Are those type of money chats strange?

[Furla22]

Please be gentle. I am a late 40s childless woman in a relationship with a man in his early 60s, he has adult children and young grandchildren. He has his property and planning to retire soon. I am happy in my job and work partly abroad. Due to my family arrangements (long story) I bought a large apartment cash and will be soon renovating. I also have other properties. We are not married. DP would like to get married. I don't. My DP is not happy that we keep our finances separate apart from household expenses. He often asks what my plans are with my other properties etc. We live together in a rental - (long story) it is due to work distance and convenience, all outcomes of covid. The apartment I bought I will be refurbishing from my own and my family money, it is in my name only. He wants to contribute to refurbishing (despite not planning to live there). DP also wants us to get back to his house. I don't, because it is his ex marital home, not much has changed there since his divorce over nearly 18 years . I do not feel I need to live there.
I also have an elderly mother (I am the only child) who has a comfortable place and I plan to look after her on a more structured basis. Cutting story short, I do not understand why my DP gets so angry at our finances being separate? Why does he want to contribute to a refurbishment of a property where his name is not on the deeds? Why does he push for marriage his age? There is a lot of 'money chats' around what my plans are. In all honesty I do not have many money plans as I still feel young and with time to make those decisions. DP gets very animated I do not want to consolidate any assets with him etc. Surely he should be happy I am not with him for money (his house/ pension) and take comfort from that rather than getting upset. I welcome your thoughts.

you are right.
God, I feel so stupid.

You're not stupid.

I think maybe if it's right that you've missed out on having children because of him, it probably feels like if you end the relationship as well, that will make it for nothing?

But staying despite being unhappy and despite being constantly nagged and pressured (bullied really) is like punishing yourself for it.

It's called the sunk costs fallacy, when you've invested so much in the relationship, that it's very hard to walk away because it seems such a waste of your time, effort, sacrifice. But when it's never going to get better, all you're doing is wasting more of your time etc, which is what makes it a fallacy.

Also if he is this domineering/bullying, maybe it's also an emotionally abusive relationship(?) - which are also psychologically difficult to leave.

It might be worth getting a counsellor to speak with about these issues, to help you navigate what you want to do next.

Have you thought about asking him how he sees it working?

Will you sell your house and contribute 50% of the deposit
How much do you see us spending on a house
How long do you want to take the remaining mortgage out for
Where do you want to live
How does the area fit in with your work
What happens to the house when you die?
Who inherits the house
Are we splitting the bills 50/50

I'd even bring up right move and ask him for ideas on what he's looking for.

I suspect that once you drill down it will be about you paying for it all and him making the decisions. Or it's a fairy tale for him and actually he's not thought it through at all

Don't let him pay a penny if you are not married I've read too many threads on this where people have moved in together not married and it's not safe and make sure you have a will and next if kin... close friend father passed away no will so mother got family home then she remarried didn't leave a will and stepfather got family home and children got nothing

@Furla22 I actually think you need to stop asking him questions or asking what he wants, because his actions have made that abundantly clear: he wants you to meet his needs and the needs of his children, including through the use of your financial resources. That is what he wants. If he keeps going on about it then it means he cares more about that than about you.

So the real questions are for yourself: why are you still with him? That is not meant as an aggressive or rhetorical question, it is a genuine question, whose answer may help you either to accept his behaviour or to find the courage and determination to leave. Are you afraid of being alone? Do you feel some sort of guilt at the thought of leaving him? Does he bring joy to your life in some way that you do not want to give up? Are you afraid that your other relationships with friends and family will suffer if you leave him? Are there material or practical benefits for you to staying with him? There must be a reason or reasons why you are still there. If you can identify the reasons and examine them, it may help you to find peace with whatever decision you make.

One other thing I should add, in case you are mainly worried about being alone, is this: if you are young enough to want sex, but old enough not to be able to have children with a new partner, and if you are also solvent enough that you do not need a man to fund your lifestyle, then that will actually make you pretty darn attractive on the dating market to a man in his 40s or 50s who wants a partner but does not want to have an economically dependent partner or a new dependent child.

Stick to your guns OP. It seems it is all about him, his need to impress.

I get it he might want a hobby room or outdoor space but he has this at his house and as you said, he can sell that and buy smaller with a hobby room and garden.

Sounds like he wants his house, your house & eventually your mothers' house.

He is lining you up as his ATM, his carer and provider of his children/grandchildrens future inheritance.

Get out now, before he wears you down, and enjoy your calm, fun-filled, wonderful life. I wish you and your mum peace & happiness in a home perfect for you both.

He makes you unhappy.
There is nothing else you need to think about, question, ponder, etc.
Leave him and enjoy life.

I do sense that. I can not disagree with any of your comments. I mean over 133 people saying same thing can not be wrong.

Those who have enough of me (I understand, I am even tired of myself!) please roll your eyes, others though I want to leave space open to some of you perhaps able to share a story they know of similar circumstances. Knowing other people stories can bring a lot of reassurance in the decision process.

As for response to this quote - what we are saying here is that if a men with adult children talks about your money or generally about money every day that would raise your red flags? A man who pushes for and insists on buying a house together as a form of commitment is a red flag?
A man who pushes for that for years now despite you repeatedly saying now - red flag?
I think I wrote that yesterday just want you to confirm I am thinking correctly - buying a house together (the one I do not even want) is really lining up pockets of his children in inheritance correct?
Ultimately I do not want a house. I have one!
Sulking over us not ever having our kitchen and making me feel guilty about it can be seen as manipulation right?
I was suppose to resign from renting my apartment and having passive income which is my pension to sink it all in a house I do not want.
Next would be him asking me to sell my mums house so we can pay off the mortgage on the house that will go to his children?
Let's face it the house will not be solely mine until I die, right?

As for my Mum's house there are memories there and I have never had plans to get rid of it but to live there. I was always quite vocal about it.

To summarise, why am I going in a circle here - I am asking all these questions as I seek reassurance. I feel incredibly guilty that I do not want what he wants but on the other hand I feel it is inappropriate and bully style to be pushing your partner towards something she doesn't want.
Why he can not just accept that it is never going to happen?

I told him many times I am happy to split up as our future plans are very different. His response was silence.

Did you read my post above about the sunk costs fallacy? What did you think about it?

If you say you're happy to split up over it to him, what actually stops you from doing so?

I think you are spot on. Very observant.

All the comments here do make me think. Believe me harsh or not you are all very helpful.

good lord OP just leave

why are you making him responsible For your life choices

you could have left him and tried to have a child - you didn’t.

you can leave now and do whatever you want - you’re not.

why not? You’re not in love with him

you are strangely disconnected from your own life

he is who he is. He’s not going to change. Sounds like it would
be very easy for you to leave

leave

In answer to your question, the grumbling will stop when you stop listening.

(Actually, most likely he'll continue grumbling then, but you won't be listening so for you it will have stopped!)

Why not try it for a couple of months? Pull back, work away from home more if you can, give yourself space?

When I left my XH, I told myself it was only for a couple of months. If i regretted it then I'd go back.

I never regretted it.

It sounds a difficult situation, but I think you know the answer already.
He doesn't even make much effort to hide his grabbiness, does he.
Please keep everything separate and think deeply about what he actually contributes to your happiness.

I really think you ought to read Women Who Love Too Much by Dr Robin Norwood:

www.goodreads.com/book/show/239509.Women_Who_Love_Too_Much

Steer well clear OP.

This happened with my Dsis - she was living in a rental and had a boyfriend who rented somewhere else. They had been together about 3 months when she was able to buy her own small home and move out of her rented place. The bf spoke to the builder doing the renovations and told them to put various things into the place and that he'd pay.

Dsis then found out he was lying about when his rental agreement was going to expire and that he was expecting to just move in with her when her place was ready.
They split up and he refused to pay the builder for the work he had so magnanimously offered originally.

Wow! I feel for your Dsis. See this is what I do not understand in this world why would people do that? Where is the romance? Why is literally every relationship so dependant on the finances? Why is it all about contribution, half this and that, share, income, pension, inheritance, former children, money money money.
I mean seriously if it was more about love, romance, passion those guys would get out of these women so much more (incl the money). They really do not know how to play the long game do they?

The more I think about it - mature, financially independent women 40+ should really not get involved. I always thought that it is more women that want a wealthy fella to carry them through and are desperate to remarry after 40 or 50 to secure themselves. I so do not want to get married as I fear for my financial future.

Why is literally every relationship so dependant on the finances?

Don't write off all men because your relationship is poor. That's just giving yourself a reason to stay - there's nothing better out there for you.

I am financially independent (just). I married a couple of years a lovely man and finances are part of the relationship as they have to be when you share lives, but love and having fun together and enjoying life and supporting each other are all much more important in the day to day.

That's just giving yourself a reason to stay - there's nothing better out there for you.

By which I mean: you're saying to yourself that there's nothing better out there for you

I've already been there, done that. Asked very similar questions and you are right, it turned out to be what he wants. He wanted me to put all my money from my property and he would have put all from sale of his. I suspect that would be enough not to take a mortgage but he wanted a big house and in an area where we would need a mortgage. This means def a mortgage. I already told DP he is planning to retire soon, so it would mean I will be left with paying the mortgage (mind you for the house I do not even want) and his response was - 'what is wrong with that, I already paid my way in by paying off my mortgage on my marital home and bringing my asset into this.' To which I said 'ok I understand but you are asking me to take mortgage and pay off for something I do not event want.' Silence.

Even recently he was telling me how the last few remaining years on his mortgage stress him out and that his dream is to pay it off. To that I asked 'so if it stresses you so much why do you want us to take a mortgage together so late in life and put yourself through stress again?' Silence.

I want to live in London with access to art and other attractions. He doesn't. He prefers long commute.

His DC inherit the house of course. I was talking joint tenants with lifetime interest, he was mentioning tenants in common.

There is no alignment here.

My ultimate question is why in your 60s you want to move from one big house to another? Because of your comfort and your DCs. Now you have a younger housekeeper, just make sure she gives up working or works part time. She is stuck in the house looks after you, is isolated from the world but guess what she lives in a big house! Finish one mortgage and start a new one? Because someone else will be paying it off anyway. Even if I end up looking after him and only having part time job, I will not have anything left.

I (whilst still working) be paying off a mortgage on a house that will not end up being mine (lifetime interest) therefore lining the pockets of his DC, when DP passes I will have to move out the next day. Already read here stories of unmarried, childless women in relationships with older men buying as tenants in common and now feeling like they will have nothing left.

What I would say - these topics - the disagreement in them, really affects the romance. it's a kill joy. I do feel now how actually I was only an elevator of the retirement plan. There is absolutely no romance here. No dates, no intimacy. Every day is a 'money talk' day. Every day the man who owns a big house, still works in a well paid job and has secured his retirement in private pensions tells me how he hasn't got any money. Today I know it is to make me feel bad about everything. He complaints about not having a car (sold his) and driving mine because he is so poor and can not afford it. Ok so how will we afford to run a big house?

This house story is more of an ego trip and Inheritance for his DC. It has nothing to do with love and us as a couple. There is no love in his. He tells me it is all for us, for our future we are building together. What we future? There is no future. What future is he building with me and my money at 60? Only his DC future. We have not built anything. All I ever wanted did not happen, so there is no future.

Even writing it down here feels so powerful.

Well done OP for working all this out. Easy for us from a distance but not so easy when nose up against the "man you love."

It certainly sounds as though he is perfectly happy to sell your future down the river to make life more comfortable for himself and his family.

That sounds so sad OP. He’s pretty much admitted that the big house he wants, he won’t pay for, however it will be inherited by ‘his’ dc and you have no input as to who, or where your part of the inheritance goes.

no wonder it’s sucked they joy out of the relationship if it’s being brought up every day.

i can’t believe he’s sold his car, another example of him using you. Alongside him expecting you to care for him in his old age

id throw him back in the pond and find someone who wants to be with you, not just your bank balance