread, which weigh greatly with me, because you have been that person in that situation where DD is now. What you have said really resonates with me as to DD1's inability to act or think differently at present, and her need for love and support.

I do feel that I owe all of you an apology and that I am wasting everybody's time, by posting updates, receiving detailed and constructive advice, and then not taking it. It must be frustrating to keep advising me to do one thing and then I do another. I wouldn't blame you if you just deleted this thread. In my defence, I can only say that I didn't start the thread, although I am very grateful to gianfrancogorgonzola for having done so. I feel that I have become a serial 'time waster', and I am conscious that there are other needy people on MN who are probably more deserving of your unfailing kindness, wisdom, and tremendous support.

Billybagpuss · 14/12/2022 06:53

Oh Chopin you are not in any way a time waster and anyone who doesn’t want to engage with the thread doesn’t have to. I also think any advice that is given on here has to be processed by you in a measured way and that will take time so no one is going to judge you for not saying ‘yep that’s what I’ll do’ and do it. Your threads have never been about that.

I must say I have been overwhelmed by the shear volume of advice over the last couple of days so goodness knows what you are feeling and between here, hopefully helping you make sense of things in your head, and the new information from Ireland coming thick and fast your head must be in a constant spin.

I have been concerned by your early morning posts so fear you are not sleeping well and would love to be able to offer you some advice that will help calm you to solve this.

I did wonder about maybe suggesting dd brings the dgc to stay with you while the boiler is fixed so they can be warm but I very much doubt that would be allowed.

slippingdowntheabyss · 14/12/2022 06:55

ChopinandChampagne . Protect your heart and live your life.
But watch out along the way for those who don't deserve your love and care about your health and well-being.

You know your truth.
Happy Christmas where ever you are.

Selfridgessanta · 14/12/2022 07:04

@ChopinandChampagne i don’t think anyone will think they are wasting their time listening to you. It is easier for anyone on this thread to stand back objectively and observe what is going on and obviously I think we all recognise that you want to do the best for your DGC and your DD. However, that said, you describe the situation as a ‘push me pull you’ game. The rest of us who either have been your DD or as in my family case, dealing with a narcissistic personality like LB see this for what it is. You pushed back and he panicked because you are his retirement fund/golden goose and he needed to draw you back in. It is classic behaviour when dealing with someone like this. LB also needs you to be his packhorse/courier (and this has to stop btw) or there will be no presents as well as no water. It may be (and I hope) that he has overplayed his hand with your DD in their living conditions and her mother’s instinct to protect her children will kick in and the scales will fall from her eyes. I really hope so. I’d definitely be showing the DGC and DD1 the hot water/food delights of the hotel, it may do the trick.

Or it is an awful ploy by him to get you to pay for the boiler.

I doubt anyone on this thread doubts your motives but you must start to objectively evaluate LB’s moves when you are effectively drawn back in. There will be a reason behind it. Keep your eyes open and I wish you all the luck in your trip. Please keep posting if you need to. No judgment here.

SirMingeALot · 14/12/2022 07:12

So at least that's spelled out that LB still views you as a cash cow and one way to take back some control is to look like you're cutting off access. That is useful information at least.

What I would say is don't assume the Christmas meal is going to happen. If you're going, emotionally prepare yourself for the possibility that LB will use the threat of a lonely Christmas in a hotel room to try and reassert himself in the power dynamics, get you back where he wants you.

Teaandtoastedbiscuits · 14/12/2022 07:16

Happy Christmas Chopin. You are a brilliant Mum and I completely understand why you are going over. Its definitely not a good idea, but you are looking at your daughter in need of her Mum. Keep your ears and eyes open but also your purse and mouth shut. I realise how hard that will be, when you see her living conditions but will be the best thing to do long term. There will be backlash over this visit but once you are prepared for it that's half the battle. It will cost 4 euros to dispose an old suit case in one of the many recycling centres in Ireland so don't be worrying about travelling back with it. Give him a fiver and tell him to keep the change! Safe travels xxx

Suzysuz · 14/12/2022 07:18

Or it is an awful ploy by him to get you to pay for the boiler.
*
*
Yes to above - this was my exact thoughts too..... I am sceptical this is mentioned now, she has obviously been given 'permission' to share the details and I suspect only as you were withdrawing somewhat, I also suspect that on the planned trip you would've been ambushed with this surprise situation and an immediate request for transferred cash to deal with it, and how could you say no with your freezing cold DD1 and DGC in front of you shivering....

Please don't continue to be their cash cow Chopin, okay sort the presents already agreed to, even the cow if you feel strongly but then draw a line, please ❤️ the previous chains show the ongoing pattern, pay per view of the children, no gratitude for even the 10k loan written off.
Take the money and gifts off the table, let DD1 see her and her children's true situation, which they just have to say the word to get help to leave, and have whatever may be a genuine real relationship not based on material goods or worth. I suspect the fear is withdrawal may mean zero relationship and I fear that also may be the case.

Bettyfromlondon · 14/12/2022 07:46

I agree that you are going to be emotionally pressured to pay for the work to make the house habitable. It sounds Dickensian. But if I remember correctly, LB has plenty of money stashed away! He is just too mean to spend it if he can pressure someone to do it.

Useful to see from another poster that the disposing of the old suitcase comments were a load of tosh. Do what suits you best.

February in Australia and NZ -wow! Go you! May be best to keep shtum about it until you get back from Ireland though!

liarliarshortsonfire · 14/12/2022 07:52

Chopin please remember that LB has a lot of cash sitting in his bank account when he starts asking for a new boiler, or to get the pipes fixed, or cash for this cow they've been talking about.

I say again that your dd needs to hit rock bottom (and her dc) before she'll make any decisions to leave LB. The more you try and fix it for her, the less likely she is to leave him. Take what was agreed for the dc and leave it at that. You are not a private bank account for LB to kiss when he wants

SirMingeALot · 14/12/2022 08:01

I say again that your dd needs to hit rock bottom (and her dc) before she'll make any decisions to leave LB.

Yes. She won't do that with your money still available to her and LB.

triballeader · 14/12/2022 09:02

Dear Chopin, my heart goes out to you for are stuck between a cleft and a hard place not of your making or choosing.

By all means offer some emotional support by going. Signpost your daughter to local support and help but please be extremely wise and wary of paying for anything. ANYTHING. Sadly your DD really needs to see the reality of the situation she and her children are in for herself and she cannot do that if you continue to fund it in anyway. LB, by all accounts, has more than enough funds for them all to be comfortable but as an entitled avaricious miser the only one who truly matters to him is him.

In all honesty I cannot imagine those attached to their new church not offering some support and help to a family with very young children waiting for a boiler to be repaired in the winter. Heck- I have even gone in on a day off and opened up the church so a family in a similar situation could come in have a hot meal and wash their youngster with hot water. I can imagine how much face he would loose locally if it was to be known he refuses rather than cannot pay for the essentials to look after his wife and kids!

The recommendation to be wary and wise comes from experience. In 2017 my awful brother browbeat me over the recent death of our parents and how he had to have all of his inheritance now. He then claimed his boiler had broken and died. He even made me go to his then filthy cold home to see said very dead boiler. The house was cold damp dirty and freezing. I was more concerned for the well being of his partner and assorted animals who were shivering and becomming ill than the money. I stupidly made over £6k cash to cover the cost of upgrading and replacing the boiler. That was the money I had saved for a newer car so it was not an insignificantgift. Three months on the money had been spent by brother on his grandiose lifestyle and the house remained cold damp with the addition of the pipes having frozen and split with water damage as a result. I refuse to pay for anything else after as I knew, just plain knew, he had to hit rock bottom before he might consider changing his lifestyle choices let alone might think about others.

As the daughter of loving parents who then found the hidden cheque books and finanaces of just how much money my said brother had coerced out of my elderly parents. Lets just say I am still angry about how they were treated as pure cash cows and the many tens of thousands he blagged off them that could have made their retirement more enjoyable and warm. I suspect your other daughters might be viewing your current situation in a similar way.

SquishyGloopyBum · 14/12/2022 09:06

If you wanted to do anything, open an account for her as a running away fund. Don't tell her about it, but have it available should the time come when she realises she needs to leave.

BorsetshireBanality · 14/12/2022 09:09

Remember, in their eyes you are the “cash cow”!

Want to annoy LB - invite DD1 and the DGC over and let them have a hot shower at the hotel!

tribpot · 14/12/2022 09:29

I think we all understand why you feel you have to go, Chopin. But please do keep in mind that you are being manipulated. This is no doubt why you got a video call (on a phone contract I bet you're still paying for?) so you could see their piteous plight - which is self-inflicted. They have enough money to stay in that hotel and get warm and clean themselves. They could go to the nearest Council gym - or as @triballeader says, the church would help them.

This is the lifestyle they want. And unlikely basically every other subsistence farmer in the world, they have the resources to change this any time they want to.

You are trying to put a brave face on the visit and downplay the difficulty of getting the stuff over there, dealing with the long (albeit thankfully warm) nights alone and walking on eggshells around LB. Please don't feel you can't come back to this thread afterwards - you will get sympathy and support.

But please, please do stress to them that you're not going to be used as a black market courier again, so they can evade customs duty. Again, they chose to move to Ireland. This is one of the consequences of the decisions they made.

billy1966 · 14/12/2022 09:45

OP, of course you have to do what you feel is best.

However it really is crystal clear to us that he is utterly focused on what monies can be extracted from you.

You could take back control by seeing them only in the hotel.

You have no need to visit the house.

I agree with others unfortunately it reads as if you are being triangulated with your daughter by LB and being encouraged to see the living conditions is just more of that.

Don't forget your other two daughters.

I think you need to realise that they could harbour real disappointment towards you as well as your DD1, for all this drama that has been brought to the family and continues to go on.

By going to their home you are being controlled by LB.

Far better to see them in the hotel, on your territory.

He WILL want you to see the house so that as much can be extracted from you as is possible.

He wants it fixed but not at his cost.

By paying for things you allow his abuse to continue unfortunately.

All this does is put a plaster on the wound that is their relationship and ultimately in my view, allows it to limp on.

This may be how you will live out your days, which is awful to consider.

Do not underestimate the additional grieve this will also visit on your other daughters.

Do not ever expect their relationship as sisters to recover as they witness this triangulation dance between the 3 of you limp on into the years.

They will likely harbour enormous resentment for the blight she brought to both their parents lattter years.

Please continue to post, all these differing views are only wishing you well.

planesandtrains · 14/12/2022 09:47

This is so sad and difficult to read. I have a sister like this and it's exactly what she'd do. She knows exactly what to say to our dad to open his purse strings. There's always a reason why this time is different/essential and he'd be a terrible father if he didn't help. What father can leave their (adult) child hungry/cold/stranded.

You are being manipulated and indeed I bet the idea of paying for a new boiler is becoming more and more palatable the more you reflect on the conversation with DD1 ...

I understand why you feel you want to go but it's all part of the same pattern to reel you in and open your wallet. As pp have said why do you think she was 'allowed' to tell you this?

I hope one day you can put yourself and your other daughters first.

And by the way, if the house is as bad as they say but they are asking you to pay for Cambridge Baby clothes and not Sainsbury's ones, their priorities are somewhat skewed, even with your money.

planesandtrains · 14/12/2022 09:50

billy1966 · 14/12/2022 09:45

OP, of course you have to do what you feel is best.

However it really is crystal clear to us that he is utterly focused on what monies can be extracted from you.

You could take back control by seeing them only in the hotel.

You have no need to visit the house.

I agree with others unfortunately it reads as if you are being triangulated with your daughter by LB and being encouraged to see the living conditions is just more of that.

Don't forget your other two daughters.

I think you need to realise that they could harbour real disappointment towards you as well as your DD1, for all this drama that has been brought to the family and continues to go on.

By going to their home you are being controlled by LB.

Far better to see them in the hotel, on your territory.

He WILL want you to see the house so that as much can be extracted from you as is possible.

He wants it fixed but not at his cost.

By paying for things you allow his abuse to continue unfortunately.

All this does is put a plaster on the wound that is their relationship and ultimately in my view, allows it to limp on.

This may be how you will live out your days, which is awful to consider.

Do not underestimate the additional grieve this will also visit on your other daughters.

Do not ever expect their relationship as sisters to recover as they witness this triangulation dance between the 3 of you limp on into the years.

They will likely harbour enormous resentment for the blight she brought to both their parents lattter years.

Please continue to post, all these differing views are only wishing you well.

And this post is very good advice too.

My family have poured far more cash into my sister because I am 'functioning' whereas she is pay per view. Actually this doesn't bother me as there is a big age gap so we've not been in the same life stages. If I was a different kind of person or we were closer in age it would have done.

You are clearly a wonderful mother. And unfortunately they are easy to exploit and manipulate.

RandomMess · 14/12/2022 09:56

I honestly thinking you shouldn't go mainly to do with the weather and risk of getting stuck there knowing that LB will not accommodate you and leave you alone stuck on the hotel.

FerretInAFrock · 14/12/2022 10:14

I don’t think you are a serial time waster, you are in a very difficult position, and you are being played by a master emotional manipulator. You are coming from a position of strong love for your DD1 and DGCs, and he is coming from a position to extract the maximum amount of cash as quick as possible, with not even a thank you, just an entitled expectation.

Push back a little, stay in your warm hotel, tell them you can’t courier over their shopping any more. You’ve told them you are cutting back on gifts so stick to it.

Some of the boiler not working is him turning it off in the first place. Surely you would use bottled water to boil pasta or potatoes. Why wouldn’t their neighbours let them fill up water bottles or buckets at their house? Isn’t there a water supply for the stock?

Remember the playhouse money just diverted to his bank account and the DGDs just playing in a ratty old shed (this boils my piss!) when they wheedle for more money.

SirVixofVixHall · 14/12/2022 10:33

liarliarshortsonfire · 14/12/2022 07:52

Chopin please remember that LB has a lot of cash sitting in his bank account when he starts asking for a new boiler, or to get the pipes fixed, or cash for this cow they've been talking about.

I say again that your dd needs to hit rock bottom (and her dc) before she'll make any decisions to leave LB. The more you try and fix it for her, the less likely she is to leave him. Take what was agreed for the dc and leave it at that. You are not a private bank account for LB to kiss when he wants

I agree with this.
If you keep helping to shore the situation up then your dd will never leave. If she truly prioritises her children over LB then she will leave when the situation gets too tough for the children, and she can see that he isn’t the big man she thought he was, when he doesn’t fix or pay for anything and leaves them all without water. Please do not pay to fix the bloody boiler !

SecretDoor · 14/12/2022 10:38

Agree with previous poster you gave them £850 for a non-existent playhouse - can’t they I use this to get a plumber in?

XVII · 14/12/2022 10:53

Chopin,
you do realise you are totally enabling their behaviour?
I suspect you’ll come back several thousand lighter as all this woe is me is designed to ensure your compliance. They have the money to do the works but you’ll end up paying.

ChopinandChampagne · 14/12/2022 11:03

Thank you everyone and I am so grateful for your replies and continued support.

I don't think the intention is to try to get me to pay for the boiler and I wouldn't agree to do so anyway. I'm not that gullible! They now have plenty of money to put in a new boiler, as some of you have pointed out, as well as booking into a hotel themselves. It's just that LB has control of the purse strings and the bank account and he won't pay for anything which he feels he can do himself, and DD1 is too weak to stand up to him and insist upon it, which I am sure most of us would do in similar circumstances

Selfridgessanta - I agree that LB panicked and this has made me feel more 'powerful', in a way - I am not sure that is the right word, but you know what I mean. I am not going to be a 'pack horse' again. As it is, I am going to have to buy another suitcase and pay £35 to take it (the existing one is already full of the things which they have had delivered, without any of my gifts for the DGC or any clothes etc for me to use whilst I'm there), plus a further £35 if I bring it back. I may just see if the local charity shop has a suitcase to buy. But, in any event, it would be cheaper for them to have paid the duty and saved me a lot of bother. In fact, children's clothes are exempt, but apparently it has proved a problem in the past, when LB's DP have sent things. Toys are not exempt.

SirMingeALot - I think the Christmas meal will happen, but we will see, failing which I will dine well in either the hotel or one of the local restaurants.

Teaandtoastedbiscuits - I like the idea of giving LB a fiver and telling him to keep the change!

triballeader - I am so sorry about your awful experience with your brother. How dreadful to treat you like this when you were so vulnerable. Flowers

BorsetshireBanality - I can assure you that DD1 is already planning to come to the hotel. In fact, I am thinking that, whereas I am very sorry for their current plight, if I can meet them at the hotel and avoid their freezing, mould infested house, that would be a positive!

billy1966 - I don't discuss DD1 with either DD2 or DD3 unless they ask, for exactly the reasons you have given. They know I am going to Ireland, so will send their love in a fairly detached way. In the early days of the estrangement, when I was a wreck, I leant on DD2 far too much, but now I keep it separate. I assure you that they are not being treated less favourably. In fact, I have recently bought DD2 a house (she paid a third from her inheritance), so I know she has a home for life. DD3 lives in my flat in London. The fact that they are no longer living with me makes it much easier for me to keep things separate.

I am just going to go with a positive attitude and spend some time with my DD1 and DGC. LB is being nice to me at present, or at least as nice as he can be, but it is clear how much of an effort he finds it. Hopefully, he will just come for the meal and stay on the smallholding, sorting out the water and heating problems. Of course, I will be very disappointed if he doesn't come for the meal! 🤣

SirMingeALot · 14/12/2022 11:04

Don't forget your other two daughters.
I think you need to realise that they could harbour real disappointment towards you as well as your DD1, for all this drama that has been brought to the family and continues to go on.

I agree very much with this. Wasn't sure whether to bring it up myself, but now @billy1966 has made that excellent post I think I will share my experience here.

When this happened to someone I know, like you there was a relative who facilitated the behaviour because of her own worry. She allowed herself to be exploited and to prevent rock bottom from being reached. This has caused not only disappointment in the enabling person from other loved ones, but actual resentment at the choices they've made. Because of having made things worse, but also having made herself more unhappy and needing support. In our case, the resources being poured in were primarily emotional and practical rather than financial, as there wasn't much money, but in some ways that's worse. Cash is cash, but there is only one of you Chopin. How hard has it been for DD2 and DD3 seeing you treated like this, actively enable it and to weather the changes it's inevitably going to have made to you as a person?

In a family group, if you make a choice to give so much leeway to one person, sooner or later it's going to come at the expense of someone else, even if only indirectly. Those people are going to have opinions about it.

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