Where is ChopinandChampagne? LB update?

[gianfrancogorgonzola]

Really hope you see this C&C, I was following your other threads (name change a lot) and wanted to check in to see how you are.

🙏🏼

This is a trap.

They want your words in black and white - to twist and whip you with for ever more.

Don’t give it to them.

Please don’t walk into this bear pit.

They will treat you with distain and worse if you go.

It would be like self harm.

Agreed, and with the weather you have a good excuse. If they live very rurally, it's going to be a schlep from any of the Irish airports, on roads that aren't the best even when there's no Arctic spell. Maybe not the safest. And all to have a miserable time? Absolutely not!

I might be tempted to pay for them items to be couriered just to put the issue to bed, but that would be the very last of it.

My latest response - 'And this is why conversations by WhatsApp are almost always a mistake!!!!!
I have tried to call, and will try again tomorrow (I am going to a concert tonight). Xxx'

Oh Chopin, your message was lovely and so well-judged.

Her reply, I'm afraid, says everything you need to know about their priorities. I'm so sorry.

You really don't need to justify anything. She isn't engaging.

Remember the words of Roman Keating…

“…you say it best when you say nothing at all”

You have responded again with such kindness, and yet again money is at the heart of that response.

Such an utter and complete disregard for the difficulties of a lone woman travelling with a huge amount of luggage, truly extraordinary.

I really hope you choose YOU.

Your daughter is so consistent in her behaviour.

Your 2018 opening post is poignant in that regard.

Really wishing you strength @ChopinanChampagne

If you do make a call tomorrow, please feel you can end it when you need to. Don't keep going and going like last time. I noticed from the 2018 thread that very long phone calls are also a feature of this relationship (DD1 indulged in long calls with everyone except DD2) and not helpful.

If she doesn't answer tomorrow, please stop. This is playing directly into their hands.

I've got no words. Just sending love to you Chopin. Stay strong.

Your message was measured and fair. Given all you've said it's interesting the reference to money is the only thing she has latched onto. In my opinion it speaks volumes. As others have said, I suspect LB has either sent or dictated this response. You're not going to win whatever you say.

As I said in my previous post whilst your daughter is undoubtedly in an abusive r

Relationship, you're not her whipping post.

Much wise advice upthread, Chopin 👆

So it's fine for you to struggle over to Ireland with multiple heavy suitcases, alone, possibly in terrible weather, possibly when there are train/Border Force strikes. It’s fine for you to be a packhorse with the burden of all the many purchases (which you've had to receive, keep, pack up and worry over). It’s fine for you to navigate the unimaginable awkwardness of dealing with LB and DD, walking on eggshells to a fantastical degree, then having to spend the evenings on your own in a hotel far from home. All of that is absolutely fine.

But these young, fit, financially very secure people are whingeing because they might have to dispose of an old suitcase.

I'm constantly in disbelief at the utter lack of awareness and the sheer narcissism.

As a PP said, her reply is a trap. It's exactly what my abusive XH used to do: "please explain, it, I want to understand..." And then I would try and try and justify myself and he would pretend not to understand, while just storing everything I said, so it could be used against me in the future.

I'd bet money that's exactly the same case with DD. Don't explain, don't justify, @ChopinanChampagne . The information is all there in your message. Tell her to reread the message if she has any doubt.

@ChopinandChampagneI'm sorry that you received such an unkind response from your DD, though sadly it was utterly predictable. She asks why you are "so mistrusting" of them? Given the fact that she cut off contact with you, didn't tell you she got married, and hid the existence of the eldest grandchild from you for over a year, she shouldn't be surprised that some trust is lacking in the relationship. Though of course, for your DD and LB everything boils down to money as always.

Your message to her was measured and straightforward, but it does seem as though you are still trying to offer justifications and explanations. I understand the impulse. I have certainly been in situations with family members where I was convinced that if I just explained things the right way, chose the right words, phrased everything perfectly, that the other person would see what I meant and the relationship would improve. But unfortunately, that happens only if both parties are entering a discussion in good faith, with the desire to understand each other and move forward. In this case, your DD has no interest in meeting you halfway.

In your shoes, I wouldn't rise to the bait in her last message. Easier said than done, I know. But just as she ignored most of your message, it's fine for you to do the same. Don't bother defending yourself or attempting to explain your perspective. It will be taken the wrong way no matter how you phrase it. Alas, they have painted you as the villain of their little melodrama, and nothing you do or say will change that until your DD (hopefully) has a change of heart someday.

Bloody hell Chopin, it was really painful to read your beautiful, open hearted and vulnerable message and how reasonable and loving you were and then that nasty short message back (which was also so fucking condescending I felt rage for you - ‘please be as truthful as you can do I can understand’ is SO patronising). Sounds like LB but your daughter is, again facilitating this.

I just think how much more pain, rejection and humiliation are you supposed to take? You’ve tried so hard and have absorbed so much pain for your daughter. I just think that you have a right to peace and happiness you know? I know it’s hard to let it go but I don’t see you have much of a choice, because they are both sucking you dry in so many ways.

As for the trip to Ireland - they know how hard it will be for you practically and emotionally. He knows for sure. They could ease that but choose not to - because they do not care about your well-being. I’m sorry but they don’t. They feel entitled to your pain, your toil, your money and all they can get from you - without fuss or any protestation. For her it’s probably about feeling entitled because you’re her mum and also because you come a vastly distant second to LB. For LB it’s to humiliate you. Of course they could sort out rubbish at their end - leaving you to bring them their things and struggle to do so and then LITERALLY take the rubbish with you is symbolic of what he thinks of you and it’s very deliberate and cruel. Please please don’t go along with this.

Don’t go.

Wow it's all about the money isn't it. You write War & Peace and she responds with that - or rather LB does.

I wouldn't mention the money again, just reiterate that you'd love to see them all before Xmas but will leave it up to her as you don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable.

I think once you send this, they will come back with something lovely, invite you over, dangle dgc in front of you. You know why? Because LB is seeing his money pit going down the toilet, so has to reel you back in

I think once you send this, they will come back with something lovely, invite you over, dangle dgc in front of you. You know why? Because LB is seeing his money pit going down the toilet, so has to reel you back in

Agreed.

Maybe, but then if OP does come, there'll probably be lots of waiting like sharks for her to put a foot wrong/say the wrong thing. Perhaps her and DD are of the type of family that never full on IRL argues. Otherwise, it would only take for DD to have a couple of glasses of wine for things to blow up.

If you are flying in and out of Knock / Ireland West airport - it really is a nightmare at this time of the year due to fog and you could get stuck in Ireland for Xmas with repeatedly canceled flights. One year when we were there for NY my sister drove to the airport 3 days in a row and each time her flight was cancelled due to fog and she was starting a new job….cancellations, delays and diversions to other airports are not uncommon.

My relatives have missed funerals, weddings etc over the years due to fog at Knock.

Hi Chopin,
i think i would have replied
’the thing i find most heartbreaking about your reply as that after all my concerns about doing the best the only thing you bring up is that which matters to you above all else - money.

DD is the one who needs to be on the back foot.

Very sensible.
I am a more volatile person and would not have your control, but I can see it is far better to behave as you are and not to rise to the bait of this latest message. Stay with the choices you have made, but don’t feel that you need to elaborate or explain yourself further. No more money, and no more expensive gifts, or being used to ferry things over.
I think they will up the ante and try more manipulation, but you can retreat into a calmer, more joyful time with your other children.
It really is a game you can never win Chopin.

@ChopinandChampagne I, like many others, am very sorry that her response was so horrid.

DD1 reply - Why do you think there are issues with regards to money? What is the issue you have? I dont understand why you seem so mistrusting of us so please be as truthful as you can so I can understand.

So be truthful. I know that the worry is that she will cut you off again, but that happens when you step a hair's breath outside of their incredibly constrictive parameters anyway.

The truth is you can do nothing right. Money is demanded, rejected and used as a weapon to beat you with. And while she may be LB's mouthpiece, she is causing you significant pain by parroting his words and doesnt seem to care.

It's also very telling that out of that incredibly detailed and heartfelt message where you covered many aspects of your relationship and issues, they have focused on money. Which I barely detected. Her message is a mirror of her/his motivations.

I am so sorry that this is where you are, but I think you need find a way to step back and protect yourself. Although, I wouldn't worry about/berate yourself for not adhering to their rules to try to stay in contact, they will cut you off regardless. They are in total control. So yes, say what you want. What difference will it ultimately make? Screw it.

I have posted on your thread @ChopinanChampagne

May I ask, why are you going to call her? Don’t you understand that they will use whatever you say, as a beat to beat you with, or to manipulate you more.

This is and has always been about money.

Don’t you recall that after your DH’s death they were constantly contacting you and the executors of DH’s estate to see when they were going to get the inheritance?

You have visited them and so far have bought them an aga and some livestock!

I say this kindly, but your emotions are clouding your judgement here.

Do not travel to see them at Christmas. The weather and travel disruption means it will difficult anyway. Also, it will be miserable! They only want you to come in order to deliver all the items they have bought!

Stay home and be with your other DC. You know, the ones that treat you with love and affection.

Compare the above, to spending time with LB and your daughter who are abusive, mean and manipulative. Who only see you as a cash cow.

You have financially given them more than your other children. Think about that.