November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

Just walk away and don’t look back. You don’t owe this woman anything. She’s an abuser.

I posted the other day about an upcoming big day for my husband and my mother ignoring it. Well by Thursday evening I knew that she wouldn't come as the ferries were still delayed and she had not asked any of the family to book/accompany her on a flight and deflected, ignored any conversation regarding the event.

Luckily I knew that she wouldn't just walk in at the cermony which some of you suggested might happen as she is extremely concious of appearances and what others think of her, she bitches in private but most people, even those I have confided in re her behavoir, think her charming. Phones were turned off, not that she will phone and doesn't do texts (allegedly).

Anyway to get back to the day we had the most wonderful gathering of family and friends, around 25 people ranging from late teens to 60 plus. Historic ceremony followed reception. All happening in a beautiful historic building with fabulous views of the City. Later half the group decamped to a random pub where we danced till midnight to 80s tunes. The younger ones then went clubbling till the wee hours. Everyone loved the day but the mad thing is I still feel sad, worried and I supposed a little guilty for my Mother who would have loved every minute but though her own choice misssed out.

@IncludesFreeOnlineEdition I could have written a lot of what you described about my DM situation bar minor details. The similarities of stories on SH threads are striking!

I agree with @MonsoonMadness - she is an abuser and you should just remove yourself from this toxic relationship! Otherwise she will destroy you and your health!

I am NC with my DM who is in her 80-ed. The break up happened when I went to care for her I the autumn and was called in the process - a snob, a drunk and being a horrible daughter. I just couldn't take it anymore.

It is not easy being NC but I hope that with the help of therapy that I started I can pull through.

I think that when we go NC and we feel sad / guilty - we are sad for the relationship that could have been and the missed opportunities that simply not possible with toxic people.

I wish you all the best but walking away is the only option here.

TW Sexual abuse.

Hello I hope it’s ok to post here about something that happened in the last 24 hours. I am in my late 50s, with elderly parents, who are still very much alive and with all their faculties. I live several hours from them.
I was sexually abused when I was a young teenager more than 40 years ago by an old family friend who is still in the picture, albeit on the periphery of it.
We bumped into him a couple of years ago whilst out . I stayed away whilst my father had a brief chat with him. After I told my father I didn’t like him and that he abused me when I was younger. He replied that he knew . This was a surprise to me ( that he knew ) I couldn’t even remember telling him previously. I thought it a bit off , that knowing this my father even gave him the time of day , but decided not to pursue this at the time .

Yesterday on the phone amongst the general chitchat my dad announced that this family friend was having a significant birthday and they were invited.
i immediately said you not going are you after what he did to me ? My Dad retorted that they were and it wasn’t up to me to dictate who they were friends with . I was shocked by this and whilst he tried to continue the chitchat I finished the conversation quickly. I wrote him a message a few minutes later that I was very hurt they were considering going and that they chose to be friends with him DK owing what he had done . His remarks had really hurt me.
About 10 minutes later he responded saying they weren’t going now. I responded that was great but I was still very hurt by his remarks a few minutes before . He just responded can we stop now?
I messaged back saying he was minimising and that at the very least he owed me an apology for what he said earlier . He then first accused me of exaggerating and putting words in his mouth and then this morning messaging that he was hurt and insulted ( this was after I had responded that I wasn’t exaggerating and he was gaslighting and that this was proven by the contemporaneous messages after the phone call I had had with my brother who was staying with them. )

The almost throwaway comment “You can’t tell me what to do….” by my father is his modus operandi and most common response when he has been “caught out “ . My husband wonders if it’s almost so automatic he doesn’t realise he is saying it.

My husband had suggested I leave things overnight and maybe he would consider what he had said and the consequences. Instead I got a message telling me that HE was hurt and insulted.

In the past , up until my forties gets had always used “Child” as an insult to me in any arguments particularly If he was losing which really riled me . One day I confronted him about it . He said it was because he knew it annoyed me . I replied I that If he used it again as an insult I would never speak to him again. So now instead of being labelled a child it’s “you can’t tell me what to do..,.” I am aware I can’t, but I can tell him how his actions make me feel and act accordingly.

To say this about his friendship with my abuser hurt me considerably. I think he should be aware of the consequences of his actions.

@frami it is so wonderful that you had a great weekend not disrupted, shadowed or polluted by your DM deliberate toxic behaviours. No doubt she will try to provoke and whinge for you to chase her so she can try to sully your memories.

Don’t let her do that. Don’t chase. Give her minimal detail if she asks and repeat vague one liners - and change the subject and cut communications short. Be an efficient receptionist checking in briefly as an obligation and moving on swiftly with your day.

Acknowledge your hurt and disappointment to yourself by having some self compassion that your DM doesn’t have your happiness at heart and everyone deserves that. Tend to that loss before coming to terms with it and accepting it so that you can manage her better so she can’t hurt, confuse, manipulate or keep you dangling. Know she won’t / can’t deliver and take your hope and love elsewhere.

@frami I'm really glad you had a great day, I was just wondering how you'd got on.

I've had a birthday this week and recieved a card from dm but she hasn't wrote in it, it is completely blank. I'm starting to laugh at things like this now and have blocked another family member of fbk who keeps sending me "love your mother, you'll never get another" memes. I've had a health worry this week which fortunately turned out OK, if this had been last year or the year before etc I'd be completely floored. I'm taking this as progress for me.

Just another big thank you to the posters 9n here. Having this thread does make a difference.

IncludesFreeOnlineEdition

You owe your mother nothing, least of all a relationship.

You can still give up the power of attorney role she foisted on you and I would have no compunction about doing so. She's trained you really from childhood to put her first with your needs and wants dead last. She has got you to do this as a way of further controlling you; she would never have given her useless golden child son such a task.

HardPillow

Well done re those boundaries!. Maintain those as and when necessary.

Good to hear that you're ok re your health.

Just a little reminder note here about going NC... It is totally normal to go into grieving, because it is bereavement. We grieve for the loss, no matter how toxic the person was. And just like grieving a death, the process can take a long time.

So for everyone experiencing that grief (which is extra-complicated because it's all mixed up with the FOG of fear, obligation and guilt), this is normal. Allow yourself the space to process those feelings, and be extra gentle with yourself. Show yourself the kindness and forgiveness that was never shown to you.

Solidarity to all.

Anotherporkypie

So sorry to read this, what happened to you re the sexual abuse is not your fault in any way. Its all entirely on the perpetrater. You may or may not be aware of NAPAC so I have put in a link for you. You may find contacting them helpful. napac.org.uk/

You already have physical distance and now I would put far more mental distance between your parents and you. Its not an uncommon scenario sadly for some people to remain on friendly terms with the abuser and sadly your father in particular is putting that person before you. I presume your mother just goes along with her H's wishes out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. Such people do not change, this is who they are and its not your fault they are like this either.

Re your comment:
"My husband had suggested I leave things overnight and maybe he would consider what he had said and the consequences. Instead I got a message telling me that HE was hurt and insulted".

That was always going to happen so no surprise there. In your dad's head its always someone else's fault, never their own. Your H here made the mistake of thinking that your dad was at all a reasonable and or emotionally healthy person when all evidence presents otherwise.

Thank you, I should add this isn't everyday or every week and sometimes I do break/wonder/ question etc but I do feel like I've turned a corner.

I've been a lurker for a few years but have only now felt able to comment. I have learned so much from Sicario and Attila and. I thank them. I have a toxic disconnected relationship with my mum and brother. My brother is younger than me and the golden child. He made a mess of his life financially and moved in with mum and dad when dad had terminal cancer. My dad never wanted him to but was overruled by mum and wasn't well enough to fight it. After dad died, mum became extremely needy and my brother encouraged that. He walked out of three jobs because mum always supported him. He is so passive aggressive and now drinks excessively. Mum still defends him - he's 60- and pays for everything. Brother has a really good pension and got a nice lump sum but he pays nothing towards bills or maintenance of the house he lives, Scot free, in. I am the scapegoat, I think. Mum definitely criticises everything I do. A friend of mine identified it years ago but I put up with it . The year I retired she behaved so badly to me and to my daughter that I decided to emotionally detach. I moved away to stay closer to my daughter and her family. I visit mum once a week for an hour at most. If she starts her nonsense, I leave. In my head I play badmouth bingo. New Year's Day dinner was complaint after complaint I asked her if she wanted a drink. She complained I usually asked if she wanted a sherry. I asked her if she wanted a sherry. No, she didn't. Her complaints were so ridiculous I actually laughed and she left to go home. Since then she has refused to see me when I've visited twice and she's gone back to bed. My brother lets me drive over and then tells me she's sleeping. So I've decided not to go back. I'm going very LC and it removes the weight of duty visit from my shoulders. So thank you all for helping me shed the guilt.

Hi all. Sorry to see so many new posters here but it's a great thread which has helped me a lot over the years.
I'm back with my old mn nickname (twirls).
My life continues to be absolute clown shoes:(
The latest is that a 77 year old married relative of my dh hit on me last week. Yep. He even wrote a note detailing when his wife would not be at home.
Obviously blocked his number and told my dh. Still shocked tbh.
What is it about me that people think they can say and do whatever they want with no consequences? My parents, siblings, dh, pils and now this fucker!
It's not done much for my ego either!
Mum continues plodding on. She's getting frailer. As are pil. Going to have to set some boundaries there I think.

Hello. I had heard about this thread and thought I'd post.

I wondered if anyone has had a parent die while they were nc. Not the nicest of subjects but my dad is unlikely to live much longer so it's come up for me. I am actually nc with my mum but my dad has enabled her treatment of me by believing her lies and I my last words with him since being nc were, are you ok with how she treats me?
He went silent and walked away from me. That's the last time I saw him.I have been nc with them both for 4 years.

I wish that I could talk to him without my mum knowing but it's not possible. My mum will definitely use it to stir more trouble for me and I can't take any more than I've already gone through. I've had to make peace it's unlikely I will speak to my dad again but I wondered if anyone has been nc with their family and someone has died and what happened. I hate the idea I won't even know if he's died but I do think that may happen for me.

Do you have an understanding family who could broker a meeting / call directly with you Dad? They could ask him directly what his wishes were.

This would cut out the middle man (ie your M if she is an obstacle and likely to block and/or make drama if you approached her).

Also “sunlight is the best disinfectant” - and your M might just behave herself.

When my DM was dying in hospital of cancer the end of lift nurses spoke to her early one morning about her wishes (in that case it was if she wanted it to come home to die) but professionally this is a standard approach as they are aware that emotions are heightened, an the ill person is often overridden by others.

What do you want to say to him?

@TicketMasterMind no unfortunately there's no one.
I don't know what I want to say. I think I'm dreading more not knowing at all if he has died
And worse the feeling that the last time I saw him he turned away and walked off. But it could be he doesn't even want to see me anyway.

Hi all, I've been following this thread for awhile but I've recently been through something and could use some help.
I've basically become estranged from a sibling but in fairness the feelings mutual. They dragged my child into drama and after years of putting up with bad behaviour from them this is the last straw.
The problem is we live in the same area, i see them every day. They've been ignoring my family, including my kids which just cements things for me.
But I feel anxiety every time I see them and find myself checking to see if the coast is clear so to speak.
How do I get over this feeling, we are in no position to move for the next ten years at least . I feel no guilt over the situation that led to the estrangement so why am I giving them so much head space?

@Suaimhneas23 Its totally normal to feel anxiety about meeting someone who has caused you so much drama and aggravation. You probably also know that being ignored isn't the end of their drama, but just another phase.
Try reading 'I'm OK, You're OK' by Thomas Harris. He explains concepts like adult to adult interactions, and the drama triangle (Victim, Persecutor, Rescuer).
Once you can recognise which phase they are in, its then possible to start to predict what their next move will be, and you won't feel so helpless or at their mercy. Then you can get some emotional distance between you, so their actions won't affect you so much.

Thanks so much for the reply. I found out today that this sibling and their partner are telling people about the situation that led to the estrangement (small village) but are telling it in a one sided way to make my child look frankly awful.(I'm sorry to be so vague) I didn't tell people about it I was just moving on with my life. I'm struggling today. My partner says to ignore them water off a ducks back to them and my other sibling. But I feel like I'm drowning. I've blocked them both and I'm trying to get counselling organised. I feel like I need to be angry, what they did was awful and unforgivable for dragging my child into it, but I just feel sad and weak even. They always seem to be in the middle of drama there's other people they don't speak to and I'll just be added to the list. I just can't believe they're doing this.

That is awful - try to remember that liars are frequently exposed because they can't change reality. Try to carry on as normal when you are with other people.

Theinebriati I'm trying, it just feels so unfair. I've seen them do this before when fighting with people. They're so believable, I never really paid it much attention before as everyone knew what they were like. Saying stuff about my kid is horrifying and I wonder if people will believe it? Nevermind whatever problem they have with me, they're spreading stories about a 9 year old! I will look at the book you recommended later on tonight. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

@Chevyimpala67 welcome back with your fab name. WTAF. Who are these people!?!?

@qwertycookie so sorry for what you're going through. @Sicario has experience of this situation.

@Suaimhneas23 awful situation. I'd look for some free anxiety resources online like quick meditations and confidence builders. It definitely helps generally as a way of coping. I use it with The Hag (toxic MIL) If I didn't - although I offload here - I would be in prison. Keep remembering what an ace child you have and that evidence outweighs gossip.

10 days since my last post about The Hag - the toxic MIL. We had ridiculous drama where she thought MM WAS LYING ABOUT HIS INABILITY TO TAKE THE WITCH FOR A MEDICAL APPOINTMENT AS HE HAD COVID.

Slave Son takes her for a cancer check up for this thing on her face. Its very risk free cancer and might require treatment in three months. She was absolutely vile to Slave Son, but he’s made his life shit by not standing up to her. I have no sympathy.

All good here. We went away at the weekend. No phone calls.

This evening she rings complaining about her block of flats. Neighbour below has her TV on ery loud. I’m surprised the Hag can hear as her TV is loud enough and on constantly. Hag keeps going down to complain and this is causing friction. Having seen The Hag at first hand, i doubt very much that she’s civil. She is unable to be. So, huge war has broken out.

Mr Monkey: talk to the caretaker, talk to the Housing Association or i can go round.
Hag: no . i hate it here.
Mr Monkey: you have the option of moving to a really nice flat in sheltered accomodation.* Monkey got you at the top of the waiting list a couple of years ago, but she cancelled it as you didn’t want it.

*shop, cafe, hairdressers on site. Support if needed.

A bout of word salad as she can’t remember, despite having gone there for lunch with her one and only friend and using the hairdresser there last week. Hag has selective memory to suit the situation. The same is true of her fraility and her hearing. Unable to do ANYTHING when shes had to stay here (dreadful), but claims she can do absolutely everything herself (and pretty much does, apart from washing her filthy clothes out of choice) so the Carers can’t do anything.

Hag: it’s too expensive
MM: it’s perfectly within your budget
Hag: i’ll just go and live with Slave Son.*

*death trap stairs, no spare room, totally unsuitable and it would destroy him.

Obviously, aimed to guilt trip MM.

Total bollocks.

The place the fucking bitch wants to live is here AND THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

MM no longer feels guilty or obliged. That ship has sailed. I’m well past giving any kind of fuck about the horrible bitch.

@qwertycookie - Yes, I've been in that situation. I am NC with my entire FOO (family of origin) and my DM died last year. Even though my DM was highly abusive when I was young, we managed to have a relationship, even though I found her very difficult, which became totally untenable due to my nightmare Toxic Sister. Long story short I eventually realized that they were both cut from the same cloth and threw in the towel.

I found out via my kids that DM had died. Instead of contacting me directly,Toxic Sister turned it into a massive dramatic circus of flying monkeys. It was a shit show (still is) and Toxic Sister together with her arsehole husband really ramped up the toxic behaviour, including them having coerced her into changing her will to remove me as executor and cut out ALL the grandchildren.

I don’t regret going NC and I knew that the death would be on the cards at some point, but there was absolutely no way I was walking back into that viper’s nest.

There is no “making peace” with toxic people. It’s like trying to put out a fire with kerosene.

Death is inevitable, and I would try not to worry about it. The important thing is that you make peace with yourself. Not with the toxic person/s.

@Suaimhneas23 - It feels unfair because it IS unfair. There’s nothing you can do about it. I’ve had this for years with Toxic Sister and BIL. They come across as so reasonable and believable, presenting as all sweetness and light. But this is often the way with toxic people. All I would say is that people do eventually see through the mask, given time. Try to hold yourself steady, hold your head up, and emotionally detach.

Remember that when they are pointing the finger at you (or indeed your child), they have three fingers pointing towards themselves.

@MonkeyfromManchester - having no fucks left to give is an excellent position to be in!

@Suaimhneas23
when your kids are brought into their toxic games it does make you draw a line. Keep you head held high - from experience with this I’ll bet most people see through the behaviour but it’s like being back in the playground with the ‘mean girls’. I can recommend counselling - good luck with that 💐