November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

Ydkiml

That course of action can certainly be tried as well though the narcissist will likely continue to send in the flying monkeys. It may well be that some people would already have their private based suspicions re the toxic person and so they would not be all that surprised. On the other hand many people do not always readily understand such situations even if spelt out to them, we've probably all heard on here a version of, "well you only have one mother/father, what happens when she/he dies" etc.

In the case of Greggs if it was possible to move away I would certainly do so and I completely realise its not an easy process to actually move.

@Stickytoff that’s so incredibly brave of you. Sexual abuse/violence is so shaming (personal experience) that it's so hard to speak out. How your parents live with themselves - God only knows.

Jesus, the fucking hag today is EXCELLING herself today.

So, she's had this disgusting canker on her face for a year. Could be cancer, but of course better to refuse to go to the doctor about it DESPITE GOING TO THE DOCTOR CONSTANTLY where she could just bring it up. Mr Monkey was practically begging her to go to see the doctor. I told him not to beg, but I get his worry. Er, actually I DON’T.

It was when the CARERS told her to see her doctor that she did so. She got referred.

She sat on our sofa on Xmas Day and announced to her gathered ‘fans’ (hardly) that she had cancer. It is not cancer, as it hasn't been diagnosed.

No one engaged.

So, today, MM has chased up the appointment for her, it is next Tuesday.

He has Covid so he can’t take her as mingling with chemo patients etc.

There has been no point telling her about his Covid as she would turn it into a drama. The drama, of course, would be like earlier last year when we both had it and were isolating. Huge drama because we’d stolen her limelight and she wanted to get Covid (if only) of course, there was no questions from either Hag or Slave Son (because his focus is entirely on Hag because of her abuse of him) as to what we might need so we relied on our neighbours and my mum who lives 30 minutes drive away.

Anyway, back to Cancer World War Three.

I immediately said I'm not taking her (pat on the back to me) which he was fine with. I didn't need to give an excuse about tons of work piled up due to her utter shit before Xmas where I lost three days of concentration due to her SCREAMING.

‘My mum might be able to take her’ - she probably would.
MM phones her, she can’t as taking a nice old lady to an appointment.

So, MM calls Slave Son ‘can you take her?’
‘Yep’

MM phones Hag with this solution. Cue SCREAMING despite him explaining he is still infectious and can't risk cancer patients. Of course, this is of absolutely no interest to the nice Irish Catholic lady. Why would they matter? He tries to persuade her that Slave Son is capable of taking her, yes, he’s disabled but takes himself to that hospital in a taxi for his neurological appointments. Cue SCREAMING. She wants MM to take her.

‘You need to go to the appointment and can't take you’
‘Why not?’
‘I’ve explained’
‘Well, I won't go then’
‘You need to go as they need to check it out and if we cancel we won't get an appointment immediately’

SHE. SLAMS. DOWN. THE. PHONE.

Me: ‘phone Slave Son and get him to sort it with her. He's 50% responsible for her now’

He phones Slave Son. Slave Son agrees to call her and take her.

I tell MM to switch off his phone for the rest of the time he's at work today (at home, working for a front line charity) and let Slave Son deal with it all. Not sure whether he has.

MM needs to swerve all of this shit.

This one is going to run and run and run. I hope it is cancer.

The fact that I've completely checked out from her, my mum is disengaged, she's resentful of and cut off from her wider family - her nephew lives 2 minutes walk from us, but she NEVER makes the effort and I'm pretty sure he thinks she's a freak - means she has fuck all support. And we will NOT be taking more on.

End to End Martyrdom and Emotional Abuse.

You could not make this shit up.

Monkey

More of the same from the Hag I am sorry to say.

MM needs to turn off his phone now if he has not already done so.

You need to be careful when narcissists go at all quiet on you as they are likely setting you up for behaving further badly.

And if it is cancer she will become ever more drama personified and dining out on this for months to come.

Hopefully slave son has spoken to her now and from that conversation will be taking her.

Hi,
I hope you don't mind me pushing a toe through the door.
I wouldn't know where to start with it all. I'm currently in the middle of a very stressful situation and it is happening in my home so I'm forced to ride it out until a property (not my home) is sold etc.

I just wanted to enter a "room" where people understand and show human kindness.

@2023newyear welcome. Lots of kind people here. Share your story and you'll get lots of kindness and support.

Forum has been a god send for me since 2020.

@MonkeyfromManchester thanks so much for the advice, I realised my boundary is not hosting her over night or staying over at hers. She can visit for a couple of hours when it's convenient for our family though, to see her grand children. But she cannot look after my children unsupervised.
Those are the boundaries and she can fit around them. In between those visits it's grey rock all the way. Which is easy as she doesn't really care about us anyway

Oh god that sounds like stresses upon stresses with HAG. Well done for putting your foot down! My MIL is sweet hearted but she expects the earth from her sons, way more than mothers expect of daughters I think. Currently my MIL has various ailments and refuses to go to hospital and wants us to pick her up in a 10 hour round trip. Luckily DH put his foot down. I do feel for her tho, she's on her own and lives far away.

@2023newyear welcome! When you are ready to open up, we are here to listen.

@AttilaTheMeerkat yep, he turned his phone off as I suggested.

I'm going to remind him that he needs to do this every working day as it works to fend her off and keep his stress levels down.

He told Slave Son to sort it out with her. Mr Monkey rings him at 6pm when he's finished work to ask him how it went.

Slave Son: oh you know what she's like, she doesn't listen.

Big fact code for ‘I can't stand up to her as 64 year old man who's been crushed and allowed my life to ebb away so can you please do it.’

MM rings the Lair.

Her latest game is to not to say anything when she picks up the phone.

Any ideas? No, me neither.

MM: right, Slave Son is taking you on Tuesday
A ton of word salad
MM: I can't take you to a cancer ward as I have Covid.
Hag: you never said you had covid. You suddenly got covid. You don't have covid. You're lying to me so you don't have to take me. You don't want to take me. Etc etc etc

The nugget behind this absolute gem is that I've put him up to this and forbidden him to take her.

Yes, ladies, I've tainted a whole box of Boots Covid lateral flow tests with Covid from the medical grade virology lab in our loft to this very end.

She now daren't say to MM that she blames me as Hag knows any bad mouthing of me directly to MM puts her in a very dangerous place where it might very well mean ‘adieu, fuck off and don't forget to close the door’ as MM now sees how a lot of her behaviour relates to me.

The upshot is that Slave Son IS now taking her.

The other thing I've discussed with MM is that any arguments about going or not going needs to be directed to Slave Son, not him. Turn the phone off, don't engage.

My blood boils about this threat not to go ‘yes, why not waste NHS time when it's at crisis point, and you push some other person down the queue because you're a selfish bitch. An appointment which costs £180 upwards.’

If anyone talks to me about the selfless Blitz generation, I've got an example of the absolute opposite in the suburbs of Manchester.

@AttilaTheMeerkat oh God yes, any cancer diagnosis is going to up the drama. She’ll be eating ready meals to dine out on this shit on her own.

The wicked daughter in law ‘who only cares about herself’ will not be dealing with any of it. I will support my partner, but not her. If it is cancer, I will be researching community help for cancer ‘cos MM can't take the strain, Slave Son is a dickhead, she ain't coming here and I'm not dealing with the witch. I'm also going to suggest that someone contacts Golden Boy to pick up some of the slack and throws money at the problem.

He can buy her that longed for wind lashed rock in the Atlantic.

So sad as a lovely older friend in their 70s from my former career has died of cancer. Such a kind and gentle and giving person who did so much for others. The contrast with the Hag does not go unnoticed.

@winningeasy fantastic news on what you've decided and put into place. We Stately Home ladies loves our boundaries.

Off premises visits are pretty good too.

The appearance of someone - in a dressing gown - that you don't want in your life does not make one feel good. I speak from bitter experience!

Social workers are your friends in situations with your MIL if she's getting infirm. They can put care packages in place.

Sorry, me AGAIN.

SO, I've got a ton of deadlines - freelance life: don't work, don't eat (but I did win a contract this morning - whoop) - and Mr Monkey is on deadlines.

Whilst I'm pitching for the big bit of work (hello, holiday!), the Hag phones having decided she's got Covid.

Does she have any symptoms?

‘No.

She wants a test.

If you don't have symptoms you don't need a test.

Who will administer a test?

Hag wants Mr Monkey to do the test.

Him: I can't do the test as I have Covid.
Hag: I don't inderstand
Him: yes, you do.

SCREAMING. Round in circles.

She OBVIOUSLY wants to have Covid as

1. attention seeking

2. this will mean postponing the cancer tests on Tuesday so MM will be able to take her despite Slave Son being perfectly able to take Hag for tests and this has been confirmed by Slave Son and ARRANGED.

3. I think she thinks I've told him he can't take her and that he's exiting those medical responsibilities.

He rings off. Got to go I'm at work.

Phone call at lunchtime. Why doesn't he switch his phone off?

SCREAMING

YOU DON’T WANT TO TAKE ME. YOU HAVEN’T GOT COVID. YOU ARE LYING. YOU DON’T CARE ABOUT ME. NO ONE CARES ABOUT ME.

she slams the phone down leaving him dumbfounded.

I go downstairs: switch your phone off.

He switches his phone off. He does not have voice mail on his phone.

God, can you imagine?

I am using my new contract to pay for an assassin.

Going to have a serious talk with him later. Fuck Dry January.

Christ, she's an evil old witch isn't she?
It's not lost on me how wonderful caring loving people die young and the twisted arse holes go on...
Just heard of a 22 year old who died on Xmas eve. Where is the fucking justice?

@MonkeyfromManchester that sounds absolutely batshit. How do you deal with it all ? It would be enough to drive anyone crazy. Your poor husband.

@Stickytoff it’s beyond awful. It's exhausting.

This is not old age, she's always been abusive. As she's aged, she's alienated people so we are the only ones left to help.

Well, not me, I'm OUT.

I think the real key to it all is her jealousy and possessive nature. She OWNS her sons. Not Mr Monkey any more, though.

I'm the interloper (15 years we’ve been together) and she thinks I've engineered the Covid 19 to ‘stop’ MM taking her. It’ridiculous. She is in crisis because her world order has crumbled. At some other point - fuck knows when - we've had a strop over a medical appointment for the same reason.

The ONLY person with any emotional intelligence or common sense is MM. Slave Son has phoned MM several times in the last hour - MM IS AT FUCKING WORK - to ask about what medication she takes as needed by the hospital.

MM: take the blister pack of meds. Get a list of up to date meds from her chemist. You need to pick it up from the chemist.

Slave Son in his 60s used to have a relatively high level local authority job before being medically retired but has been so infantalised by Hag that HE CAN’T THINK FOR HIMSELF.

Why he's stuck around I don't know. In his 20s the Hag threw a shoe at him which split his head wide open so he had to go to casualty. The next week she did it AGAIN. I would have walked out at that point.

I print the letter out about the hospital and the map. Slave Son’s printer hasn't worked for three years.

MM had turned his mobile off, but she started to ring the landline (ignored) as she didn't get her own way.

The sooner she's on the rock in the Atlantic the better. Or dead.

@Thatsasmashingblouseyouvegoton you are SO right. I'm so sorry about that young person. You are so right about there's no justice. The spite and bile she has keeps her nasty body alive.

It's fucking ridiculous. Wine is getting opened at 6 on the dot. Fuck Dry January.

@MonkeyfromManchester she is such a bloody drama queen to the millionth degree! Have you considered mandating a temporary block to MM? I mean just so you can have a peaceful weekend. Block her number (or just turn off phone all weekend) and unplug the landline, and reinstate on Monday. You don't have explain why. But she needs to see there are consequences.

I know it's a tough one, you don't want to tell anyone what to do with their Mother but you both work hard obviously, and you need a break from this drama. And ultimately you have been dealing with this stuff for 15 years now, you're as affected as him and enough is enough now. I can't imagine how badly this affects your mental health, it's tantamount to stalking and intimidation.
She has Slave Son and her carers, and no action is needed until Tuesday.
I hope you can figure this out.

Sending hugs xx

Hi I'm a long time lurker first time poster. I posted a long rambly thread and just go 1 reply so thought maybe I'm better here. I've always felt conflicted about whether I actually belong here.

Basically my dad is very selfish and quite controlling / bullying mainly to my mum. So she has developed, what I feel is significant undiagnosed depression and anxiety (I have this and take med so have some insight)

This meant growing up and now they were very self involved, my dad was very absent, made decisions not in their children's best interests and never really celebrated success it was just expected.
My mum massively avoid conflict and has developed loads of behaviours which directly or indirectly are about pleading him. This combined with her mh means she is very self /him involved lots of the time. My sis feels the same.

I don't like my dad but do get on with my mum to an extent. As although I've said all this stuff she tries and I feel lots of her behaviour is due to how my dad is whereas he's just unpleasant.

Anyway me and my dad ended up arguing which is rare actually as I would normally just ignore his shit. My mum is devastated as I won't speak to him and its come out how I feel about him. But tbh I'm sort of shocked she's shocked.

She said things aren't that bad between them as I think she thought it was just their relationship informing my view of him, but she's complained about him my whole life.... But he's done plenty on his own to make me think of him as I do!

She's now acting really upset and I'm really struggling as to how much of it is emotional manipulation even is she's not aware.. As without going into lots of detail on a long post already it's had away bigger impact on me practically.

I don't even know why I'm posting just wanted to share...

Hello again everyone,

Thank you for all your replies, I did read them all and then needed to take a moment to let them sink in.

I guess I already knew the answer to my question, don't tell mother about the autism assessment, and for the sake of my own mental health and peace probably not worth starting ww3 by trying to get her to stop calling me autistic. My priority is to see my niblings, to keep an eye on how mother treats them and to show them that there's someone in the family who will stick up for them and who thinks and acts in an emotionally healthy way.

I will also say that there were some nice parts of my childhood too, it wasn't all bad.

I'm going to try to answer some questions now

@MonkeyfromManchester yes I have looked up narcissist traits and agree she shows a lot of them. I also wonder if she's autistic herself, or has trauma/attachment issues because she was adopted, ooor if she's just plain mean.

My niblings age from 10 down to 6 weeks, my bro has 6 kids. Mother has always had each of them for a day of childcare before they started nursery, and I would go over and see them then too.

She's been married to her husband for about 5 years, he is very poorly and was bankrupt when they met (he also reads the sun and thinks refugees should go back to their own country, women should be at home with babies and men should be in the pub...) Think he feeds into her need or being needed. We used to do stuff together before she married, day trips and shopping etc, but she's completely ditched me for him now (which hurt at the time but I'm kind of glad about now!).

@Stickytoff thank you for saying that! Your description does sound like my mother, and autism is inherited , so I think I know where I got it from!

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you. I can see what you're saying about moving, and do agree, and we have looked at it. I've lived away before but moved back and really value my home and my community here. My executive planning and need for familiarity would make it very hard to move. Mums in her seventies, is it bad that I'm hoping she'll die soon, or have to go to sheltered accommodation so I can stay where I am.

Re the volunteering at my workplace, she collects and delivers things, so isn't actually working alongside me. After thinking about what you've said I can definitely make myself scarce when I know she'll be in, to cut off her supply. She has raised eyebrows at work, most famously asking my colleague 'dont you know who I am!?' when he didn't recognise her.

@Ydkiml thank you, your message means a lot. I am in my late 30s and mother in her 70s.

Also, I have definitely started telling more people a more truthful version of my life, just to say 'i have a difficult relationship with my mother ' 'no I'm not in touch with my brother because he was violent and shouty when we were growing up'. It does help.

@Stickytoff wow, I'm in awe of your strength. And impressed. And sorry you've had to go through that. I'm not sure I could do that, do your parents ever try to engage with you? What happens when you see them in the street?

@GreggsVeganSausageRoll

Hi I haven't read your whole back story, but posted a newbie and didn't want to just unload and not try to support.

It's interesting what you say about there being good bit to your childhood. I feel that too and I feel it makes it hard to acknowledge the bad things for me.

Also about being honest, I feel this too. I had an incident last week which had a big impact and needed to tell people at work as I was upset and exhausted. But if been told something about a colleague's family a few weeks ago. It made me feel like this stuff is more normal than we realise so I felt I could be honest. Which hopefully in turn makes people feel the same. So definitely kepp being honest when you can!

@winningeasy I have bipolar and she does make it far worse. Well, she did. I’m now NC which is far better for me on every level. Mr Monkey and I get anxious when she’s as hideous as this but I’ve got counselling and my Calm app. MM had counselling last year and it’s helped him hugely.

yep, MM has switched off his mobile. She’s blocked on mine, I never answer the landline when I know she’s ringing. She thinks she can only ring landlines from her landline. It’s not near her chair which is great as she likes to be abusive in comfort. So she must be livid if she rings our phone so MM doesn’t pick up. He just needs to give her Slave Son the letter so he’s taking it out to his car tomorrow. MM will wear a mask and get out of her way ASAP. He’s now negative but he’s not changing his plans. I’m off out tomorrow as can’t deal with the shit. Phone switched off by MM today and then after that interaction until Tue. He needs to stick to his guns on all of this which he’s increasingly doing. Proud. X x

Whyitssisohard - is sounds like your mam is so upset at the argument because it now puts her in a position, she maybe getting forced by him to pick between you or him . It makes it hard for her to be in the middle . This isn’t your responsibility tho . You don’t have to have a relationship with him if you don’t want to. But I suggest you don’t speak of him when you with your mam . Tell her how much you love her and like her company . We’re you abused yourself in any way by them in your life ?

@MonkeyfromManchester bravo to MM for turning his phone off!!

There's also a way to divert a specific incoming call to another number (any number), so that could be an amusing wind up hahahaha x

@Ydkiml yeah I know she feels in the middle. I don't feel she is being forced to pick. But will def have him trying to get her to fix things.

They were not what I'd call abusive. But, there were quite a lot of times when decisions which were not in my best interests were made. Although I think they would deny this! There was also a lot of tension and arguing at times between them which impacted us. Making home feel quite stressful, I feel their relationship was stressful so my mam often seemed angry and overwhelmed, soif avoid asking for stuff I needed. I also feel there was a lot of absence both physically and emotionally from my dad and emotionally from my mam. There were also periods where due to my mam's (undiagnosed) depression stuff like having food in, a clean and uncluttered house and that type of thing were neglected.

Do nothing like people experience in terms of abuse but I don't know... Not the best

Whyisitsososohard

What is your definition of abuse?.

Abusers are not nasty all the time because if they were, no-one would want to be with them. What is continuous though is their nice/nasty cycle of abuse and you most certainly grew up in a stressful and dysfunctional household. That will have an impact on you to this very day.

Your mother has chosen to stay with your father for her own reasons; none of which are to do with you personally. She gets what she wants out of this dysfunctional and otherwise codependent relationship she has with your father and it is unlikely she will ever leave him. It could be argued that she has thrown you as her now adult children under the bus due to self preservation and her want of a quiet life, she has also failed you utterly as your parent. Its also utterly unfair of her to have made you and keep on making you her confidant.

If they did not always act in your best interests then at the very least they were self serving and that could also be seen as abusive behaviour in them. Abuse as well is not just physical in nature and there are many types. Abuse too is about power and control and they had absolute here over you as a child.

None of that was your fault and this is all on the people who did this; your mother and father. They had a choice when it came to you as their child and instead of seeking the necessary help they doled out the same to you as likely their parents did to them. People also tend to gravitate to or perhaps even repeat in their relationships what they already know and pound to a penny your mother's parents relationship was abusive as well.

I’m relieved that relationships like these are being discussed in terms of abuse, particularly as it’s difficult to get abuse recognised if it’s coming from extended family members who don’t live with you instead of an intimate partner who lives with you.

Over the years, we have endured financial, economic and coercive abuse from our ILs, before it was recognised as such and before these things were recognised as abuse - I knew that what was happening to us was deeply, deeply wrong, but didn’t even have the vocabulary to describe what we were going through - after all, family members are supposed to help each other out, right? What’s worse is that to everyone else, it looked like they were generously helping us out while cleaning us out for years behind closed doors and there was nothing we could do about it. By “cleaning us out”, I mean they limited our finances to the extent that we couldn’t afford food (we had little kids), couldn’t heat our home, couldn’t afford clothing (I had to beg for friends’ cast-offs), couldn’t afford childcare so I could go out to work (and, knowing this, the ILs refused to help with childcare), couldn’t afford any holidays, couldn’t afford to maintain the skills I needed for my career.

I did write more, but deleted it because I thought there was a chance I could be identified from what I’d written. Although this happened years ago, we are still living with the long term effects, both emotionally and financially. Career-wise, it’s been devastating for me.

And yet still I’m expected to be grateful…

@MonkeyfromManchester - I'm glad you're finding it so much better going NC from the Hag. She sounds like a Dementor in fact. I am in admiration how you have supported Mr Monkey through this and how he is growing in confidence to set his own boundaries. DH comes from an emotionally secure family, and he struggles often to understand my toxic family but at least now, he has understood and respected my boundaries and is no longer trying to persuade me to make peace with my toxic family.

@Saltysalty - this sounds like your ILs use money to control you and your family. It comes as no surprise they don't give you enough money to make you independent and I bet any help they give you comes at a price.

@Whyisitsososohard - your DM and DF sound like they have a co-dependent relationship. My parents have similar and like you, I had to listen to all their moans about each other, but heaven forbid if I said anything detrimental about them! Years ago I went NC with my DF for a year, and during that time, I was constantly guilt-tripped and persuaded by DM and DSis to make peace and forgive and forget - even they know DF is an arsehole. I was told 'you know what he is like, that is just him, we have to accept just it. You know he'll never change'. I did eventually, but I felt resentful. It is as if your feelings don't matter, that you are expected to compromise and they don't. Our own feelings never get any airtime or respect. I'm so much happier and at peace now that I am NC with both parents and Dsis. My parents can deal with and suffer the consequences of their own fckd up relationship and at least I am not party nor audience to any of it. I am so much calmer and happier as a result.

@2023newyear - just thinking of you. There are so many people on here at different stages of their toxic families and relationship. It's sad there so many of us. We are here to listen.

@Ydkiml - it is hard living in the same town as your toxic families. I find they love nothing better than to spread gossip and bad mouth - particularly if it is to elicit sympathy for them. I have to come to terms with it and decided anyone who believes their shit, is no friend of mine or worth knowing. My own little family and good friends know me for who I truly am, and that is what matters. As hard as it seems, try to ignore them. I know quite a lot of my DM's, DF's and DSis 'friends' think that they are batshit crazy or weird anyway.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I’ve name changed since I last posted on here but I just wanted to say a big thank you. I posted a couple of times towards the end of last year and your thoughtful replies really helped me. It meant a lot.

Thank you for your very insightful replies @AttilaTheMeerkat and @MyFragility apologies for delay in replying. I've just been processing and thinking.... I've also got loads going on after a big fall out.

We were staying with my parents due to a house sale and purchase not lining up. I do feel foolish that I let my mum convince me it would be fine. Anyway we had to leave and stay in a hotel, and now are in an expensive air b n b. And I'm in a new job, who've been amazing considering this happened in my first week.

Anyway what I'm specifically struggling with is the fallout was a culmination of the behaviour I've mentioned in a few posts. The result of having to move has been hugely disruptive too. Yet my parents seem very focused in the detail of the argument. Which honestly I wasn't that angry and definitely not the unreasonable one. So it just feels like an insult really and yet another example of their self involvement. I do want to try to repair the relationship but honestly at this point I'm struggling not to feel angry that they feel they are a legitimately wronged party.

I'm sure others have experience with this. How do I move forward and stay true to myself?