November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

Tempting, but there was enough sound advice on bananasindressinggowns other thread to help me out. I’m not going to react. The “gifts” are in the bin, I’m trying to accept the fresh hurt and keep moving forward.

Thank you cuppa, we've spent hours going round in circles trying to wonder what we've done wrong this time which in itself has made me realise this is a pattern. He is a very bitter man with very few friends and we seem to have collective amnesia for every horrible thing he does because he'll then swoop in with a grand gesture and guilt trips.

@Icecreamsmiles - I'm so sorry you went through the same, it's absolutely crap but I'm glad the advice has helped you too. They don't deserve our attention or our time.

Jumping on this thread after a really really agonising few days with my F at my home, which I had invited him to after he had been nice to me during the year and I naively thought he had changed enough to be gracious for Christmas. Oh no, it just gets worse now. After bullying me for all my teen and adult life, he has decided that DD3.5 is old enough now to take his bullying ways, and now includes her in his misogynistic comments about the female sex. I couldn't believe his eyes watching him purposefully irritate my child. I could do nothing but play with her intently, so she wouldn't seek out him to play with and wait for the day public transport was running again when he would leave. I couldn't kick him out because he could lash out and I didn't want to experience that again or subject my daughter to witnessing it. I hope this is a reminder for NEVER AGAIN.

Sooo... Christmas was terrible!

MIL did not lift a finger and I ran around like a servant for 6 days. It just made me feel incredibly sad that as well as having rubbish parents who never did very much parenting beyond the basics, I'll never get love and support from DH's mum either. Not that it's her fault I'm so messed up by my parents.

I sit and fantasise about what it's liked to be mothered and looked after, i am kind of looking forward to getting old and going into a care home tbh

Thanks - I really feel for you after everything I read about what you’ve experienced too. Like your situation, this isn’t a sudden thing for us, but has been building up over the past 20+ years.

Had a lovely Christmas with DH and sweet friends. And, despite starting the process in the busy run up to the holidays, I've found an English-speaking therapist in my country of residence and booked my first appointment for January.

Out of curiosity, have any of you tried EMDR? It's one of the therapies this psychologist offers, as well as the traditional talking therapy.

TW CSA

Hi I hope I can come in on here and ask for a bit of support I have been on and off these threads over a number of years. A friend who I live a good distance away from but is originally from my hometown was telling me that her Mum who is good friends with my own mother was telling her how surprising she finds it that my mother speaks about all her children except me including my bro who sexually abused me and my sister. My friend was trying to explain to her own mum how fucked up that was. I am NC with my family since the abuse came out so I shouldn’t be surprised but it still hurts viscerally to hear my mother erasing me from the family while she still fills in her pals on how her raping paedophile son is getting on in life.

It hurts viscerally.

Hi all,

I got a lot of gifts yesterday from N mother and her boyfriend. It was a lot. A bit too much. Stuff I suppose I should be about very much. But everything hurts.

I have insomnia, migraines, I'm already up.

I just want to chit chat with people on here and make friends. Even though time spent yesterday was drama free, I just couldn't relax or trust my N mother. I am so confused. It hurts.

How have you been doing @Ydkiml , did you watch some good telly recently?

How is everyone else? What did you do these days/what are you doing these days?

thank you @MonkeyfromManchester and @NCcaterpillar and @Sicario for your kind words, and also sharing your experiences. It is hard writing it all down, but having everyone's support on this board means a lot as you all understand what it is like having a toxic family and I don't feel so alone. Previously if I mentioned anything about my toxic family to my friends - they would tend to say "yes but they are your parents - I'm sure they didn't mean it - you know what they are like and no parent is perfect"... effectively minimising or ignoring and I would end up questioning myself and feeling bad about the way I think of my parents and left wondering why I don't have the same loving relationships with parents as they do. Now at least going NC I don't have that! It is quite free-ing!

Monkey - I hope you are enjoying your time away from the Hag and I do hope she is not trying to reel your DH in with her fictitious dramas. I am also sorry to hear that this time of year is hard for you and your DM and of course the last thing you need whilst you grieve your Dad's loss, is the Hag demanding 100% of everyone's attention.

NCcaterpillar - I admire your strength in setting your boundaries and going NC now before you start your own family. You're right - it is very hard. You are absolutely doing the right thing. I think people in normal healthy loving relationships don't understand always that the decision to go NC/LC is not one that someone takes lightly.

@Shelovespawpatrol - you are doing the right thing. When we have children of our own, I think we hope that maybe it will be a trigger for change for the better. However, we are just reminded of the hurt they caused us and that they won't change.

@winningeasy - it is crazy isn't it? Despite getting very limiting attention and parenting during our own childhood, when we are older, we try to go above and beyond for them - and guess what? It is still not good enough - and sadly, never will be. I'm in my 50s, and it has taken me this long to realise that now.

@briarhill - pleased to hear that you have found a therapist. Yes, I have tried EMDR and it is a bit odd and almost like magic - but I would say yes it does work. I do think that giving alternative therapies is worth a go - but as with anything - a lot depends on finding someone who is good.

I have been reading your posts and they give me perspective and shared wisdom, so grateful for this thread and amazing people here!

I have been NC with my DM for 3 months now and it has not been easy. My feelings have been all over the place - from FOG to anger to hurt and back on the same merry-go-round.

Tomorrow is NY and we always had a call to wish her a happy NY with my now grown up children. It was kind of a tradition of ours.

My DH and DD know about NC but my DS doesn't. My DH knowing how guilty I feel suggested that may be I should call her still. I also keep thinking that it might be her last Christmas and NY. And I am steeling myself to do it but dreading it at the same time, waiting for more emotional abuse to come my way as a result. I know deep down that I do not want to call her. But all these "what ifs" - what if she dies alone and the subsequent guilt will eat me alive?

I feel so similar. I haven’t spoken to my mother since October and can’t see that I will for down while. There is a perpetual circle of her being very rude /nasty, then we don’t speak for months. Then it goes back to normal until it all happens again. I’ve begun to wonder if she deliberately does this so she doesn’t have to bother with me. All I feel is relief that I don’t have to do duty visits and usually have some insult delivered during the course of them . I don’t enjoy her company at all, ever. However I am wracked with guilt too. My mother is an elderly widow, and in wonder if she is getting dementia . She could die at any time. It’s impossible to know what to do for the best. I feel sorry for her, but she has hurt me so many times I don’t know how things can ever be positive for either of us.
DD went to see her today. She hasn’t seen DD for two years but could only be bothered to see her for 20 mins before effectively chucking her out in the rain. It really upsets me.

GUILT KLAXON: to everybody who is torturing themselves about feeling guilty.

The guilt has been foisted upon you through conditioning. (Again, look into FOG - fear, obligation and guilt.) It's bloody awful and requires a lot of work to release yourself from those crippling feelings.

If it's of any help, I began to view it as a huge heavy overcoat that didn't belong to me. I had every right to take it off. I refused to be shamed for standing up for myself and saying NO MORE ABUSE.

By valuing myself, and valuing my own precious time, I decided that I would not put myself through that shit any more. I would dread having to spend time with my mother, and navigating the endless toxic crap from my sister and BIL.

I made my own loving family unit, me DH and the kids, and I have wonderful friends.

My toxic family brought me nothing but heartache. The guilt was awful when I went NC, but I learned to live with it, then worked through it, and now I don't feel one single iota of guilt. I was not responsible for their behaviours and that overcoat of shame never belonged to me. I burned it long ago.

If it's of any help, I began to view it as a huge heavy overcoat that didn't belong to me. I had every right to take it off. I refused to be shamed for standing up for myself and saying NO MORE ABUSE.

That is a great analogy @Sicario I got gaslit with in an inch of my life from my family trying to lump their failings onto me. I just could not be doing with it anymore. The damage this stuff does is enormous and you are so right the crippling emotions are awful. Many of the emotions are caused by distortions they use on you to distract from their own behaviour. Definitely, definitely take off the overcoat.

@Stickytoff I’m so sorry to hear of your experiences. Nothing NOTHING surprises me about dysfunctional families anymore. They can’t take any criticism or responsibility such is their dysfunction.

@Walnutwhipsarenothesame hugs to you. It sounds like your mum is transferring her anger to your daughter which doubles the hurt. Awful.

@neverhaveto the overcoat of guilt analogy from @Sicario is really helpful. I stepped away from my MIL and I feel no guilt. Ultimately the abusers are the ones who should feel guilty, not us. but I appreciate it’s a long road out of feeling guilty and responsible.

@MyFragility this board is amazing. It is very freeing to be completely open here and not have people taken a back by us being honest about our families. Mr Monkey for many years held it all in, but now is far more honest about all the dysfunction in his family - his hag of a mother and his screwed up brothers. I think without that it would all continue to be internalised and ‘his guilty secret’.

and thank you regarding my dad. I was laughing with my BF about what my dad would have made of my toxic MIL. Short shrift at her martyrdom, I imagine. My dad lived very much for the moment.

Hag hasn’t behaved the way I predicted. So far, no screaming phone calls, illnesses or needs which can be sorted by Slave Son back in Manchester whilst we luxuriate at Mummy Monkeys amongst red wine and cheese.

MM had the attempt at guilt trip yesterday. He phoned her as we were laying the lunch table for three of my mum’s friends (92, 86, 81).

‘What are you doing?’

’laying the table as Monkey’s mum is having some friends round’

’who?’

’some of the older ladies she knows including the disabled lady that she does the shopping for.’

’i’m a disabled old lady’ - she does this with this horrible passive aggressive laugh she has. She knows screaming about this wouldn’t be appropriate so passive aggressive mode it is. Ever the mistress of tactics.

’anyway, got to go. Bye.’

Mr Monkey laughs. He no longer feels guilt tripped.

The (obvious) reason my mum does this annual lunch and very competitive quiz (!) for her friends is that they are lovely to be around. Good fun, graceful, happy, just getting on with life despite getting more infirm.

The Hag would not be a good fit. She’s now not welcome in my mum’s house which says a lot as my mum is generous to a fault.

My Xmas plan has worked out. It’s three days to we go home and we are having a good time after years of Hag ruining it.

I’m going to get the Xmas announcement for 2023 sorted out early in the new year. Meal on Xmas Day in a (cheap) pub. Ta da. This way the Hag can’t make it into a huge attention seeking drama from September to December. This way she isn’t in my house at all. RESULT.

@Walnutwhipsarenothesame thank you for your reply!
And so sorry to hear about your DD's treatment by your DM! I used to dread my DM interactions with my DD and her poisonous tongue!

@Sicario - thank you and what a brilliant metaphor with the coat! I am exhausted of carrying it on and yes, wasting my time and energy on pointless upsetting conversations and loaded silences.

@MyFragility , thanks so much for your feedback on EMDR!

@neverhaveto , we've all been there with the guilt. I agree with @Sicario that it is a huge overcoat of FOG we've all been burdened with and we need to take it off and burn it. The guilt has been programmed into us and it can get worse when our toxic parents age and become infirm.

I was feeling the same guilt as you, @neverhaveto, but my body pre-empted me and I came down with a bad cold this week, which absolved me from making any family phone calls because I literally couldn't talk! I actually lost my voice for a few days. This is the kind of psychosomatic stress of trauma stored in the body.

But we shouldn't have to get ill to claim our boundaries.

If you feel a loud inner NO at the thought of speaking to family members, honour that and don't be guilt-tripped into ignoring your inner warning system.

Great metaphor re the overcoat by Sicario.

That overcoat of shame never belonged to me either. We have every right to live our lives free from being abused in any way, shape or form. We are absolutely worth it.

@MonkeyfromManchester thank you and congratulations on getting a nice Christmas for yourselves!
I have a long road to go to achieve a peace of mind as well as although we are heaving a nice festive period with my immediate family and away from my DM I still have thoughts swirling in my head.
This thread is helping enormously and I hope to be free one day!

@briarhill sorry to hear you’re ill. It probably is related to how you feel about it all. I feel run down but at least I’m run down here rather than dealing with The Hag.

@neverhaveto it’s really a journey. I didn’t really have to deal with the MIL aka The Hag in close proximity until three years ago when she was ill, staying with us (aaaagh) and off the scale vile. It really damaged my mental health (I have bipolar), but from that point on with a TON of support here I took control and empowered Mr Monkey to get boundaries.

This forum helps immeasurably.

You will get freer as more and more things click into place and you find the strategy that works for you. Tons of support for you here. Xxx

@MonkeyfromManchester , thank you! Have a lovely, hag-free time with your mother!!

@briarhill thank you. Get well soon! Xxx

Does anyone mind if I join? been lurking for ages and now feel inspired to reach out for help/perspectives.

My 'hag' (made me smile Monkey!) is my step mum. She's been in my life for over 30 years and it wasn't until recent events I really realised just how much she has resented my existence.

I come from a very dysfunctional family. Looking back my DM had mental health issues steming from childhood abuse that were never addressed. A bitter divorce, infidelity by most of my family with various parties over the years and subsequent marriages has made for a very toxic and combative environment. The stately home tag to this thread really resonates with me because it is exactly that kind of thinking that concealed a lot of horrible emotional abuse.

Only now, having had children of my own and being a step mum myself, do I really see how painful and dysfunctional it really was. My DM has passed and I'm left with my DF and SM. I'm going to take a leaf out of Monkey's book and give her a nickname, feels like it will make it easier to write about her. Hence forth she will be known as 'the Gob' or 'Gobby' 😃

Gobby is a very insecure individual who throughout my childhood sought out opportunities to 'put me in my place'. This basically was played out by verbal tirades at my dad in front of me if he was kind to me or very deliberate attempts to airbrush me out. She presents as very religious now but has a very chequered past. She is the kind of person who will be rude/childlike/tantrum/aggressive and say things like 'I say it how it is because I'm from the North' but if you push back or challenge it in the same manner you're being mean.

The epiphany came when just before Christmas my DS (9) told her to stop making such a fuss, this was when she launched into a horrible rant about how she was more important that me, how wife comes first, not daughter, on and on. I have to add this rant was over a board game and my dad passing a piece in the wrong direction. My son speaking up made me see the whole situation with fresh eyes and see very clearly how much she resented me. She's done this behaviour so often since I was a kid, I think I've become blind to it. There's so many incidents over the years, so I won't bore you with it all.

I have so much anger towards her and the damage she has done, but I can't articulate it. I'm right back to being that 13 year old kid with no voice stuck in the middle of a war zone. Why do I become paralysed? I'm angry at my dad for having an affair with the Gob and bringing her into our lives with her bat shittery behaviour. I'm angry he doesn't challenge it.

Sorry for rambling its hard to get 30+ years in a first post. I am battling that voice in my head that says it wasn't that bad, what's the point in rocking the boat now when they're old, but I have so much anger inside me.

Hi all, Happy New Years Eve/ New Year.

Just wondering if anyone else self doubts or finds this time of year particularly hard? I'm struggling with it and hoping it'll pass with time. I think I'm struggling most missing my gran who is a massive flying monke for dm. I keep thinking I should phone or message her but I know she'll just be really awful to me because I'm nc with my mum. My husband keeps reminding me that she can work a phone and is quite capable of calling me (the last time we spoke it was because she wanted to know if "I'd wrote dm off" and she was pushing me to apologise and make up - I havent). She's old and I know that shouldn't be a factor but I want to do the right thing. Both dgm and dm have used guilt trips znd threats of suicide, old age, health alot.