November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

Go ahead @WingingItSince1973

Ok so here goes. I'm 50 in a few months. When I was 6 my step father sexually abused me. Usually when my mother was at work. It came out one day and I remember standing in my nans hallway and my mother slapping me across the face for telling such tales. I hadn't said anything other than my dad showed me his Willy. Anyway they found evidence of his abuse hidden behind a bath panel at home. So they split up which left my mother with me and my baby brother. I had a hard time sleeping and after and incident on a school trip which meant I was sent home early I was terrified to sleep on my own. So my mother and her new boyfriend would tie me to my bed with rope to stop me getting out of bed and disturb them. When I was free to moved around I would spend all night stood silently next to my mums bed as I felt protected there. Or I would slip into my toddler bothers bed. Anywhere than alone in my room. Then it escalated to tieing my door handle up so I couldn't get out of my room and eventually I was locked in the cupboard under the stairs. During this time we would have many a babysitter. One lot was a young lad with his friends. When they came round they used to play a game with me which meant I lied in my mothers bed and they took it in turns to grope me or whatever. I didn't tell my mum but I was still terrified of the dark and still being locked in the cupboard. Then mum met my now step dad and blended a family and we moved away. I still couldn't sleep but had a step sister sharing my room. My mum was awful to my step sister and ended up sending her to foster parents. When I say awful I mean she would beat her up for no reason. But then my mum would cry to my step dad about how awful she is. She used to soil herself in fear and hid the dirty pants in different places. When they were found she had another beating. So eventually she went to foster parents but mum
Played the victim. She then went onto beat my step brother. My now step dad was also violent to me and my step brother. Long story short I married first man and left home. Had a baby and my marriage fell apart I ended up back at my parents house who acted like my saviour. All the family thought they were amazing. Mum was mentally abusive. Falling out with me. Controlling me and my dd. Lots of little things that messed with my mind. Eventually I did meet and marry my now wonderful darling husband and went onto have 2 more dc. All my adult life I've tried to gain her approval and acceptance. We have long periods when it's really rosy and I think we've both moved on from the past. My 2 step siblings moved away at the earliest time and don't contact my parents unless absolutely necessary. Obviously my parents play the victim here and have turned family against them. I have a huge family on my mums side. Sadly my brother was murdered 17 years ago so now it's just me. She wants me to be dependant on her. She praises me and thanks me for being a wonderful daughter but if I don't respond or react to how she wants then I'm slagged off. She even slags me off to my eldest daughter. She thinks she's amazing and is the confidant of many people and how they all trust her because she tells them how it is and I'm sure plays the victim too. 6 months ago she had an op. Her controlling was ramped up. She controls my dad to an inch of his life. She wanted me to stay at hers with him while she was in hospital because she couldn't trust him to close the doors properly or not burn the house down. We had long before booked a holiday and could t change the date so she wasn't happy I was going to leave her all vulnerable. Since the op I've been the chauffeur to and from hospital for check ups and physio even though my dad drives she doesn't trust him to drive her through a busy town but now I realise she wanted me to do it all so she could boast to her friends and family what a wonderful daughter I am. She has been running me down to people even today. She's very aggressive in the way she speaks about people, even those she classes as good friends. She doesn't mince her words. She's told me plenty of times my youngest daughter needs a kick up the arse or a smack round the head. My dd has sen and is being treated for other mental health issues. Throughout my life she has never helped out when I've had my 3 c sections or my ectopic. When we recently had serious issues with my baby grandson and he needed help. She's quick to throw money at us all. She's very very generous with things and money so it really confuses me how I can think so bad of her when she will rock up and say pay a months mortgage for me or employ my husband to do maintenance on her house. The mortgage things was 8 years ago when our business went bust and we had a newborn grandson and my dh was poorly. She paid it for the month and I was so so grateful. Anyway this is very long I could go on and on and on. Why haven't I nc before now? It messes with my mental health. I have amazing in laws and great sis and bro in laws and nieces and nephews. I have wonderful friends. So why is this cloud over me at nearly 50!!! Thanks if you've made it this far xxxx

Hello @WingingItSince1973
I’ve just joined this thread. I read your post in tears. I’m very sorry for what’s happened to you in your life.
Some people don’t deserve to be parents. Having children and raising them is a privilege.

@Thatsasmashingblouseyouvegoton I hope it went OK with your mum and it passed painlessly.

I think there is a Stately Homes’ rich seam of business opportunity in greeting cards.

Happy birthday, it's all about YOU.

Have a sad life (because you choose to)

Happy Martyr Day.

Happy Toxic Mothers Day etc etc etc

@bananasindressinggowns my take on all things toxic families is trust your gut instincts. They protect you. After years of experiencing inconsistent (I'm being kind) behaviours we doubt our instincts or are critical of what we’re thinking. The gift I got from therapy was being able to really understand my feelings and that my instincts were right about my MIL. I hope you find therapy empowering. Xxx

@Stickytoff i feel so angry on your behalf. You as the victim became the victim. SO AWFUL. I I'm so glad you've got a supportive therapist.

@winningeasy

They switch it on and off.

I've seen the charm offensive by narcs. I worked with a couple who were absolutely charming to your face and wanted company wide adoration. The administrator who was shagging the director used him to pick off the people she disliked or should I say threatened by as she was lazy, untrustworthy and incompetent. She used those very words to pick people off by one by one. There was a list and she worked her way down it. It's infuriating as they focus on good people out of their total insecurity. The roles change constantly.

It's a horrible situation. Narcs walk amongst us - in families, friends and workplaces. Just awful.

@FreeIn23 SO HAPPY for you. It takes so much courage to even start the journey of thinking “hang on, this isn't righr” to getting to the closing point. We’re all here for you.

@WingingItSince1973 welcome. We’re here for you.

@WingingItSince1973 so sorry I pressed post too quickly.

I am so, so sorry that you have experienced this. Have you had counselling? If not, it might be time to consider it. With your experiences, you would get support from the NHS. The mental health system is in chaos, but persevere with waiting times. And if you have had therapy before, you can always have it again. I've dipped in and out of NHS counselling for years and it has helped me. We are all here for you. There's no judgement and no blame here. Take care xxx

@WingingItSince1973 that is shocking. I am so sorry you experienced that. The level of depravity and betrayal is so difficult to comprehend. You did not deserve that. It should never have happened and you deserved so much more. I am glad you felt able to express that and I hope that you can get to a place where you can integrate that experience knowing that it says nothing about your value and worth but also what it says about the people who should have protected you which unfortunately is a lesson you will need to know too because these people cannot be trusted by you particularly your mother who can never be the mother to you that you deserved.

@MonkeyfromManchester thank you for your kind words.

After years of experiencing inconsistent (I'm being kind) behaviours we doubt our instincts or are critical of what we’re thinking. The gift I got from therapy was being able to really understand my feelings and that my instincts were right

this is such a valuable insight.

@WingingItSince1973 a couple of other thoughts. Is your dad getting old/disabled? Your mum is certainly lining you up to step into his shoes as the person who does stuff, but is treated like shit. Familarity breeds contempt. My MIL (Hag) relies on both her sons to a huge degree and are treated like shit.

Also, yes, your mum got you out of a really hard situation, but money is also used as control in these situations. £ comes with lots of strings and obligation and CONTROL. I think when the chips are down, we would always appreciate our parents to be there for us emotionally as care givers and protective people.

Huge hugs to you.
Xxxx

@Stickytoff if I could clone my NHS therapist and send her to everyone here I would. She's flipping amazing. The inconsistency thing I can see with Mr Monkey, he's on constant alert for changes in mood, atmosphere. Abusers - OF COURSE - deem this as “over sensitive”. FFS.

He's just tested for Covud (cough and sore throat) but it's making him feel like it's his fault. That's what crap parenting does. He feels like he's the bad person all the time. With therapy, he's miles better, but his toxic childhood flares up a lot at points of difficulty. Just buying him some treats online!

Thank you so much lovely posters. I came back on to delete my post. I woke up feeling foolish. Am dreading today as she's tried to contact me over the weekend. She wants to talk to me daily. If not I get the usual guilt trip. She said to my eldest dd (dd is 28) yesterday that she's been trying to contact me all weekend, she phoned me once yesterday but I wasn't mentally ready for her so I know I have to do it today because the longer it goes on the more she will have a go at me. Anyway yes my dad is late 70s and she's late 60s. She's been grinding him down lately telling him he can't drive far and she doesn't want him driving in the dark. He's been retired 5 years now and used to daily drive hours to work. Anyway I digress but now I realise that yes she is lining me up to be her chauffeur and carer. I've always thought I'd want her to go first as my dad is much easier to deal with. We live so close to them so it's a 2 min walk away. Was much better when we lived a driving distance as she doesn't drive. Although when my brother was alive he occupied her enough and I was just the other child. I think she drove my brother to drink as although he wasn't ever abused in any way he was controlled so much by her that he became dependent on her. She has my brothers son living with her now and it's like history repeating itself. I'm the most useful one now as I drive and my dh is a builder. I'm tied to this town as my dgs and middle dd live here and I my dgs stays with me most weekends. If i loved over near my in-laws which is a 20 min drive that would be perfect as most of dhs family are in the same village and they are all such nice people. I've had one counselling as a late teen and then again after suicide attempt when I was 20. Since then I've tried self help but I do need to see my doctor. Anyway I've not ignored anyone else's posts. I've been reading them and my heart goes out to you all. Just reading your posts has helped me a great deal. Thank you xxx

@MonkeyfromManchester - I love your alternative greeting cards for toxic families. If I still sent them cards, those are the ones I would send!

@Hardpillow - I can completely empathise with your DM cards and getting nothing back and their subsequent complaints over the lack of gifts. I too used to send cards and gifts, but for me, it hit home when it was my DDs birthdays and they got absolutely sweet FA- not even a text message! I know my parents and sister are angry with my choice to cut them out of my life, but I was astounded that they chose to also punish my DDs who have not done anything wrong, especially as they are grieving too. This Christmas, I decided not to send anything too and they didn't either - it was disappointing, not altogether unexpected but I did feel less angry. It says more about them and is a good reminder of how emotionally inept they are. It did, however, break my heart that my DDs did comment over their lack of acknowledgement at Christmas, but my DDs are old enough to understand and can draw their own conclusions about my toxic family.

@FreeIn23 - enjoy that feeling of liberation going NC. I never thought I could do it and was definitely caught up in FOG (fear, obligation and guilt). I don't regret my choice at all - only that I didn't have the confidence to do it sooner. This is even in hard times , like Christmas etc, when I feel sad over the relationship I never had.

@Stickytoff - narcs are like this. They don't want to face the truth and would rather rewrite history and blame others

@WingingItSince1973 so glad you didn't delete and are still here. Honestly, this forum has helped me immeasurably since I joined three years ago. I'm a different person in my relationship with my toxic MIL and so is my partner.

You've spotted all the patterns. You're being lined up. Your brother (and I'm so sorry for your loss) was being emotionally abused through control, your nephew now and she's abusing you through control.

I think control is a very insiduous form of abuse as it can be ‘being nice’ - money, gifts etc - being needy, daily keeping in touch with nice chats, but the moment you take control back, it goes to shit. Your mum is involving your DD in the game playing which is another form of control by getting her involved and making you feel bad that she's contacting your daughter. But you know all that! Sounds like you’ve got to the point of knowing that your mum is going to ramp up the pressure on you with all her needs.

Once things got to the point with my 86 year old MIL when we worked out that as her Slave Son’s disabilities got more serious we were going to be the new slaves - it wouldn't be looking after a sweet old lady and, of course, we live 10 minutes walk away - I got onto social services and got a care package in place, medicines delivered etc etc. Forarmed is forwarded. This might not apply to your mum and dad, but having strategies really helps.

In glad you're going to talk to your doctor. It can really help. You are obviously a very strong and kind person and you will get on to a path that makes you happier.

Xxxx

Sorry getting a lot off my chest today.

Hag has now restarted the phoning Mr Monkey 5+ times a day when he was working.Control. Obvs.

He's so much better at keeping the calls short and not rising to any baiting.

Some brill person on here suggested him having a different or silent ring tone for Hag. He having a smartphone for work and a personal Nokia from 1066 can't do this. I will be working on a change to this or that he switches his phone off entirely. He did this a couple of weeks ago which helped and now needs to return to this.

He has Covid and is working at home so I hear the call which sets my teeth on edge.

I will sort this.

In her last call of the day, she has now changed her focus to New Year’s Day 2024 - ever the forward planner 🤣 - as she knows she's been ambushed on Xmas Day. She must be absolutely LIVID.

We are yet to announce that Xmas Day 2023 will be in a cheap pub - note to self BOOK it - rather than our house on the ‘grounds of her disabilites’. I will arrange this shortly.

She is utterly determined to overnight at my mum’s at some point this year.
No way.

hag: ‘So, what did you do at New Year?’

She's either being a fucking sneaky bitch or remembering a time 7 or so years ago when I did a New Year’s Day meal which was unutterably miserable - she hadn't revisited the screaming abuse, just sly digs and martyrdom and the meal was curtailed forthwith. Both, I imagine.

‘Mr Monkey ‘Nothing, we don't ever bother, we saw our friends B & J during the day for some food’

‘We always do something on New Year’s Day’

‘No, we didn't’

‘I only saw you on Xmas Day. I didn't go to Mummy Monkeys on New Year’s Day’

MM ignores her.

‘Have I done something wrong? Is that why I'm not invited?’

Obviously, this is any of the following

1. martyrdom

2. to elicit ‘of course, you didn't, you are an absolutely brilliant mother and all round person and people love spending time with you!’

3. to elicit World War 3 if MM says ‘yeah, you were absolutely vile during Xmas 2021 so that Mummy Monkey banned you and me and Monkey were actually shaking with anxiety on Boxing Day when you were dropped off back at your lair’ which would cause either tears of ‘hurt’
   and ‘disbelief’ or

4. Unleashing huge abuse

So proud of MM as he skated by, changed the subject and she was at a loss.

She KNOWS she behaves badly - of course she does - but loves the hurt she causes and the drama.

This year is going to be her saddest yet as the shift has happened and where can she put her spleen?

Proud of you mfromm . You’ve not allowed her to win the battle and ruin yours and mm Xmas . A whole year without contact for you now and you enjoy x

@Ydkiml thank you! I’m proud of myself, just exhausted and in a bipolar dip. Got my lovely counsellor at 9am. I couldn’t have put any of this into play without the fantastic support here. How are you doing? Xxxx

@MonkeyfromManchester ooo sounds like Hag is having a bit of a crisis, poor her - NOT. Well done for dealing with her push back, it's so hard to be diplomatic and maintain boundaries with a lunatic!

I feel like I am a similar situation with my mother (no where near as full on a hag tho!), I keep fobbing her off with excuses and she keeps trying organise stuff (but also forgets our bdays and Xmas lol), I don't know where we're going with this relationship after all that realisations I have been having in last year, it's like I feel I am finally getting a bit of peace (not just from this situation but from everything else going on, small child, busy partner, Xmas, illnesses, recently gone back to work) and then she pops up again.

I have told her no you can't invite yourself over during the week day, we both work, juggle childcare, dog care etc - and she is pissed off. She lives quite a way away, so I guess at least I have geography on my side.

Anyone got any tips or advice? I don't know where this is going. I just wanted to disappear away quietly but it's not happening x

@winningeasy thank you. Hag can live out her miserable days in a place of crisis!

well done on what you’ve put into action now with your mum. That’s amazing.

I had an amazing session with my counsellor - lots of cathartic crying but some brilliant help from her which might help you. This relates to me.

counselllor reminded me that hag’s rage is about being ‘found out’ and us not giving a shit about her anymore and all the strategies now in place. Like you say, crisis point for her!

this stuff is hard, but not impossible.

rome isn’t built in a day but look at how far you’ve come - celebrate.

reflect on what you do want and what you don’t want with the proviso that the abuser will never change or if they do it’s a game and status quo will soon return and will come with added punishment

I want a peaceful life. I don’t want phone calls and visits or abuse

state what you’re not - I’m not a victim, I’m not an extension of my MIL, I’m not a slave, our house is not her house

plan the good things in the year and as much as possible book them in.

remind yourself what your boundaries are - no screaming, keeping her blocked on the phone, keep her out of my house, don’t go to family meals, keep backing up Mr Monkey. Write down the boundaries and how you will action them.

remind yourself of Hag’s strategies and tactics, don’t engage and how will you not engage and YOU DON’T HAVE TO ENGAGE.

rethink Xmas massively, we’re seriously considering going away for Xmas at Mr Monkey’s suggestion last night (!) so start researching, put plans in place, budget and work out a plan

it was really helpful

i think it’s about continuing to stand firm with your mum - no, you’re not coming over, choosing neutral spots if you have to see her. Lessen the contact. Put her number on a special ring tone - Hag is blocked on mine.

We can do it!

xxxx

Hello

Could I ask for some advice please you all seem wise! I've been reading here for years and lurking about.

*Also, I realise this is really long, and I'm sorry, noones under any obligation to read it all, but it felt really good to get it out!

My mother has been calling me autistic since I was about 10 (when she started working with SEN children). Such as 'you are soo autistic ' 'and you say you're NOT autistic?' 'come on my little autistic pal' 'Sheldon' etc etc. She still does this now, has started doing it to my niece, and points out people she thinks are autistic in the street (eg 'is it bad that I can instantly tell someone's on the spectrum just by looking at them')

A couple of years ago I had a nervous breakdown, had time off work, started antidepressants and have had 2 lots of NHS therapy.

Mother did not notice any of this.

My therapist has referred me for an autism assessment, I think I am autistic, and I'm finally at the top of the list and will have the assessment in the next month or so.

I have no plans on telling her any of this, but I do want her to stop with her autism obsession. Do you think it's even worth trying to set a boundary with her about it? And if so I'm not even sure how to word it. Last time I tried a boundary was during lockdown, she kept having family and neighbours round her house and claimed to be in a support bubble with them, I told her I wasn't going to tell her what to do, but to stop telling me about it because it was upsetting me, as I'm vulnerable as is her husband and it was making me uncomfortable and worried she shouted then stormed off.

The reason I'm still in touch with her is because I see my nieces and nephews when she has them. I'm not really in touch with my brother , mother is the lesser of 2 evils (I think...) And it's important to me to see the kids. Also I made the mistake of moving literally round the corner from her, and we live in the same small town, so it would be very awkward logistically to cut her off. (We moved here before I realised how bad she was)

I'm currently very grey rock with her and she knows hardly anything about my life, and try to only see her when she has the kids over.

I am boilingly angry with her right now, who works with SEN children, suspects their daughter has autism and does absolutely nothing to help them other than tease them about it.

I realised she has never been on my side when she told my then boyfriend (now husband) as we were moving in together 'x is very difficult to live with, if you ever need to talk someone in here for you'. She also let my large brother beat me up several times a week for my whole teenage years, never gave me any privacy, shared my secrets, would tell me to go and live with my father (who left and cut off contact with me when I was 11, and has never acknowledged me since. despite the fact he still lives in the same town as me) lots of criticism of my appearance (wouldn't buy me new shoes until I learnt to walk with my feet straight, 'a ponytail is NOT a hair style, you may as well cut it all off if you're just going to scrape it back like that' every morning before school etc etc), told me as a child that she never wanted children but when they moved she couldn't get a job and thought children would help her meet new people, repeatedly recounted my traumatic birth story and called me big head cos I got stuck, told me children are like dogs you just need to train them, was and still is horrifically sexist and racist. She volunteers at my workplace, as another way to try to gain some control. I've had to block her on several social medias as she was using them to track me, she makes snarky comments on posts I make for my works Facebook. She calls herself the worlds best mother. She seems really nice and people always tell me I'm lucky to have her.

I realise this is really long, and probably outing if someone I know reads this. But it felt so good to get it out I couldn't stop writing. Sigh. It sounds pretty bad written down but I still wonder if I'm the problem.

Thank you to everyone who shares their stories here. It helps so much.

@GreggsVeganSausageRoll welcome! And your name has made me hungry!

You’ve found a supportive place here. And good luck with your autism assessment to discover more - the appointments are rarer than hen’s teeth!

First off. You’re not a nightmare.

Your mother IS the nightmare.

isn’t abuse great in that it makes you blame yourself?

have you read up on narcissistic traits at all? There’s some great resources at the top of the page. Do you think she’s a narcissist? She’s certainly got the traits E.g. working with the ‘vulnerable’, being grandiose by being able go ‘diagnose’, seeing you as an extension of her.

Yes, do set a boundary and do not confide in her - you already think not telling her is the right thing to do, but are you thinking somehow (because we want abusers to be better) she will become supportive? She won’t.

it’s really good that you are looking out for your nieces and nephews - how old are they?

was your brother the Golden Boy in all of this? What’s her relationship like with her husband?

and I totally get what you mean about how people like your mum presents the perfect image to the outside world. It’s so common. And infuriating. And social media is a GIFT for these people!

xxx

Yes @GreggsVeganSausageRoll i agree with @MonkeyfromManchester your mother does sound like she is high in narcissistic traits. You also sound like you are dealing with it in the best way possible although dealing with it is always very difficult.

I have kids with ASD and I would never dream of treating them the way your mother has. I also suspect my F has ASD too and he is separately quite narcissistic (most people I know with ASD and I know loads are very empathic) do you think your mother might have that personality combination? From experience difficulties with that personality combination where the narcissistic traits combine with the autism traits mean the person is more or less out of reach to any reasoning. Poor theory of mind, a complete absence of empathy, rigid views means they just cannot get another perspective and they are ruthlessly and endlessly self serving.

Greggs

First off, its not you its your mother. A woman not worthy of the term.

The very best to you re your forthcoming autism assessment. Indeed keep all details of that behind your teeth as the French say.

re your comment:
" I have no plans on telling her any of this, but I do want her to stop with her autism obsession. Do you think it's even worth trying to set a boundary with her about it?"

You can try but I do not think it will do you any good. The only people who bother with people as disordered as described are the people who have received the Special Training to put her needs first with your own dead last.

She could well ignore a boundary and or equally actively rail against any boundary you care to set her. I would also think that setting boundaries is difficult for you to do likely because she has trained you not to have any. Your mother likely has an untreated - and untreatable - personality disorder like NPD.

Remaining in contact at all with someone this disordered of thinking will only harm you even more.

Re your comment
"The reason I'm still in touch with her is because I see my nieces and nephews when she has them"

How often does she have them?. Poor souls. Sadly that is no basis to remain in touch with your mother and it goes without saying she is abusing them as well.
I was also going to ask how old they are because they likely have no idea they're being used for narcissistic supply or are being manipulated. These young people are also going to be far more influenced by the people immediately around them and if they are your brother's kids too, she's also turned a blind eye to you being beaten up by him.

I would certainly relocate tens, if not hundred of miles away; both physical and mental distance are needed here. I would also try and shut down your mother's volunteering at your workplace. Have other people commented on your mother's standard of work there?.

Greggsvegan - you sound remarkable ! You’ve put up with all that abuse from your mother , whilst living in the same small town means you can’t escape and havnt to witness people thinking she is great . You are great . You have survived this far and it sounds to me like you have sussed her out totally . I’m pleased you grey stone her and keep setting boundaries. She sounds horrible. Keep looking out for your nieces , they maybe getting abused off her too . How old are you ? Teens 20s 30s 40s ? ie how long have you had to suffer this disgusting abuse off this disgusting woman ?

Hi Attila , as you know , I find your advise to people very helpful , professional ,extremely wise and your very caring . You have helped me immensely… Can I ask you please , as I’ve wondered this a lot in the past with these situations , when you say move away , she may not be able to or want to so my question is , if she stayed in the same town , would it help if she just told people the truth ! Not in detail , but go nc and tell people who ask about her nc , that it’s because ‘she is abusive! She abused me as a child and I’m not putting up with it anymore’ ? Is this ever an option .

@Ydkiml i foolishly live on the same road as my parents. Just my version of how I have dealt with what you are dealing with.

When I was in a place emotionally to deal with people’s reactions I told them that I didn’t speak to my parents because they swept my brother’s abuse of me and my sister (and his abuse of his ex wife) under the rug.

It took me quite some time to reach the point of speaking out because I obviously got a lot of judgement along the way from people who didn’t understand. My parent’s neighbours, for example, were really annoyed with me that I wasn’t supporting my parents during covid. Telling people what was going on (actually my husband told the neighbours which took a lot of the emotion out of it) has been an end to it now. The neighbours are really nice to me now because they understand why I wouldn’t speak to my parents in that context.

Because it has been said and people now know and understand I don’t ever bring it up anymore and neither do they which suits me fine. So it is all pleasant and on nice terms meeting up with people.