Most disappointing ‘proposal’ in history of mankind

[Christoncrutches]

DP mentioned in unusually intense argument - caused by build up of frustration over lack of intimacy due to anti-depression medication (his) - that he was particularly upset at me expressing unhappiness as he was seriously considering proposing this Christmas. We’ve been together for over a decade, successfully co-parent DCs, and the decline in sex life not due to ‘us’ - we actually have a generally lovely relationship, but it’s been made worse by life shite - new house, illness, menopause blahblah… It took ages to get my final divorce decree, so we just cracked on without getting married, and it never really made a massive difference to me BUT I did always imagine it would happen, and that as he knows exH was a massive let down in such things, and that I never really got properly proposed to, that it would be a nice, romantic moment.

The way he worded this made it sound like he’s perhaps been planning this for a while and that he’d looked at rings already. He then said he’d actually prefer I find one I like myself as he knows I have specific taste (I do, to be fair). Wanting to make up after the argument, and move on in a positive way, I agreed to look and give him a steer, but to be honest, it was disappointing that any element of surprise was gone.

So a few days later, I had a look but realised it was a tad pointless as I don’t know what his budget is - I reckoned it wouldn’t be massive as we have stuff to do around house and life it so feckin expensive these days, so rather than the traditional three months salary gubbins, which would have £10k-ish, I bookmarked a few between £1-2k. Tonight I mentioned I’d had a look and that I need to know roughly what the budget is. He told me a story about a conversation with his friend about his wedding band costing £45. With a sinking feeling I asked how that relates to this, and he said he hadn’t any idea about how much an engagement ring costs and the difference between the two types of rings, getting angry with me for ‘making him feel like a disappointment’. It descended into an argument and I walked away deflated as fuck, feeling unworthy of even a google to find out what an engagement ring is and how much it might cost (he’s in his forties for fucks sake, how can this be the first he’s hearing that you might have to budget before a proposal).

No idea where we go from here?!

So you are not allowed to express unhappiness because he was thinking of proposing? That’s a novel way to turn around an argument and deflect from the original point you wanted to discuss! Did you actually resolve the issue about the lack of intimacy? Or did you get fobbed off by the almost proposal carrot he was dangling to change the focus away from that?

Good grief OP, what kind of batnip did you put in this thread? They're flying over 😮

I'm so sorry but for some reason he's using it all to punish you. The throwaway "I was.." is very telling. Very past tense. The whole you are not worthy of a decent ring. I bet he pays more for sky sports a month than the price of a simple wedding band. No wonder you feel delated. Leave it all and see how you feel in a couple of months. His meds might work better, they might need tweaking or you might see other things that aren't right, and this might be a blessing in disguise.

I had one who would go 'I'll marry you if...'

This is similar @Christoncrutches . It's manipulative, or just punitive.

and people DO ask how he proposed they just do.
I can honestly say that in the 30 years since I got engaged and 29 years of marriage no one has ever asked me about a proposal, nor have I asked anyone else about a proposal.

A £45 ring would not bother me at all but I’d want to feel like he had put thought into it and wanted to propose - it almost feels like he’s doing it because he feels he has to, rather than wants to.

Honestly, you are both adults and have been together a long time.

I do not think anything he’d do is going to meet your expectations as you both have different ideas of what is romantic.

Therefore, I’d just go out and buy a ring together and forget about the big proposal.

If you want him to be more romantic more often then tell him what sort of things you want but I think a romantic proposal is going to be too much and you’ll end up just feeling like crap over it.

"I guarantee any woman, materialistic or not, would be disappointed if the response was a story about a £45 ring."

Not this one. My wedding ring cost about 65 euros and it's perfect and I love it. Obviously that's just me and not you, but please don't project things onto other women that aren't true.

You already have a life together, a commitment, and are living in what the Home Office would call "a marriage-like arrangement". Your having been very unhappy with a major aspect of the relationship for two years, and his apparently not realising, is a big problem whether or not he had been thinking about proposing. It sounds like he completely failed to address that, and changed the subject in a way that, as PPs have said, seems a little bit manipulative.

I also wondered if that response was a way of almost chiding you, making you feel guilty for speaking up about your dissatisfaction, when he should have tackled it head on and not brought the marriage/proposal issue into it. Getting engaged or married won't solve the problem, so why even say it? The problem exists, it's not going to help for you NOT to say it.

He's the one that brought up marriage, proposing, a ring. He obviously wasn't ready to talk about, or act on, any of it. And his saying you make him feel like "a dissapointment" seems like more of the same: He's upset that you said you were unhappy with the lack of intimacy, he's upset that you asked him questions he couldn't answer. WHen do you get to be upset, and express that you;re upset? He doesn't seem to want, or know how to, discuss the real issues and hammer out a compromise solution.

You're right. He sees what you want (a proposal) as something he makes the decision about

Most disappointing is any where a woman has accepted it, knowing the previous awful behaviour or worse of the man concerned. Sad that their self-esteem has or had got so low as to accept.

I'm sure we can all think of examples.

Well if you buy into this ridiculous sexist nonsense of passively expecting a man to propose even when you've been living together for years and have children together then yes, you are putting the decision in his hands.

I’ve learnt from experience, OP, that if he’s disappointing you now it won’t get better.

I’d walk. I wish I had.

Absolutely! 100% this

YANBU to feel deflated about this "proposal". You can be deflated about it, and also not want / expect a down on one knee, 12 million red roses romantic shit. You can be deflated about it while also understanding it's the marriage that's important.

Agree with PP that said its because its surrounded with negativity.

I genuinely do believe he was planning it, but whether that plan was a 30 second thought in his head or actually something he had planned who knows. I hope you figure out what you want and get your happy ending from all of this

My DH enjoyed proposing to me! Someone you love asking to marry you isn’t all “bleurgh” and anti feminist. It would have been nice any way he did - people aren’t “less than” or in any way inferior for having a nice experience in deciding their future together.

Agree. The amount of posters falling over themselves to be a “pick me” and declare they’d be happy with an Argos special offer is depressing. OP is clearly not happy with low effort/thought option and I don’t blame her.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a bit of effort from a partner and there is certainly nothing wrong with wanting the man you’ve birthed a child for to spend more than £45 on a ring for you.

I think people are allowed to have their own opinions on whether or not they wanted extravagant proposals or expensive rings, each to their own. Who's to say anyone is wrong for wanting / not wanting or expecting either. Let's try be a little less judgemental and sanctimonious about the opposing opinion.

I personally think it's his behaviour around 'I was going to...' amid an argument when OP was trying to discuss something important to her and then the arguments following that is the red flag here, not the price of the ring or how he was going to pop the question.

I think people are being cruel to the OP.

Yes, of course, it must be lovely to be so swept away - or so securely happy - that you don't feel in the least upset your partner didn't propose with a nice ring (or whatever is the conventional display of love where you are). There's a certain snob value attached to this, isn't there?' 'Goodness, I loved DP so much I didn't notice he'd fashioned a ring out of dog-poo bags during our morning walk down the local canal, because I was just so in love and it was so spontaneous!'

But the OP makes the points that she's actually had quite a rough time with her DP, for reasons that don't stop them wanting to be married but have taken a toll on them. And she makes the point that her ex-husband was a 'let down' (whatever that means). I think it's fairly clear she is talking about wounds that need to heal, not about silly or immature desire for a ring in and of itself. She is sad her partner doesn't know her well enough to understand how she feels. It's not about the cost or the ring, it's about the fact she had been seeing this as a symbolic means of closing off previous traumas, and he isn't on the same page - and she doesn't know what that means for them.

As an aside, do you think your boyfriend actually wants to marry you? If he hasn't by now I doubt he will ever propose and you acting disappointed in him is the perfect way out for your boyfriend.

I understand, OP.

You don’t seem like hard work at all for expecting him to use a bit of initiative and wanting to feel more special than a £45 ring.

And I have mental health issues so I’m not being dismissive of his depression. To get to your 40s and not have a basic idea about engagement rings and to get 10+ years into a relationship without an idea of what your OH might like from a proposal is bizarre.

Agree. I've never understood the point of those stagey proposals. Especially when people have children and have lived together for years. AND when the guy has to be goaded and stage-managed into it. Bit of an anticlimax to say the least.

Thanks for all the various perspectives - well maybe not the bizarrely judgemental ones, but it’s good to get different viewpoints. The whole proposal thang does seem to separate people, and horses for courses etc, but I agree with the snobbery comment - there’s an air of superiority in the ‘I’m above all that’ comments. As many people pointed did understand - this was never about money - it was the lack of effort, understanding and sensitivity that left me feeling disappointed.

For context the initial argument was about me feeling a bit vulnerable about the intimacy issue (which is totally medical but it’s tricky nonetheless) which led to us talking about our legal situation. I had been worrying about that, as my children are from my first marriage - if we ever separated, or I died, I’d want to make sure they’re taken care of financially. He got upset, saying I wasn’t the only one worrying about that, and as an illustration of his seriousness and commitment, he told me he was actually planning to propose at Christmas.

Anyway, we’ve cleared the air - we’re better than this, and that was what was so upsetting - despite recent challenges, we’ve always communicated really openly, and worked through any differences. It should never have been mentioned in a heated discussion, and he apologised for that. He said he’s worried I’m resigned to the conclusion that it can now never be a meaningful or romantic thing. It definitely did leave me feeling deflated and disappointed in his lack of consideration (again not the money - the sentiment!), but I’ve never been one of those women who invest loads in the idea of grand gestures, fancy weddings blahdeblah. Just something personal to US and our relationship- whether that be a proposal, a mutual decision, whatever.

I’ll still never understand how he could get to his age and not understand the difference between an engagement and a wedding ring - he’s been a best man for fucks sake - and I feel neither of us is really our ‘best selves’ at the moment - everything seems harder at the minute for everyone - cost if living, scary political landscape, saving for kids going to uni - middle age is stressful!

He now wants to reassure me by immediately looking for rings together asap, but I’d rather leave it until the dust settles, and we’re both more relaxed about it so we can actually enjoy and appreciate it’s meaning. Although it was initially discussed in a legal context, followed by a disappointing argument, really we’re just both pissed off it hasn’t unfolded in a way that represents a very happy 11 years together.

I was just about to say you should focus on clearing the air and I am pleased to see you have.

I actually think whilst it’s still relevant you should give him some ideas of what you like ring wise and how important the surprise is to you and then just let the dust settle and move on and have a breather from it all.

Oh dear oh dear...

Good to hear you guys have made up ! Best of luck with everything ❤

@BatshitCrazyWoman and @MalagaNights thank you for looking beyond the reactive, competitive bollocks and understanding my feelings - your supportive messages made me feel less of a loon and helped me explain myself more clearly to DP.