Page 5 | Most disappointing ‘proposal’ in history of mankind

Christoncrutches · 2022-10-13T18:38:34+00:00

DP mentioned in unusually intense argument - caused by build up of frustration over lack of intimacy due to anti-depression medication (his) - that he was particularly upset at me expressing unhappiness as he was seriously considering proposing this Christmas. We’ve been together for over a decade, successfully co-parent DCs, and the decline in sex life not due to ‘us’ - we actually have a generally lovely relationship, but it’s been made worse by life shite - new house, illness, menopause blahblah… It took ages to get my final divorce decree, so we just cracked on without getting married, and it never really made a massive difference to me BUT I did always imagine it would happen, and that as he knows exH was a massive let down in such things, and that I never really got properly proposed to, that it would be a nice, romantic moment. The way he worded this made it sound like he’s perhaps been planning this for a while and that he’d looked at rings already. He then said he’d actually prefer I find one I like myself as he knows I have specific taste (I do, to be fair). Wanting to make up after the argument, and move on in a positive way, I agreed to look and give him a steer, but to be honest, it was disappointing that any element of surprise was gone. So a few days later, I had a look but realised it was a tad pointless as I don’t know what his budget is - I reckoned it wouldn’t be massive as we have stuff to do around house and life it so feckin expensive these days, so rather than the traditional three months salary gubbins, which would have £10k-ish, I bookmarked a few between £1-2k. Tonight I mentioned I’d had a look and that I need to know roughly what the budget is. He told me a story about a conversation with his friend about his wedding band costing £45. With a sinking feeling I asked how that relates to this, and he said he hadn’t any idea about how much an engagement ring costs and the difference between the two types of rings, getting angry with me for ‘making him feel like a disappointment’. It descended into an argument and I walked away deflated as fuck, feeling unworthy of even a google to find out what an engagement ring is and how much it might cost (he’s in his forties for fucks sake, how can this be the first he’s hearing that you might have to budget before a proposal). No idea where we go from here?!

deathofthesnark · 14/10/2022 05:54

HeebieJeebies7 · 13/10/2022 19:48

Hello OP , I am sorry to hear that your partner has let you down on this but if he is on anti depressants is it not fair to let this rest for a while till he gets better. I think you guys can talk about the ring calmly after you have both cooled off ....... every woman dreams about a romantic proposal and some actually get their ideal proposal but is it really that important to stress yourself out as well as your partner over this social precedent ? He will get you a good ring, I think that comment was there just to let you know in a subtle way he can't spend alot on the ring ...... your relationship sounds stronger and bigger then this .......

not every woman dreams about a romantic proposal

Fixed that for you

RebeccaCloud9 · 14/10/2022 06:08

It doesn't need to be a big flashy song and dance to be meaningful or to make you feel wanted, or to feel genuine. My DH proposed on the spur of the moment, at home, with our dc there. Just asked and it felt right. He got down on one knee and we all hugged and that was it. We went ring shopping together - we chose together and had a lovely couple of days out looking.

So your DH could easily have made you feel good about the whole thing without it being an ott proposal. Instead, he had made you feel rejected once again.

PhilomenaPringle · 14/10/2022 06:12

Oh, and not every woman dreams of a romantic proposal, that's a myth.
I've been happily married for many years. We discussed getting married, so we did

This

AnApparitionQuipped · 14/10/2022 06:43

ParsleyTL · 13/10/2022 20:33

Bollocks. You show me a woman in the UK who’s thrilled with a £45 engagement ring and I’ll show you a fine actress.

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I forgot, this is planet Mumsnet where everyone has a DP on a six figure salary ... back in the real world, we don't all have a fortune to spend on jewellery.😂

Ameadowwalk · 14/10/2022 07:08

I think mid-life is stressful and particularly so at the moment. But thinking about marriage pragmatically and practically and not getting swept away by the romance is not a bad thing. Your discussion evolved in a legal context and I think that is important because marriage is a legal contract. It has implications for each of you and for your children.

warofthemonstertrucks · 14/10/2022 07:15

I think you are getting a tough time here op.
PP are right. Not EVERYONE wants a fancy proposal and a big ring. And that's fine. But some people do, and that's also fine.
Second time arounders, to me, are doing something even more worth celebrating. They have (usually) been through the hell of losing someone in whatever way, and/or a divorce (which 9 times out of ten is a horrid experience) and yet they have found someone they love so much they still want to get married, with all the emotional risk they know that that entails. I'm one such person and I consider it miraculous that DP and I finally found each other and fell in love under those circumstances. I'm hoping we will make each other happy in the way we both deserve to be after going through such shit times, and that's something well worth celebrating. My proposal was quiet but romantic and thoughtful. And I'm not shamed to say my ring is massive and despite being the least Blingy person in the world, I love the bloody thing, and I'm not going to apologise for it.

So to me you are well within your rights to feel a bit disappointed and want, if not cash thrown at it, at least some thought.

Your best bet is to talk calmly to your man there. Tell him you really want to be married to him, but the non proposal made you a bit sad and you just want to check in and make sure he wants to get married and that you are on the same page. If that's a go, then arrange to pull the whole thing round with a nice trip to pick the ring and a bit of nice lunch somewhere-make a nice day of it where it's just you two and you have a bit of fun. Come at it from a place of love and wanting to celebrate the two of you and the life you have together rather than telling him you are fed up and he's messed up.

I'm sure that the marriage rather than the proposal or wedding is the most important bit to you (as it is to me), but it's also ok to want to a bit of niceness and thought to go in to it all.

warofthemonstertrucks · 14/10/2022 07:20

Ah idiot me. Always read the thread before posting. I now see the update and all is well-good for you OP

Aprilx · 14/10/2022 07:23

As some others have said, I am not convinced he was planning a proposal at all. It feels like he used it as a stick against you, be a good girl and you might get a proposal type of thing.

But that aside, no every woman does not dream of a romantic proposal. I didn’t, we discussed it and planned a marriage. We were 30 and 34 and neither of us had been married or engaged before and I still didn’t need a romantic proposal! We discussed getting married and made plans.

We also shopped for the ring together, I would have been annoyed if he had bought it without me as it is me that will wear it for the rest of my life, I want a say. I don’t remember how we came up with a ballpark figure, but I would have had an idea about his earnings and his savings and would have been mindful. In the event he over stretched and some time later I found he had a credit card debt that he was not shifting. I immediately paid the debt off and told him that we need to share finances and we have done ever since (nearly 20 years).

Anyway what to do next. Well I would give this “proposal” no more thought, it sounds like the relationship needs some work. I would do that first and if successful, then perhaps discuss marriage as equals and forget about the Disney proposal.

BloodAndFire · 14/10/2022 08:05

Christoncrutches · 13/10/2022 23:57

Thanks for all the various perspectives - well maybe not the bizarrely judgemental ones, but it’s good to get different viewpoints. The whole proposal thang does seem to separate people, and horses for courses etc, but I agree with the snobbery comment - there’s an air of superiority in the ‘I’m above all that’ comments. As many people pointed did understand - this was never about money - it was the lack of effort, understanding and sensitivity that left me feeling disappointed.

For context the initial argument was about me feeling a bit vulnerable about the intimacy issue (which is totally medical but it’s tricky nonetheless) which led to us talking about our legal situation. I had been worrying about that, as my children are from my first marriage - if we ever separated, or I died, I’d want to make sure they’re taken care of financially. He got upset, saying I wasn’t the only one worrying about that, and as an illustration of his seriousness and commitment, he told me he was actually planning to propose at Christmas.

Anyway, we’ve cleared the air - we’re better than this, and that was what was so upsetting - despite recent challenges, we’ve always communicated really openly, and worked through any differences. It should never have been mentioned in a heated discussion, and he apologised for that. He said he’s worried I’m resigned to the conclusion that it can now never be a meaningful or romantic thing. It definitely did leave me feeling deflated and disappointed in his lack of consideration (again not the money - the sentiment!), but I’ve never been one of those women who invest loads in the idea of grand gestures, fancy weddings blahdeblah. Just something personal to US and our relationship- whether that be a proposal, a mutual decision, whatever.

I’ll still never understand how he could get to his age and not understand the difference between an engagement and a wedding ring - he’s been a best man for fucks sake - and I feel neither of us is really our ‘best selves’ at the moment - everything seems harder at the minute for everyone - cost if living, scary political landscape, saving for kids going to uni - middle age is stressful!

He now wants to reassure me by immediately looking for rings together asap, but I’d rather leave it until the dust settles, and we’re both more relaxed about it so we can actually enjoy and appreciate it’s meaning. Although it was initially discussed in a legal context, followed by a disappointing argument, really we’re just both pissed off it hasn’t unfolded in a way that represents a very happy 11 years together.

Hang on. So the children you 'successfully co parent' are not even his?

You're upset because he wasn't planning to spend hundreds of pounds on a ring in order to show his legal commitment to financially supporting someone else's children?

I agree, this isn't about Instagram, is it? It's just blatant materialism. A woman in your dp's situation would be advised to think very very carefully about being financially exploited.

Lovegossip · 14/10/2022 08:28

I don't know if you would consider buying your own wedding ring? My DH and I did this as we were looking for budget friendly rings and we found them and both of us decided on what we would like, the rings are not a matching set though and that's OK

IncompleteSenten · 14/10/2022 08:46

Do you think he was actually planning to propose?

I may just be really cynical but I wonder if he said it during the argument as a way to get to you? I was going to propose but you're just too mean. And that's why he's not any idea of budget, hasn't thought about anything, doesn't seem interested in it etc. Because it was point scoring in an argument or an attempt to make you feel you have to change if you want him to propose?

BloodAndFire · 14/10/2022 09:01

Just checking did everyone else also miss that these are her children, not his, that there's no suggestion that their father is dead, and that she wants to get married to ensure that this man - not their father - will be legally and financially responsible for them?

I'm not surprised he's unsure. I would be too.

Original poster

Christoncrutches · 14/10/2022 09:10

BloodAndFire · 14/10/2022 08:05

Hang on. So the children you 'successfully co parent' are not even his?

You're upset because he wasn't planning to spend hundreds of pounds on a ring in order to show his legal commitment to financially supporting someone else's children?

I agree, this isn't about Instagram, is it? It's just blatant materialism. A woman in your dp's situation would be advised to think very very carefully about being financially exploited.

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Aren’t you a nasty piece of work! He isn’t their biological father, but he is their dad. We financially support them together, have done for 11 years and we both want them to inherit everything we’ve invested in together when we die.

No doubt you’ve made up your mind I’m a craven instagram-loving witch because ohmygod I wanted a nice moment and a bit of thought when discussing/deciding to get married, but like I said before, that speaks volumes about you.

OP posts:

leilani83 · 14/10/2022 09:13

I find the idea of a 40+ princess waiting for a perfect proposal, thinking a £10k ring is 'traditional' and needing a £1-2k ring to celebrate her femininity really, really tragic. And asking what 'the budget' is for an engagement ring is incredibly tacky and materialistic despite the OP's denials. I can't imagine a world in which I would want to spend £1-2k on a ring and then throwing a hissy fit for not getting one. Bonkers.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 14/10/2022 09:14

Liorae · 13/10/2022 21:00

and people DO ask how he proposed they just do.
I can honestly say that in the 30 years since I got engaged and 29 years of marriage no one has ever asked me about a proposal, nor have I asked anyone else about a proposal.

Yep. What’s more, if anyone did ask , I’d just say I couldn’t remember, or change the subject, because that sort of thing is between us.

BloodAndFire · 14/10/2022 09:25

Christoncrutches · 14/10/2022 09:10

Aren’t you a nasty piece of work! He isn’t their biological father, but he is their dad. We financially support them together, have done for 11 years and we both want them to inherit everything we’ve invested in together when we die.

No doubt you’ve made up your mind I’m a craven instagram-loving witch because ohmygod I wanted a nice moment and a bit of thought when discussing/deciding to get married, but like I said before, that speaks volumes about you.

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No. You want them to inherit everything. I think his actions speak louder than words. You want to legally force him to leave all of his money to your children. He clearly isn't at all comfortable with this. And why should he be?

Like I said in the post you quoted... I don't think this is about social media at all. I think it's all about money.

warofthemonstertrucks · 14/10/2022 09:28

I can't understand how you got that impression at all Bloodandfire...

But even if op was thinking about finances to some degree that's surely sensible, no?

BloodAndFire · 14/10/2022 09:32

Watchthesunrise · 14/10/2022 02:27

I don't want my husband to treat me like I'm one of his mates. Like a genderless box. I'm his woman, his Queen, a powerful feminine force. Why would I accept treatment that values me as less?

How much does a 'powerful feminine force' cost these days? Is it four or five figures? I don't sell my 'powerful femininity' for £££ ... I think there's a word for that.

warofthemonstertrucks · 14/10/2022 09:37

And actually all this 'they're your kids not his'... Jesus. They've been together 11 years living as a family. Without wanting to open the step parent can of worms, sometimes step parent (figures if not married, but to all intents and purposes) do just see the children as being their family and so are capable of planning for them later in life and in terms of wills etc, just as you would with 'biological' children. I am, again, one such person, as is my Dp. Two of our kids are his and two are mine by birth, but we are a family and we live as such and plan for the future, and even after we've died as such. I get that that's not how everyone does it but it does happen. No one is exploiting anyone- we made the choice to be a family and thats that.
We are getting married which aside from the fact we want to be married means that financially we will be protected (me more than him for what it's worth as he earns more-but that's no guarantee-he could get sick or lose his job or whatever else).

BloodAndFire · 14/10/2022 09:38

warofthemonstertrucks · 14/10/2022 09:28

I can't understand how you got that impression at all Bloodandfire...

But even if op was thinking about finances to some degree that's surely sensible, no?

I quoted the posts that gave me that impression.

If you read through all the op's posts you'll see that they are not his children but her ex-husband's (which she didn't say in the first post)

She then says later that her reason for wanting to get married is to ensure that he will financially support her children if something happens to her.

She wants to legally enforce him leaving everything to her children.

As many others have pointed out, it sounds like he doesn't want to get married and is using various excuses/strategies to avoid it.

Money is clearly extremely important to her. She is focused on the value of the engagement ring, and legally making him leave his money and assets to her children.

Why should he? I wouldn't leave all of mine to the children of two other living parents.

In fact many, many second-time-round couples choose not to get married for exactly this reason - to protect their own children's inheritance.

I'm sure it's very 'sensible' of her to try to get his money for her children. Is it sensible for him though? What would you advise your brother/friend to do in this situation?

warofthemonstertrucks · 14/10/2022 09:43

If advise them that if they are choosing to be a long term Parental figure to some children and partner to a woman then the decent thing to to do is lean in to that and treat those children as their own in every way possible and that includes financially as that's the right thing to do.
And if they don't want to do that don't get into it in the first place?

Original poster

Christoncrutches · 14/10/2022 09:45

warofthemonstertrucks · 14/10/2022 09:28

I can't understand how you got that impression at all Bloodandfire...

But even if op was thinking about finances to some degree that's surely sensible, no?

and now I’m a whore according to her last post. She’s the one obsessed with money, clearly, and can’t imagine why a man who has supported his step children emotionally and financially (as have aim obvs!) for most of their lives would want them to inherit when he dies.

What a cold world she must live in, despite her moniker.

OP posts:

Deadringer · 14/10/2022 09:54

I think you should both grow up a bit. Just have an adult conversation and decide together to get married, and sort out the details like where when and how much between you. You aren't teenagers for goodness sake.

Original poster

Christoncrutches · 14/10/2022 10:04

warofthemonstertrucks · 14/10/2022 09:37

And actually all this 'they're your kids not his'... Jesus. They've been together 11 years living as a family. Without wanting to open the step parent can of worms, sometimes step parent (figures if not married, but to all intents and purposes) do just see the children as being their family and so are capable of planning for them later in life and in terms of wills etc, just as you would with 'biological' children. I am, again, one such person, as is my Dp. Two of our kids are his and two are mine by birth, but we are a family and we live as such and plan for the future, and even after we've died as such. I get that that's not how everyone does it but it does happen. No one is exploiting anyone- we made the choice to be a family and thats that.
We are getting married which aside from the fact we want to be married means that financially we will be protected (me more than him for what it's worth as he earns more-but that's no guarantee-he could get sick or lose his job or whatever else).

Exactly this. We don’t even think about them not being biologically his - he taught them to ride bikes, has been there for them at all the landmark moments etc. He’s their dad so it didn’t need to be pointed out i the first post. The legal stuff is just details - but on a practical level we both agree. Everything we have, we’ve bought together but my name couldn’t go on the deeds as I was a year over the threshold for the mortgage. Being married protects that for me and our kids in a legal framework.

The main point is though, we both love each other and have always wanted to get married, and also want it to celebrate our relationship, rather than the cold stuff.

Anyway, congratulations to you!!

OP posts:

BloodAndFire · 14/10/2022 10:17

warofthemonstertrucks · 14/10/2022 09:37

And actually all this 'they're your kids not his'... Jesus. They've been together 11 years living as a family. Without wanting to open the step parent can of worms, sometimes step parent (figures if not married, but to all intents and purposes) do just see the children as being their family and so are capable of planning for them later in life and in terms of wills etc, just as you would with 'biological' children. I am, again, one such person, as is my Dp. Two of our kids are his and two are mine by birth, but we are a family and we live as such and plan for the future, and even after we've died as such. I get that that's not how everyone does it but it does happen. No one is exploiting anyone- we made the choice to be a family and thats that.
We are getting married which aside from the fact we want to be married means that financially we will be protected (me more than him for what it's worth as he earns more-but that's no guarantee-he could get sick or lose his job or whatever else).

Your situation is completely different because it's equal . You have two children, he has two children, together you have four children, and you're each biological parent to two of them.

Many, many posters have pointed out that the op's partner seems unwilling and unhappy about getting married and seems to be finding excuses not to do it.

This seems at the very least a plausible reason why he might be hesitant.

Irl many couples I know in similar situations choose not to get married for exactly this reason.

Op has everything to gain from this arrangement and her partner has nothing at all to gain. It's his house, she's not even on the deeds. And her children. It's a decision that benefits her 100% and him 0%. I don't think it's that mysterious that he's doing everything he can to avoid it.