November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

Yes I defo feel calmer too, she seems to have accepted the increased distance.
She doesn't know me and I'm not sure there's much to know about her. Why bother when the bond just isn't there.

Change of subject... We're moving house soon so I can start over with none of my family knowing my address.
Does anyone know how you can keep the address secret if you work from home, eg companies house? Does anyone use a PO Box?

@winningeasy

An accommodation address maybe?

www.yourvirtualofficelondon.co.uk/

(Years of watching TV - I'm unsure how practical this is...) 🌹

Thanks @flapjackfairy
I did see her this afternoon and no hint of the mood she was in earlier. She obviously know she was pushing me too far.
I was talking to my husband today about therapy but wouldn't know where to start. I am not ready for NC so have been trying to keep her at arms length since I had my children 2 years ago. Motherhood has made me even sadder about the whole situation. Can therapy possibly help while she's still in my life?

I need to dump here. I have a long list of things between me and mum and I actually think I am going crazy. Pop in and out of this thread but today I need to brain dump I think or im going to lose it.

Probably my fault to be fair but it still feels bad. Of course it's about Mothers Day. We dont normally make a big fuss, I usually call on the day but yesterday I didn't call until mid afternoon. She had said the day previous she hasn't slept properly so I thought I'd leave her in peace. She has form for sleeping all day after she has been awake all night. Anyway, I was late, I knew from the minute she answered the phone she was angry. My brothers hadn't called or visited either. She said that if they didn't call her they could both go and fuck themselves and that if I hadn't have called when I did, she would have told me to go and fuck my self too. The problem is that it is this kind of behaviour that makes none of us want to really go see her. I know she is lonely, and she is down but I still can't envisage any time where I would tell my children to go fuck themselves. I feel so sad and fragile about this and I really need to pull myself together.

And of course I carry the guilt for my brothers too. She is mad with them so I get it, I'm the oldest, that's my job 🙄

@winningeasy - Under GDPR rules, nobody can disclose your address. However, the companies house stuff etc., I used my accountant’s office address as my registered address. This is quite commonly done. And you can use a PO box address or a virtual office address and set up a mail forwarding arrangement.

Moving house was hugely cleansing for me, like being able to draw a line under a long episode. Knowing that NONE of my family of origin know where I live is a blessed relief. No more passive-aggressive (or just plain aggressive) shite coming through the post. Nobody turning up on my doorstep uninvited. It’s great.

@User65412 - I can't advise you on therapy, but what I would say is that it would be good for you to learn about boundaries, and to work on your own emotional detachment from your mother. Her behaviour is not your fault. And yes, once we have our own children we find it even more baffling and upsetting that a parent could behave like that.

@shouldisay - your mother sounds completely toxic. She's lashing out because she finds she is now reaping what she's sown. Her awful behaviour is NOT your fault. Do please take care of yourself and stop blaming yourself for your mother's toxic personality. Perhaps look up Dr Ramani on YouTube and see some of her insights into toxic family dynamics and abusive mothers. The healing process for adult children of toxic parents is a long road, but it's worth it.

This is so lovely. Wish I could be at this place. Its still too painful atm. I've tried doing inner child work. It's tough.

thanks for the advice.

I take it back about my mum. I try so hard to see her in a better light but this morning has proven she's just the same.

I dropped her card and flowers off this morning because frankly it didn't sound like she wanted me and my family over yesterday afternoon. I was upset because of my DS struggling at school. She told me I was giving bad vibes and I was visibly crying and she continued to carry on cleaning. I had also asked if she could pop into DS school to do a reading cafe with him as I couldn't make it (I've been to all things but today I couldn't) not often she's been to his school. She told me she was very busy, turns out she's not and she just didn't want to go. My Dsis rings her whilst I was here asks her to go pick her DD up from nursery as she's sick. Mum drops everything and goes.

Why did I think my mum was getting better. Silly me, I should have known better

@Hotchocolate101 - it's just not worth it. Learning to manage our expectations is one thing. Learning not to expect anything at all is actually a lot more valuable. At least that way we know to ask for and expect nothing at all, yet somehow they still manage to disappoint us.

They never get "better". If anything, they get worse.

Joining here. I worked my socks off and left home at 18 for uni, everything at home fell apart and nowadays my brother no longer speaks to me( nearly 20 years on) because he felt abandoned. V.loe contact with mum. There was role reversal, emotionally and practically I acted as an adult from a young age. I remember my brother(6 and 4) and I cuddling my mum in the hallway as dad walked out telling her it would be ok whilst she curled up in a ball and sobbed.

she had mental health and addiction issues. Drama in relationships. Multiple suicide attempts. Life was chaotic. Recently separated from unhealthy relationship and my kids are similar ages.( can't accept abusive but it could be seen that way) it's triggered an awful lot of feelings which I thought I'd successfully buried and I'm struggling. Am having counselling ATM but not sure how long I'll be able to afford it for. Counsellor believes childhood experience is linked to current situation without me realising.

Mostly having trouble with guilt/ low self worth etc. Never considered my own happiness - had goals and want the best for the kids. Self care is not something I know how to do but hoping counselling will help. Hoping others have been through similar and feel better now.

Interesting segment on Woman's Hour this morning about a woman discovering she had a narcissistic mother. It was the last part of the programme.

That’s very interesting it have just listened to it I can relate , keeping up appearances is more important than your daughter mine even kept up appearances with my dad her behaviour in front of him was different to when I was alone with her she couldn’t hear him realise in case he left her (I wish he had)

Thanks for the tip @Sicario I will be giving that a listen. I love Woman’s Hour.

Mr Monkey is struggling a bit. It's funny isn't it, but it can be the little things that tip you over the edge.

He's organized, together with his lovely cousin, a get together meal on Easter Monday for their fractured family. I'm not going - love his family - but I can't deal with the Hag - his vile mother - and refuse pretty much these days to spend any time with her as it's stressful and anxiety inducing. Feel so much better with my NC decision.

He announces the meal to her. Cue instant whining, no clothes etc etc, NO thanks for arranging, that sounds lovely, how great you've organized this.

It made him really sad. It makes me sad to see him try to fix his family - not The Hag, he realises it's pointless - but to bring people together. He’s fine with my decision BTW.

Lots of screaming, shouting and low level spite recently.

The spite made me really laugh. The Hag makes much of ‘not making a fuss over Mother’s Day’ so MM doesn't. She gets a card, she doesn't want a present, doesn't want a lunch out. So Mr Monkey takes her at her word, the lack of fuss is a huge relief all round.

Hilariously, the evil witch asked was Mummy Monkey at yours on Mother’s Day?

Laughable.

She is SO jealous of my mum who's kind, sane and someone you want to be around. It's laughable. She can’t compute why no one wants to spend any time with such a vile person.

No, Mummy Monkey wasn't at ours on Mother’s Day, Hag, Mummy Monkey was busy being KIND and helping someone who's going into a care home.

We celebrated Mother’s Day the weekend before with my mum with a glorious meal and tons of food.

These narcs are bat shit.

I am creeping in here for a bit of a hand hold and support as I am about to tell my narcissist mother to do one, once and for all.

Years and years of childhood trauma, being hit a lot, laughed at, told I was awful, cheating on my dad, lying about it, calling me evil, throwing a strop on my wedding day etc etc into a few long periods of non contact then being guilted back into a 'relationship' then being told I have fallen short. there is LOADS more but i dont have the energy to go into it all.

Latest is she ignored me (and by default her grandchildren) for 10 months last year, then wrote a letter (4 Pages!!) to tell me she has ignored me on purpose and how hard her life has been and how I was a difficult teenager and I am cold with her blah blah.

I had counselling, wrote back explaining some things and ended saying maybe we are better off not seeing each other.

She's now contacting me every few weeks asking to see my children / meet up / rebuild. no acknowledgement of my letter or the contents. I cannot see her. I freeze.

I am done. I have a message drafted to say so. I just need to grow the balls to send it.

WHY DO I FEEL SO GUILTY.

Hand hold please. I know I'm not a bad person, she just manages to make me feel like the worst.

@whiteonesugar I feel your pain. My "mother" was horrendous and because I was brought up being abused I didn't realise, even when she was nasty to my kids I felt I must have done something wrong. The brainwashing by these people is terrible. She went too far a year and a half ago and I stopped communicating in person or by phone. I wrote carefully considered letters, trying to explain my feelings, paying attention to hers, suggesting she talk to a 3rd party (rather than her family who have all cut me off without even talking to me), suggesting I meet her with a counsellor.

Complete waste of time. Like you, there was no acknowledgement of my feelings. Her letters back have all been about her, she has made no effort to look into her own behaviour, she has played the victim and finally called me a liar and told me to leave her alone. She never took any responsibility at all. These "mothers" don't. She is now apparently dying and wants others to fix the situation without her having to do anything. It's a dreadful situation, but not one of my making.

You could, if you wish, consider telling her that when she gains insight into her behaviour, through therapy or whatever, that then she can write to you in a year or two expressing her understanding, but in the meantime you are protecting yourself so there will be no contact. Hell will freeze over before she gains any insight, but at least you haven't done the "unthinkable" thing of telling your mother to go to hell! To any flying monkeys you can say you explained to her what she needs to do, and you are there if and when she does it. (The fact that she won't do it is her problem, not yours.)

Thank you @Escapingafter50years thats a really good idea. I will think about it.

Sorry you have had similar, its only now I am realising how totally NOT normal it is! I have huge blanks in my memory and know now it's a trauma response. I refuse to put my children in her path.

@whiteonesugar nightmare! I'm really glad you're having counselling. It's so helpful.

Your mum is trying to take back control. She needs you as her victim. She’ll visit this crap on your kids in time, too.

You don't need to respond. You owe her nothing. Sadly, these people don't admit their responsibility for their toxic behaviour. Step away!

Hugs to you

Thanks @MonkeyfromManchester I know I dont need to respond but I feel I should. However, from counselling I know I shouldn't think about 'shoulds'.

I feel I want to tell her straight - I wont be meeting up and I want you to respect that and stop contacting me.

I feel then I will have closure (regardless of whether she listens or not) and it won't be hanging over me anymore.

But I am waiting for DH to be home, he's away tonight. If the shit hits the fan I will need him here.

you will get lots of support from your DH. Toxic families? Nothing worse! Take care.

Whitesugar

No response is a powerful response and I would adopt a policy of radio silence. You do not need to respond anyway because a response from you is her reward as well as keeping the line of communication open, a line that needs to be closed.

What your mother is doing here is a behaviour called hoovering. She wants you back in her dysfunctional world view knowing your place. She will also harm your children in not too dissimilar ways as to how you have been harmed. Narcissistic parents tend to over value or under value the relationship they have with their grandchildren and infant there is no relationship. It is not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking. She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she has not changed since. She will never apologise nor accept any responsibility for her actions.

@AttilaTheMeerkat you could be right, however I think my response previously was too gentle, and a I need a firm ‘stop contacting me’ to feel I’ve made my intentions clear. If she thinks there’s still a chance she won’t leave me alone and I will be stuck in this constant cycle of guilt and anxiety around whether she’s going to contact me or not.

once I’ve told her to get fucked once and for all I’ll feel I’ve said my piece and can happily move on, it’s more for me than her.

@whiteonesugar I think @AttilaTheMeerkat 's advice is always very well worth considering.

In my case my "mother" wrote to me telling me to leave her alone (also calling me a liar), so it was a perfect way for me to then give no response, although that's not what she wanted or expected. She actually thought I wanted her so much that she could insult me and tell me to leave her alone and I would beg for her mercy.

But in your case you haven't been sent a similar blessing unfortunately! I do understand you genuinely feel the need to tell her to really leave you alone, and that this is for yourself, not for her. The one thing to watch is that these people use everything against you, and if you send a letter telling her to fuck off, then you look like the bad person and she can dispatch her flying monkeys who will feel huge sympathy for this poor wronged old lady. So that's why I was suggesting that, in the knowledge she will never go to therapy, you say you'll be there for her, in time, if she takes certain steps to gain insight into her thinking and to understand why you feel as you. Then when any flying monkeys come along, you can dismiss them by telling them you asked her to do one thing, but she hasn't has yet - and then not engaging with them any further. And you can honestly deny any accusations of being abusive to this poor wronged old lady, who, as Attila says, will never change anyway.

My "mother" has had a friend and a neighbour on to me recently, and I have politely but firmly explained that the ball is in her court. I've suggested they ask to see the correspondence - I previously suggested to her she show it to an independent person in a position to help her, but I suspect it was disposed of because it tells the truth that she doesn't want anyone to know!

@Escapingafter50years

Definitely food for thought. The thing is, if she (by some miracle) did accept responsibility I think it would be too little too late.

I’m just done.

@whiteonesugar Easier said than done I know, but perhaps it's time you stopped caring what she (and other people) think. Emotional detachment is key to the recovery process. Working towards that place when you no longer give a shit. It took me years, but I got there eventually.

@Sicario I am in tears reading that. Bloody wonderful that you are a lioness,strong and fierce, that bitch of a mother never broke you.
Love that you look at the picture of you as a wee girl everyday. You have made amazing progress, I flinch and can't look at any childhood pics.
Fabulous approach and way of thinking xc