So fed up and think I give up on men

[Missillusioned78]

I am 44. I would really like a fulfilling equal relationship.

The only man I have met who interests me treats me as someone to ring on the way home when pissed.

I have a full life of work, friends, hobbies and my wonderful children. I am not rich but getting by with my home. We are happy.

I am SO disappointed with men. Don’t know whether to just give up

i should clarify .. he writes long novellas , ranting …… pause and he tells women they are hysterical and emotional whilst he’s intelligent 🤢

There are not long novellas about women being hysterical he likes to just intersperse those when women actually makes valid points that bring down his many castles if illusions

@frozendaisy

You mention nothing about kindness, expanding your horizons by travel, reading. Understanding respect for all people whom are decent. Acceptance with yourself, finding beauty and interest in music, the natural world around you, helping neighbours. Your decided solutions are gym and work, and learn social skills to what disguise one's preferred awful personality? All for the self benefits. That's it? Not really groundbreaking stuff eh.

This is complimentary to the point I made. Its fairly obvious all of these things would be beneficial as well. However, time is finite and one must prioritise the biggest wins; the obese man needs to get to the gym before reading literature and visiting the Sistine Chapel.

@SteveHarringtonsChestHair

That doesn’t sound like too much to ask, but apparently we are all being “hysterical” for trying to point this out to certain posters. (FYI using the word hysterical would be an instant swipe left for me - misogyny is not on my list of must-haves.)

The list presented is perfectly reasonable (mediocre even) and, if genuinely held, there would be plenty of men that fulfill such criteria. The issue is that stated preferences, as above, tend to not match up to revealed preferences.

I used the word 'hysterical' to describe one particular argument, from one particular poster who was putting words in my mouth that were far removed from anything I even came close to saying. Making things up because of an emotional reaction is the definition of the word 'hysterical.'

The word 'hysterical' is not inherently misogynistic. Again we conflate criticism of one woman, with hatred of all women. Throwing out the M word every time a woman is in any way criticised doesn't help or support your argument; it makes you seem less credible, not more. Its being used as a dog whistle to signify 'in group' and 'out group' think.

@Sosillysilly

he had written long novellas ranting at women

You keep using this as an insult which is quite hilarious.

I have not 'ranted.' When you make an assertion that you know will be contested, its on you to back that up with reason, logic and data. That's what I have done. I'm sorry that takes a few sentences, perhaps a paragraph or two, but you can't make nuanced arguments in crayon.

I actually think you may have written more words in response to me, than I have to you. And I have also been quite critical of many men too.

No actually that’s not what’s he’d done at all. He’s come on here to lecture women about how He perceives that they aim to high , are deluded , are unrealistic and expect too much when dating

I've provided a well reasoned, logically coherent argument. I've provided reliable data sets and studies to back up my claim. You have provided no evidence whatsoever. You, and another poster, asked for evidence and statistics, but when presented with it have refused to engage with it.

I think we are now up to 3 posts that have been deleted for breaching the forum guidelines as to their tone and language used in response to me. Yet you continue to assert that I am the one that is out of line.

All of this and soooooo much more is why so many of the women on this thread are refusng to engage with him .

'La La La, put your fingers in your ears and preserve the echo chamber.'

The earlier reference to Plato's Allegory of the Cave remains apt.

It must be nice when life is just one long theoretical thought experiment. For those of us actually living our lives it’s a very different experience isn’t it

I am a dating coach as well as a life coach (& I have a few other psychological & teaching qualifications).

If you PM me, maybe I could help you for free if you wish.

The only reason men are statistically more prone to rape is because only men have a penis to rape with . Women cannot commit the act of rape .

Anyway this thread is exactly why I've hidden all my online profiles ! I'll stick with my dogs !

Why are men more statistically prone to assaulting and murdering women?

typo… the question is why are men more statistically prone to assaulting ( in ways other than rape ) and murdering women than vice versa ???

this is particularly important.

Also, worth a read

theoutline.com/post/6061/older-men-younger-women-evolution-or-bullshit

—> dornsife.usc.edu/assets/sites/545/docs/Wendy_Wood_Research_Articles/Evolutionary_Origins_of_Mens_and_Womens_Behavior/Eagly_Wood_1999_the_origins_of_human_sex_differences.pdf

Emancipation of women and closing the gap of gender inequality (including traditional gender roles) is positive for all.

Good article in the outline there.
I had this feeling about OLD, it was a platform that supported men to "naturally," select much younger women and so it created a scarcity mindset in women, ie, they were more likely to accept dates from older men therefore perpetuating the bullshit that serves men but not women.
I opted out.
Single now. Not jumping through hoops trying to find a man.

But women are no better, they all select the same guys, that is the rich looking ones!

Bit of a generalisation?

Really don’t know where all these ideas are coming from.

If you mean women are seeking men (with which to have children) that have a decent and stable income, doesn’t that make sense, seeing as the family is an economic unit and if she is to forfeit a certain amount of time to work (to raise children - maternity leave, often reduced hours on return to work , which is often necessary due to the cost of childcare) you will need a partner in that unit that is capable of compensating for that overall reduced income. Unless of course she earns more and the father takes on the majority of child care so she can return to work full time.

It needs to be a partnership from both sides - criteria such as tall and rich or youthful and attractive aren’t the real-life basis of strong, long-lived relationships which require commitment, communication and compromise, mutual respect and teamwork. There needs to be physical attraction, but really I think most people have varied preferences with room for compromise, unless they really want to narrow their pool and scupper themselves - if you’re only seeing women who want rich men over 6ft, perhaps your own pool is too narrow and you are disregarding others? (Assuming you are a man due to your comment).

@xPeaceX
I’m not convinced it’s that deep personally, it’s good to be mindful OLD doesn’t represent all available men (or women) particularly when the selection seems bleak, and either you can persevere or step away for a bit, but I don’t think it’s a manipulation tool for the benefit of men.

Previous was response to @Luckydip1

@whenithits the average woman is seeking a man who will be a reliable provider for her and the kids and the average man wants a woman who is caring and nurturing. Now that more women work, house prices have increased because working couples can afford bigger mortgages = higher house prices. The problem though is that if couples continue to work they need to either lean on family took look after their kids or pay for child care which puts a huge strain on their relationship and probably not best for the children.

A man, a partner, needs to be more than just a provider. They’re your teammate - as it stands, I’m sure we can agree that women generally take on the bulk of the childcare - so a teammate with an adequate income to compensate for this makes sense. It’s not that women “look for rich men” as in ingrained preference, but the way in which society is structured quite often women are required to find a teammate that can meet these demands (of society) as they themselves will be required to meet them (providing childcare). We’re living in a time now where two incomes are required to keep many families’ heads above water - and that is bad for the children I agree. I’m doubtful house prices have increased because women work.

Women and men are each looking for partners than can fulfil their end of the social demand, perhaps you must look for a career driven woman interested in a nurturing potential stay-at-home dad so that she can continue her ambitions after having children!

OMG sittingcat you really are a pompous pita. Oh and I know exactly what you're going to to say in your oh so seemly affected way but ad hominem arguments are not always fallacies.

Now off you toddle, maybe go and do another degree to add to your collection Mr eternal student. 👍

@whenithits there was a post on MN asking if women would want to marry a rich man, and the majority of the responses were a resounding 'yes'!!!

@Luckydip1

Why is having children in daycare considered "probably not best for them"?

Idk I didn’t see that.

I do wonder how often women are given the option of who wants to go back to work, rather than it just being assumed that she’ll stop working/reduced hours.

Maybe we need to post the same question if men would like a rich woman - I’m sure that’d be yes too? (Unless they find it emasculating in which case that’s a them problem). Who doesn’t want disposable income? There was also a recent MN thread from a woman living abroad I believe she said “living a life of luxury” due to her husbands salary, but she was miserable and scared as he was abusive. Money =/= happiness, a good partnership does, and a stable income (from one partner) also helps to maintain the relationship - as financial hardship is a real thing.

@zonky better for child to be with family than random strangers.

Women or men who feel this way can make plans to stay home with their children . Many men need to start taking on their fair share as parents

Im not sure why you’d be surprised women would prefer a rich man most men would prefer a rich woman too given the choice ( so long as she was also young and beautiful of course)

It’s kinda like saying to people what would you prefer .., less money or more money

i don’t know one person who would say less money please

SittingCat reminds me of certain male friends/acquaintances who are on the autistic spectrum. That problem in itself halts the ability to apply the emotional IQ and the nuanced thinking required to sustain a relationship (or even attract a partner).

In fact, emotional/behavioural problems are one of the main reasons I'd dismiss someone as a potential partner. Alongside with:
Bad teeth
Rough predisposition
Face tattoos
Hand tattoos
Generally too many tattoos
Crap at sex
Wants children
Has small children of his own
Anorexia
Obesity
Is religious
Is introverted
Culturally different
Addiction issues
Has big dogs
Is/was in the army
Is in bad health
Smokes
Can't handle their drink
Fussy eater
Short (we are talking under 5'5)
Too tall
Poor (we can date but I'm not well-off enough to financially carry another adult)
Has been to prison
Has debts
Has bad hygiene habits (body and house)
Is avid gamer/cos-player/science fiction reader and the ilk
Vegan
....

I could go on but by the time I'd get to that rich, buff body with a degree, we'd be a week into the list! I'll allow @SittingCat to mansplain what we womens like and need instead 😁

Don't be giving up

That is sad op, is he calling on his way home to the wife? A detour and you allow it because he's the only one who you find attractive ?

You don't have to answer, but some of the points raised by @SittingCat are really just based on reality. I don't see his/her views as threatening, just realistic.

Is that reality unfair?, probably, but it really is a reality that emerges as you become older, I've found both men and women to be quite deluded in their hopes of attaining everthing they desire.

Many of you find Sitting Cat unkind, I am female and I do not.

My own situation is not ideal, along with many others, my dating days are over, in truth they ended in my late teens after I met my future husband, together a long time, both of us very attractive, the attractiveness kept one another faithful as the competition was knocked out of the park equally by both of us.

We had met our match as such, intellegence wise pretty similar, emotional wise not so compatible, anyway after many many years, by the nature of his job and probably the aging of myself, he began to see younger available divorced women in their late 30's and 40's becoming more open to friendship. He was 20 years older and the pull of this lead him into a lovely egotistical EA.
So yes, devastating to me that he had a lack of vision and intellegence to see he was fucking up a very long term marriage which involved family, respect and care.

Unfortunately, I wasn't the type of person who could see myself caring for a man who had shown lack of care for me so we separated. He did not want this and still to this day wants his old life back, but you cannot turn the clocks back.
The damage is done. That's bad luck for me, and for him and the children and the grandchildren. Fact.

But another fact is that even if I wanted to have another relationship, I know it would be nigh on impossible to find a replacement, it's not defeatist to say this, I am older, I look well for my age but for the level of respect I require and the financial expectation I would need to be at least on a level with my own would be hard to find. And for attractiveness, I don't think I could attract someone who would fulfill me enough to take my clothes off again.

Maybe a close platonic relationship with a man could be possible but no, I realise my limitations on all fronts, also your ability to believe in romance as you age can make it all seem quite ridiculous.

Amyway op, I do hope you find someone to share your time and company with if that is what you desire, but I would concentrate on the friendship angle, with some respect, and honesty thrown in, and that may mean lowing the standards in the attractive arena, sounds harsh but the available attractive good guys will be few and far between, in your age group anyway.
The good guys will be too young, or old if their spouse has died and the attractive ones will be either divorced and problematic or married with responsibilities.

Aging isn't pleasant but it's real.

Yes and I’d add to that list

• zero emotional intelligence