November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

@Sicario thank you. This year is about a better life - and despite Hag’s best efforts it's pretty good now - so getting out more, seeing friends, holidays, work on the house etc. If the stupid fucking bitch thinks she will go and live with ‘our slave son’ they are welcome to each other. He can deal with the shit. Her eye is on the main prize e.g. Living here. Laughable. Past giving a fuck about MM’s toxic family and their dickery.

Thank you 😊 @MonkeyfromManchester
I know...its almost unbelievable isn't it? I'm getting more and more angry about it tbh which is not helpful.
I'm currently very very very LC with siblings, (send or reply to an occasional text) will not be attending my sisters (2nd) wedding and am still keeping pils at arms length.
It feels very....Nice 😌
No drama. No nastiness.
Mum continues to drive me mad but i feel rather churlish complaining knowng what the hag is like!

Keep your boundaries. Enjoy 2023. I intend to work on mine! Xx

@SometimesYourBestIsJustThat May I ask why you are here if you find the thread so distasteful? I don’t see much on here that goes beyond empathy and a shared lived experience of toxic and abusive families which, in some cases, runs the gamut of sexual, physical, emotional abuse. Please do keep reporting away.

Thank you for your reply @Sicario I'm already cut out the will. That they all kindly let me know already! I was the scapegoat of the family. When I said I'd had enough of the way they all treat me, things went beyond crazy. I moved away eventually and blocked them all.

You're right. I cannot go walking back into it all and death is inevitable. Your reply has helped me so much thanks.

to everyone who is suffering.

I agree with everything @Sicario said x

Meeting up with someone tomorrow who I can talk to about what happened last week.

Also seeing a friend next week who I may talk to about it.

it may help.

@Chevyimpala67 I think anger comes and goes. Sometimes I feel unbelievably enraged by the Hag, other times it's low level crossness. There's no pity for her or sympathy as her shit life is that of her own making and she wants everyone else to be miserable.

I think anger can be a positive and legitimate emotion when not turned on yourself, but directed at the right people. If people treat you like shit, you're right to feel angry, the key is not to turn on yourself. You don't need to vocalise it at those people but use it to keep a distance.

@qwertycookie hugs to you. Xxx

Hi everyone, thank you all so much for the advice I don't know how to thank people individually. I'm hoping to have counselling sorted very soon as I feel I could use it. It's been very helpful reading about people's situations I just feel less alone. I know I should care less but it feels like a huge problem at the minute. Also some people I know from the village have started ignoring me, so that was lovely. I'm going to look at some videos today to start building up my confidence, thanks again for the advice, just having people to talk to have been such a help x

You're right.
I've been beating myself up about how I handled it at the time and tbh dh hasn't been great :(
But...its given me a lot to think about and reflect on.

I became aware that often, when I felt utter RAGE, it was because I was deeply frustrated. Frustrated that the situation was beyond my control. Frustrated by the outrageous toxic behaviour. Frustrated that I couldn't go round and smash someone's face in. And frustrated that I would never be able to "avenge" the damage done to me.

Completely pointless. Like drinking poison. I've lost count of the times I cried tears of fury.

I knew the only answer was going NC and maintaining complete silence from my end. Anything else would have just perpetuated the endless cycle.

It's taken years, but I've worked through it all now and all those negative emotions burnt themselves out eventually. So it's do-able, and worth it.

Please can I seek your wisdom? I posted in this group a couple of years ago about my mother (I then got MN to delete it as I was so worried she'd some how see it and be hurt).

I'm the oldest of four and, since my dad died when I was 14, she's really only been able to provide physical care. We were always fed and clean and not hit or physically hurt but she's been completely unable to offer any emotional support of any kind. Never told us she loved us, never gave compliments or showed any pride in anything we did and nothing was ever good enough. She also moved us in with an abusive alcoholic who eventually drank himself to death (not before he'd financially ruined her). She then took up with someone else who could be very difficult and who was very unpleasant with two of my siblings and she did nothing to protect them. Anytime she's with someone, we don't hear from her. She never calls. Ever. She forgets our birthdays and most recently forgot DS1's 21st and completely ignored him and only spoke to DS2 when we saw her most recently. I'm really hurt and cross for him.

However, and this is where I'm struggling, don't believe that her neglect and failure to protect us was in anyway deliberate or malicious, she's just completely tunnel-visioned for whatever is taking her interest at the time and not capable of behaving in any other way. That doesn't make it any less painful and I've spent the last 30 years feeling like I can't depend on anyone else and that I'm worthless essentially. I'm currently seeing a therapist to address these thoughts and the associated coping strategies.

I can't deal with not getting what I need from her and so want protect myself from that but I feel so guilty at the thought that distancing myself will cause her pain. We've never discussed how I feel or that she's failed us all. As a family we have terrible communication and I know that she'd be very hurt and then defensive and she's made comments that suggest that she's hurt by not hearing from my brother. He's cut himself off but hasn't told her it's because of her past behaviour.

In addition to all of this, she's got herself involved with someone who's quite controlling and is monitoring her phone and I am worried for her and feel like I should be doing something to protect her which is a role that I've held since my dad died.

Thank you if you've read this far! How can I proceed?

Really? Nothing. As painful as it is, let her lead her life and you lead yourself. She’ll never be what you need and deserve. You can’t save her from herself. You can save yourself though. It’s really painful, but that’s just the way it is.

@BeBraveAndBeKind well done for taking the courage to post and sorry you find yourself in this position where you feel so obligated to someone who doesn't appear to add anything to your life. I am in a similar position, a mother who managed the basics fed / clothed (just about!) but no emotional support, encouragement and guidance. Just so entirely self centred. We have had a very low contact relationship for as long as I can remember, she had an affair and moved away and divorced my father (also a horrendous narc - no contact) so it was always distance as the excuse. Since my wedding and having a baby it's just occurred to me we have zero attachment, she knows nothing about me, never tried to get to know me, never cared about anything I achieved. She has zero life experience to be honest, and lives in her own tiny world. It's emotional immaturity pure and simple. Having a child of my own has really bought it home that she was actually pretty horrible to me growing up and that I could never be like that to my child.
Over the last 6 months I haven't made the effort, not been to see her and have put a boundary that she cannot stay here, and have told her to stay in a hotel if she wants to see me/GC, which she did not like and this has created further distance.
I have thought long and hard about telling her why I feel so let down by her but have decided against it. I mean she can always ask, but narcissists do not possess any desire for self enquiry so it's never going to happen.
We're not NC but it's moving that way. I will not be giving her my new address when I move (as she's directly / indirectly given out my address to other members of the family who I am NC with). I am even pregnant again and just haven't told her.
It feels nice to have my own life she knows nothing about and has no part in.
It's hard to come to terms with the fact your childhood was severely lacking. The feeling worthless thing I totally get. I have had very bad mental health, suspected BPD stemming from all the trauma and neglect. I am full of shame for the life I had in my teens and twenties and even in my thirties, it was chaotic and There was a lot of self harm and self sabotaging. That is my parents fault. I keep that front of mind when any sense of guilt creeps in for reducing contact and putting boundaries in place.
I day dream every day about the childhood I could have had and cling onto the very small amount of good there was in it. I keep my best friends close and try to be good to my partners family. I love my babies and my dog, and my husband and all those who support out family day to day. I don't spend time thinking about those who do not. I do a lot of inner child self love work. I am compassion and kind to myself, and accept I am emotionally fragile, and that's ok. I am not perfect but who wants someone who's perfect?
OP, I would focus on loving and supporting your siblings, and make sure you are giving yourself lots of love and care. Definitely seek out some therapy as an investment in you, and be selective about who you go with for that. As for your mum, you could just start by putting some boundaries in place that would make you more comfortable. She is an adult and needs to figure out her own mistakes. From what you said she sounds completely self centred and likely a narcissist. Definitely read up on those and emotional immaturity in general and see if anything resonates. Whilst you do this, you could give yourself some space from her. She makes no effort and I think it's worth questioning why you feel you need to make the effort for both of you, because you simply do not.
Have a read about FOG - fear, obligation and guilt. Hugs x

Thanks both. What you're saying really makes sense and I really need to stop making excuses for her and start putting myself first. I'd be so sad if my children stopped contacting me yet, if I don't contact her we would go months without speaking. I have mentioned in the past that she can call us too but she just said that she'd hear if anything was wrong. To be fair, she is great in a crisis that requires practical help, it's just the rest of the time that she's disappointing.

@winningeasy So much of what you said resonated with me. There's definitely obligation and guilt there. I'm seeing a psychodynamic counsellor and getting some boundaries is definitely on the agenda!

Hi BeBraveandBeKind

re your comment:
"To be fair, she is great in a crisis that requires practical help"

Did you actually ask for such help or did she shoehorn her way in without asking?.

By being or appearing to be as giving and helpful they can feel superior to others.

Narcissists sometimes help others and do favors because it gives them power over those whom they help. If someone helps you, you feel grateful and willing to help them in the future. This is normal and a good thing.
However, one thing you don't want in your life is to feel in debt or otherwise obligated to a narcissist because they will abuse this power dynamic, without exception. They will string you along either by using it as leverage or by demanding more than their initial favour was worth. They will remind you forever about how much they helped you when you were in need, and so on. This induces feelings of guilt in their target, in this case you.

Narcissists can sometimes be helpful and caring. However, more often than not, they only pretend to have these qualities. Moreover, even when they act giving and helping, they are not motivated by empathy because they severely lack it, and as a result, their help is often not very productive.

Narcissists are motivated by feeling superior and expanding their power, and so the only things that matter when helping others are receiving adulation, fame, influence, opportunities, notoriety, and other resources. They don't actually care about others because to them other people are just things to use.

Its probably also hard for you to set boundaries also because your mother here has really not encouraged you to have any.

Your selfish and self centered mother put her need for a love and or sex life ahead of you people as her now adult children and you've all suffered greatly as a result. Deal with any and all FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) here through therapy. Reading the Out of the FOG website may also be of some help to you.

@AttilaTheMeerkat Thank you. She doesn't fit the profile above and only helps if asked. But times when I've needed her there but didn't ask because I thought she'd just want to be there, like when DC1 was born 7 weeks early, she wasn't. She's never asked for or expected anything actually. Regardless, her lack of emotional care and failure to protect us all has left long lasting damage. I'll read up on FOG.

I have followed this thread for a long time and so much of what is said resonates with me. What you are saying here @AttilaTheMeerkat about help sometimes being given but mostly not being helpful is so true. My DM once offered to help when I first bought a house and it needed painting. I said that would be great and reassured her that I would of course do all the high stuff using the ladder so she could do painting at the lower level. Only to be told she couldn't be bending down to do that. So I said that was no problem she could do the strip at chest height and I'd do above and below. To be told she couldn't be on her feet for any length of time. Confused I asked what help she envisaged giving. She replied that she intended to sit and chat to me while I painted! It was a completely unfurnished house with bare floorboards. I used to take my lunch and a flask and pretty much paint all day. If she'd have come my time would have been spent getting her a comfy chair, and cups of tea, and lunch etc. I politely declined.

It's so true though that these offers of help are a big part of the reason it's taken me so long to realise what a one-sided relationship we have. My DM also doesn't contact me if I don't contact her and I spent the first 40 years of my life worrying what she would think and trying to please her while at the same time thinking we had a great relationship. But as I have gradually stopped doing all the work and initiating contact it's become impossible to ignore the total lack of effort, love or support from her side.

Hi. I've just been posting on relationships and someone - well a few lovely people - suggested I post here

I'm currently having to live with my parents post divorce while the house sells. Two months in and I want to scream most days.

I'm not sure she's a narcissist. Someone suggested covert narc but it's just relentless criticism. My weight. Even drinking black coffee.

But if you asked anyone outside they would say what a lovely little old lady she is. So caring. But she's so controlling. Every tiny thing I do is monitored. Remarked upon. I can't even have a bloody period in peace

I just wanted to say hello. I will go and read the whole thread in a bit. I already feel safer having found some lovely people here who've made me feel like it's not just me going mad.

I've reached the end of the line for me I think. She called me crazy. She gaslit me and said I was crazy. Then when I said how hurt I was she called me crazy and hadn't apologised she simply said it again. Maybe you are crazy.

I'm done.

Hello, all
I haven’t posted since my first time, quoted here, from a few weeks ago.
I am coming under pressure from a very close family member to “put it behind us and move on” because this family member doesn’t want a “split in the family”.
It’s far too long and complex a story but the straw that broke my back and made me determined to get a toxic family member out of my life involved some unwarranted verbal abuse as a response to my calling out some bad behaviour on her part. It was a case of denying the behaviour I was pointing out, then dismissing then minimising it, finally turning it on ME (I was the behaviour I was accusing her of!) and the ultimately telling me to fuck off.
This was the final straw after several decades of bad behaviour. Now I feel as if I am being emotionally manipulated to “move on” for the sake of a mutual family member. I have also been told that the verbally abusive person is “very very upset” by my decision not to have her in my life any more.
Yet no acknowledgment of the “fuck off”, no asking me how I am, no apology for the verbal abuse.
Today I feel shaken and numb and exhausted by this. I don’t want to give in to emotional blackmail, I want to hold firm. I want to be free of this person. But I don’t want to lose the mutual family member; I feel that this is an unspoken threat.
I want to go forward with a peaceful life without this very difficult person in it. I’m now looking into some talking therapy support.
Please please can any one of you wise people recognise anything I am saying? If so please can you advise me on the way forward?
I’m good at self care. But I feel exhausted by this. I want to get under the duvet for a few days.
I’d happily welcome any advice. Thank you.

FreeIn23

re your comment:
" Iam coming under pressure from a very close family member to “put it behind us and move on” because this family member doesn’t want a “split in the family”.

Block this person's access to you through all channels.

Ignore this flying monkey, also likely sent in by the toxic person to do their bidding for them. This flying monkey, usually a well meaning and an easily manipulated relative to boot, does not have your interests at heart and has their own agenda. Therefore this person should be ignored.

re your comment:
"It’s far too long and complex a story but the straw that broke my back and made me determined to get a toxic family member out of my life involved some unwarranted verbal abuse as a response to my calling out some bad behaviour on her part. It was a case of denying the behaviour I was pointing out, then dismissing then minimising it, finally turning it on ME (I was the behaviour I was accusing her of!) and the ultimately telling me to fuck off".

You were on the receiving end of DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim, offender) here - a well worn tactic used by toxic and abusive people to avoid accountability for the abuse they inflict on others.

This article may be helpful www.narcissisticabuserehab.com/darvo/

Well.
The invite to my sisters 2nd wedding has arrived. Its a weekday in May (fair enough...its much cheaper).
I have politely declined and wished them well.
I cannot - and will not - play happy families to make her look good. She hasn't actually spoken to me since last September and my 50th birthday went by with not even a card.
No doubt some family members will not be happy (mad, nasty aunt...) but I'm happy and comfortable with my decision.
Shame it took me til I was 50 to get there :(

@FreeIn23 my DH has 2 sisters. He called the younger one out on her horrible behaviour and was also told to FO (charming aren’t they!) My DH then texted and told her not to contact him again. Her husband then minimises it by saying she didn’t mean FO but no apology for upsetting him. They never take accountability or admit to anything. This was my final straw and pushed me into therapy which I can really recommend - she won’t change but I no longer care if she’s in my life as she adds nothing. I also now don’t care if I upset her so I have very gently pushed back and can see when she starts to get uncomfortable 😈

The other sister is the flying monkey- is told lies which she believes and can then be frosty with us which then allows toxicity into our lives. I’d love to have a relationship with her again but it would have to be on the basis that the other sister isn’t discussed and that the relationship is kept totally separate.

Bloody well done @Chevyimpala67 ! Huge round of applause.

@FreeIn23 - sadly, everything @AttilaTheMeerkat said was bang on. It's classic DARVO. Block them all and concentrate on your recovery from all the years of abuse.

Good for you.

Well done on doing it swiftly.

Must be such a relief.