November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

@whiteonesugar , I truly feel for you. I'm also in a similar situation and I've learned the hard way over the years, that everything we say can and will be used against us. Every time I've tried to explain my point of view, I ended up just digging myself deeper into their dramas and denials. So I don't explain myself anymore, just quietly withdraw. You don't owe them an explanation.

If you do choose to communicate, consider the grey rock approach. Don't show your vulnerable side. Keep everything neutral and superficial.

Wishing you peace and strength!

Good luck @whiteonesugar

I'm on the verge of going NC too I think.

Difficult childhood with hitting and control from my father mainly. However I was also the golden child and a stand in for my mother in their failing marriage, so as a teenager/young adult we were "close" and he was at times a good source of parental advice and support.
Wrote a long but vague letter age 21 (away from home a few years by now) thanking him for the good and forgiving him for the bad, and put a bit more distance in place.
Had several very happy, stable years where my mental health was excellent and I achieved lots. (I know lots of people will say that I had "buried" it but I genuinely think it was healthy at the time- it's just that obviously circumstances change)

Met my now DH and disclosed difficult childhood to him in a "you need to know this for context but I'm ok now" way. Surprise- massive destabilisation. Mental health plummets to worst ever.
Try a couple of different types of therapy including EMDR. Felt vaguely helpful at the time but nothing improves.
Go VLC with dad. Get married. He's not told.

See him face to face first time in months to say "goodbye" (long distance move- yay!). Inform him of marriage (didn't want other family to have to hide it forever) and explain why he's wasn't invited.
He's very hurt, long frank discussion. Eventually there's an almost-apology and some degree of reconciliation. I was happy at the time with this- better than I expected

I think at this point, if he'd continued to reflect and discuss with me as an ongoing thing there was a genuine chance of reconciliation.
But things get brushed back under the carpet, back to once a month texts about surface level shite.

No longer want to engage with him. Feel like my mental health can't get better while I still intermittently pretend "everything is fine". I'm lying to myself.

Unsure whether to try one more attempt/tell him I'm going NC for my mental health. Or just stop replying.
I know this is not recommended, the reasons I am considering it:

• Feel like we got genuinely very close to reconciliation earlier, there is certainly a degree of self awareness and deep shame. I'm not longer hoping for reconciliation, but just for it to no longer be this unspoken secret that our relationship isn't good.
• I have Asperger's and whilst his behaviour was certainly not acceptable, I am aware that I have experienced it as more traumatic than my siblings and mother have due to this (my psychiatrist agrees) So he is still unhealthy for ME to be around, but he's not an evil monster

Sorry for it being long

My mum (they are divorced) I think has like "narcissist -lite" traits that are more amusing than anything. Ie she will sometimes come out with a phrase straight out of "narcissist parents manual" but immediately backs down when challenged and she has a good heart. It's sometimes self-centred but never malicious.
Is this picked up traits from years of being married to my dad or are there different types and degrees of narcissist?

Hi Artemi
Somewhere online (of course I can't find it) there is an article about how children of narcissistic parents can develop narc-like traits. But its learned behaviour, they aren't actually narcissists. Its possible that fits your mum.
Have you heard of 'enmeshment'? Its where a parent is too close to a child. I wonder if that's why you feel the constant need to break away from your dad? What he demanded from you wasn't healthy for either your development, or for your relationship with him or your mum.

''In healthy parent-child relationships, there is a balance between having a supportive connection and encouraging the child's autonomy. There is also a healthy separation between parents' relationship with each other from their relationship with their children.
With enmeshed relationships, parents rely on their children for emotional support.''
https://www.verywellhealth.com/enmeshment-healing-steps-5223635

Hello all. Thank you for tipping me off to this place @Coconut80. I'm not going to regurgitate the whole story, but I posted in another section about feeling hurt that my parent (mum, mostly) are favouring my brother and nephew to the point of exclusion of me and my children. They have this new hobby mum, brother and nephew do together that is now taking up all weekends. She does nothing with my kids and seems to have no inclination to either. My parents moved away and my brother lives with them with nephew at weekends. Dad had mobility issues and I've been going to see them, but been feeling increasingly unwelcome. My mum has recently started saying he won't be able to come to our house anymore. They live in a house with stairs themselves. They come to my town but only tell me about it afterwards.

I don't want to go through the whole woe is me stuff again. I didn't ring this week, but was pleasantly surprised that my mum did today. But within a matter of minutes it was straight on a downward trajectory. Brother is taking her and nephew away for Easter. She used to do an Easter egg hunt for the kids, but no mention of any of that. And just leaving my dad on his own all weekend.

It is really hard to say this without sounding petty and jealous, but I just feel like she doesn't give a shit about us. It feels like I'm doing all the work trying to get them to be bothered about my children (and me), but she's just rubbing my nose in it. I don't want to drip feed, but if I wrote the whole thing out it would be war and peace. Anyway, I told my mum how I felt and of course I was imagining it. She said she was sorry, then said she won't go anymore. She'll just stay in the house like my dad, waiting to die. I wonder why he feels that way? Can't imagine. I told her I was glad she had a hobby, but that it wasn't favouritism anymore. It's a total manopoly. And I wasn't prepared to keep pushing for a relationship they aren't really bothered about.

It's stirred up a lot of bad feelings about things they did as a kid I've never actually processed. I would have been taken into care if that was discovered now, and it has actually affected me and my relationships quite badly, but I'm determined that the rot stops here.

This is all so jumbled. Not sure what I want to say. The stately homes title rings deafening alarm bells with me though.

@Ladybyrd Welcome. You sound pretty pissed off. Can I ask, what are the ages of the children? (Nephew, and your own children.) Is it just you and your brother? How old is he and how long has he been living with your parents? (Assume he's divorced or separated from nephew's mum?). Do you feel both your parents favour your brother or is it more your mum favours him? Has it always been like this for you?

Sorry for the Spanish inquisition! Lots of stately homes posters also have complicated situations they're dealing with.

@Sicario I think it's more that it's opened up a very raw gateway on the past. I am the eternal font of disappointment. I will never be good enough. I took money out of the till as a teenager.

Nevermind that I was left alone every night, weekend, and holiday from the age of 9 years old. They decided to buy a pub, but childcare was apparently optional in those days. So I spent virtually all my time outside school sitting on my own. I feel like it may have messed me up quite a bit.

But we did visit the occasional stately home on a Sunday...

Until spending all theit time getting pissed with their friends became more appealing.

I feel cheated out of quite a bit of my childhood. Don't even get me started on the social anxiety/agoraphobia/bipolar disorder.

Actually, the lack of relationship with my children isn't so much of an issue, when you stack it all up.

There's an interesting thread currently about whether people get on with their siblings. The not-getting-on theme looks prevalent and familiar.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4770952-to-ask-if-you-and-yoursiblings-get-on?page=4&reply=124929472

@Ladybyrd That sounds really tough. This is a great place to vent and get all those feelings out on the table. The healing process takes a long time and can be a rough and rocky road.

(I don't know why that massive logo thing just posted, I was just trying to include a link to the other thread!)

@Sicario Thank you. You do get the impression that most people have a great relationship with theirs but appearances can be deceptive. We get on on ok when we meet, but there is a weird dynamic where he seems to have taken over as head of the house. It feels like my mum has to ask his permission to do anything. Meanwhile they talk to and about my dad like a child. My brother occasionally pokes fun at me.

Something my mum said the other week made me stop and think. She was talking about my dad's sister and her husband. She was recounting him getting in a huff at my grandparents one day. I asked why and she said they were all teasing her, which they did routinely. But she seemed to think he was the one acting strangely? I've started to think that maybe I'm that aunt.

I don't know - it's hard to explain. I do tend to read too much into things. No doubt I will be a big drama queen for telling my mum how I feel, but I've just reached the stage where listening to it is unbearable.

@Ladybyrd - it sounds like there might have been some manipulation or gaslighting going on as you feel unsure about what's been going on. Your comment "I don't know, it's hard to explain" shows that you have a lot to unpick.

Giving yourself some time and distance from them might be helpful, as would counselling.

Even reading up on the subject of dysfunctional family dynamics would be helpful. Try looking up Dr Ramani on YouTube. She has lots of short videos about difficult family dynamics which can be very insightful.

Thanks @Sicario. I now feel guilty for what I've said, because I feel like I've been unkind. My partner says I was right to say it as what they're doing isn't right. And he's the most placid person you ever met and would never stir the pot - just nothing to be gained by it.

But the moment I walked in last time my mum made a beeline for my brother and they started whispering. But when I told her yesterday this made me uncomfortable, I imagined it of course. Obviously they weren't talking about me. And that does feel like gaslighting. I pointed out that behaving like that would make most people feel uncomfortable.

I understand her making a fuss of my nephew, and I'm glad she has a new hobby she enjoys, but when it's to the complete exclusion of our kids and that's all she ever wants to talk about, it's pretty unbearable. She said she was sorry, but didn't know what to say beyond that.

I now don't know what to do about ringing. I didn't call this week, but she did call, which surprised me. But that was to let me know that Easter is off, or so it felt. I know if I don't call, it will be perceived as me being petty, but I honestly don't know what to say. She says they don't go every week, but I can see there's a match every week now till the end of next month. I think I'll just have to leave the ball in their court and see if they call with a suggested date to see the kids but it feels like I'm flogging a dead horse as it is. DP is only off on Sundays and that's when the games are. I've tried taking the kids on Saturday's, but both times there's been weirdness like the whispering and that just doesn't happen when he's there so I'm going to give it a miss.

Sorry for the essay!

I need help as don't know where to turn.

My parents are in their 80s, my mum is definitely narcissistic and my dad is her enabler. I grew up with my mum's regular mood swings and outbursts, usually followed by a silent treatment. She would literally start an argument out of thin air and provoke me until it was impossible not to react. My dad would say every argument was my problem for reacting to her. If I tried to make it up, I'd be told she will only speak to me if I apologise. Sometimes this was after a character assassination of me. Before I realised she had a problem, I was so desperate for her to talk to me again and accept me, I'd take anything off her. I now realise this was abuse and this wasn't normal behaviour.

I am in my 40s and have tried my best to manage the relationship, and have been LC, so we can have some type of relationship given their age. It is difficult as my mum is hypersensitive and looks for offence in everything. They are living in an inaccessible house in middle of nowhere, and my mum is martyring herself and normalising everything that is going wrong with my dad. There have been red flags for dementia, and apparently 'us young ones are forgetful'.

This morning on the phone she started moaning about something and went flying down my throat when I suggested a solution. She went off the scale completely. I ended up having to put the phone down on her.

I am mentally done.

@Ladybyrd sounds like a lot to unpick. From what you're saying you most definitely had an emotionally neglectful childhood and no doubt some of your physical needs were neglected too since you were left alone. It sounds like a very lonely childhood and you have every right to be angry about that. No need to feel guilt for what you say here at all. Let it out. Sounds like you are having some realisations and at this stage it's good to really feel and experience your anger, whilst having some distance and some therapy ideally.
Your mother sounds pretty hostile and when she gets together with your 'golden child' brother, that's amplified. There's absolutely no point hanging out with people who make you feel like shit, it doesn't matter if you are blood relatives. It's so bad for your self esteem and as someone who is recovering from a very hard childhood, you need to do everything you can to build that up, have confidence in your instincts, which feel spot on to me. It would suit your mother for you to not follow them I am sure.
Surround yourself with people who make you feel good and focus on your immediate family. Good luck Op x

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I'm feeling like absolute shite at the moment. I am close to no contact with my Mum apart from minimal exchanges around Mother's Day / birthday. I am plagued with guilt, but I also can quickly reel off 10 good reasons why she doesn't deserve to have me or my children in her life. I know I am right but I keep having to justify it to myself. I don't know why. More than anything I was sick and tired of playing happy families with a woman who doesn't feel like a 'mother', now I am one myself I know what that really means. She did the absolute bare minimum my whole life, and does not know me at all. It's not my fault.
I am considering getting EMDR to try to put this / her behind me, it still feels raw, I am just worried I am going to have years and years of her plaguing my thoughts. I wonder if blocking her completely would help. I am not sure.

I did have a thought that I think my parents are the worst people I have ever met in my life (within their age range)... why did I have to be their bloody child ffs 🤦‍♀️

@winningeasy when I compare my posts to a lot of the situations on here, with violent, aggressive and overtly abusive children, it makes me feel petty. She was asking all about me and the kids when she phoned yesterday. But then when i start to relax it's all about how miserable my dad is and how she's going away for Easter weekend. Can't come here because of his mobility issues but perfectly ok with leaving him on his own at the holidays! I, like you, think I'm about at my limit mentally and just can't deal with it anymore. I just wish I could stop thinking about it because I doubt very much they're spending all their time worrying about me.

I don't really know what to tell you @winningeasy but I think you've just got to do what's right for you and the kids. I wish you all the best with it xx

Abusive parents, not children!!

@Frazzledmummy123
read your post and it hit a few chords with me and didn’t want to read and run. This thread and the people on it are really supportive, you are not on your own .
Hugs to you

I've had a time of it too. Couple of days ago, 5 weeks after narc mum hung up on me I had a poisonous email from flying monkey dad. He's disappointed, not what he would expect, I didn't heed his request etc... i sent a carefully drafted but brief reply. Shortly after I had his reply - she didn't hang up, life's tough at the moment...

I'm drained but done.

Am sorry but not all that surprised to read about the poisonous response from your dad, it was ever thus.

You need to be done with the pair of them now Legomum. No good to you will come with at all being in contact with either parent.

You cannot even begin to reason with people this disordered of thinking so you may as well not bother. Any reply you send, no matter how diplomatically worded, will be seen as an attack and they will respond accordingly. Replying also invites as a response in addition to keeping the door open, this is a door that should now remain closed.

Your dad is his wife’s willing enabler and women like your mother cannot do relationships at all, that is why they need a willing enabler to help them. In a straight fight he will choose her over you because he is a weak bystander of a man and he will continue to throw you under the bus. He has also abjectly failed you as a parent. Drop the rope either one holds out to you here.

My mum was never a mum. I was her mum and to my brother and now we are v.low/ no contact. I don't know if she was just very ill or deliberately nasty and manipulative. She refused physical contact and used to call me 'creepy child' if I tried to hug. I'm going through a really crappy time at the moment and wish I had a mum or close family so much right now. Just want someone to hug me like I hug my kids. Friends are great but not close by.

Am having counselling after ending an unhealthy relationship (other complications too). So up and down. Counsellor says it's grief and linked to traumatic childhood too. I always coped by blocking emotions off and I can't atm- it feels so overwhelming sometimes I've started hurting myself just to distract from it. I keep thinking I'm getting a bit better then I fall to pieces again is this normal? How long will this last :-(

Last time I spoke to my parent (approx 1 month ago) as usual I ended up "giving away" too much information about my life (I always regret it but I often do it...I think it must be a subconscious seeking approval thing)

They offered to "help" with something, which in fairness would be a nice offer without the underlying context of always trying to control my life. (Think along the lines of offering to buy baby items). At the time I said a polite and warm "thanks that's really kind but actually I think we'd really enjoy the excitement of choosing things ourselves"

Fast forward to today (no further contact since then) when they have bombarded me with links to things. I was less polite this time and bluntly said via text "I don't want you to choose"

Oops sorry posted too soon!

My point is that I was blunt/direct but I wasn't trying to be actively rude and I didn't accuse them of anything
And it might be rude to be blunt to a normal caring parent but bearing in mind that I've already been super-polite once, and this person has form for overstepping boundaries

But apparently I am "nasty" and they "weren't even looking anyway"

Have ignored

@Artemi

Your experience rings so many bells with me.The idea that material things equates to love and the need to control, that comes with it. My parents gave a strange relationship with money that they seem to need to both show off their wealth and use it as a form of control.
Hugs to you

@Artemi

and that you putting boundaries up , breaking that control, is seen as “nasty” which they don’t like .
What I am learning is that my parents have little if any emotional intelligence. When they are shamed or feel uncomfortable for overstepping the mark , they feel insulted and it’s my fault .
My parents fit the term “ Well meaning but emotionally neglected themselves” WMBET perfectly , I am wondering if yours are similar ?

These types of parents to my mind are NEVER ever well meaning. They had a choice when it came to you and they chose to dole out similar as to what was done to them by their parents. They never apologise not accept any responsibility for their actions.

This sounds like a typical case of 'the problem is your reaction to their unreasonable behaviour and not their behaviour in the first place'. I could not count the times my mother put me down for setting boundaries, which meant I did not approve her treatment of me. I was nasty, selfish, making up problems, petty and always just seeking an argument. They will never see their flaws.