DSS (10) went to thump DS (4 and disabled)

[TemporaryChange1]

My DS can be incredibly challenging and you would never hear me pretend otherwise but what happened this evening has really upset me. DS is severely autistic, has LD's and suspected ADHD. His level of understanding is more comparable to a very young toddler.

DSC are round today. I left all of them with OH (father to all of them) whilst I nipped to the shop. DS began having a meltdown when I got home as he struggles with transitions and gets upset when people come in and out as he automatically wants to go outside himself.

As I come in DS begins crying and throwing himself on the floor. He threw one of his car toys which landed near DSD but not at her. It landed about a metre away from where she was sitting. DSS (10) jumped up, grabbed DS by the jumper and raised his fist ready to thump him in the face.

OH shouted for him to stop right there and don't you dare punch him, so he didn't, but he certainly intended to.

When DSS (10) went back to sit down DS (4) then threw another toy which landed near him this time. OH made DS apologise for throwing the toy. No apology forthcoming from DSS for going to thump DS.

Admittedly, DS is my weakness. I'm incredibly protective of him as he's just so vulnerable so I want to know whether you think I'm being unreasonable so be absolutely furious about this.

I got DS shoes on and took him out the house to the greenery down the road where we're now sitting.

OP, I think some people on here are being very harsh.

Sounds like your DH is angry partly out of shame about your DSS - who clearly acted very rashly and aggressively but is also just a child.

I think talking about justified/unjustified in terms of your DSS isn't very helpful in this situation, especially as your DH has accepted it was the wrong response. The issue really is your DH being so ill-tempered about it, and being intimidating to you. I hope you can talk to him calmly about that.

Have you told your DH that you're glad you're on the same page and thanked him for talking to the DSS? It sounds like he feels he has dealt with it - so maybe you can let it be for now and then raise it again at a time everyone has calmed down.

OH then latched onto the word aggressive and started shouting louder about how his son isn't an aggressive child and how i'm out of line for saying that because its not as though he "goes around beating people up"

Well actually he nearly did and would have if you/your DH hadn’t been there to stop him….
Id take that as a sign that it is not safe to leave your dss and your ds alone together.
(I have one child with ASD btw and had come to that conclusion with my own dcs. Had to fur a while until things calmed down)

It sounds like your home is a stressful place to be right now. Your sons additional needs meaning that there can be unpredictanle violence at any point, tensions between you and your husband. I think your ss is finding it difficult to navigate being in such an environment and reacted.

He might seem very big compared to your ds but 10 is only young and clearly he is feeling the pressure of being in a difficult environment, I think it is unfair to expect him not to have big feelings about that. He didn't show those feelings in an appropriate way but again he is 10.

Your suggestion of not being there with ds for a while might be a good one to allow your dss time to process everything that is going on so that his feelings don't boil over again in the near future.

Meh I think you're overthinking this op.. a ten year old threatening to thump his 4 year old brother ( regardless of step/ disability etc) is within the bounds of normal sibling behaviour//

I think you're reaction of packing him up and removing him from the house was a bit drama lama if I'm honest.
He's a ten year old who lashed out at his younger brother not a aggressive adult as your behaviour seems to imply.

I would have told them the ten year old off and left it at that.I get that you're very protective of your four year old though but they are both your husbands children so he will see it in a more balanced way than you will.

Meh I think you're overthinking this op.. a ten year old threatening to thump his 4 year old brother ( regardless of step/ disability etc) is within the bounds of normal sibling behaviour

Fuck that. Not in my house!!

My point is he didn't thump him. The op can't be sure he would have .
I have three boys who absolutely get on each other's nerves at time and particularly around the time of hormone surges etc.

I think all this talk about aggressive behaviour and keeping them apart is over the top abs will ultimately damage their relationship and your relationship with your dss

I wonder whether alot of posters here would be as tolerant of an unknown 10 year old grabbing and threatening to punch their disabled 4yo child at the park or school or wherever else.

I've read back through everything and I agree with what one PP said about being "step" clouding the issue and how people are so quick to explain away poor behaviour when a child is a step child as they've had it so hard, parents divorced so it's no wonder they lash out etc.

OH hasnt lived with his ex partner in almost 8 years, seeing dad in a separate home is all he has ever known.

It sounds like your home is a stressful place to be right now. Your sons additional needs meaning that there can be unpredictable violence at any point, tensions between you and your husband. I think your ss is finding it difficult to navigate being in such an environment and reacted.

I agree with this - the environment must be incredibly stressful. They must also be aware of the impact of you coming in and must have been on edge. The fact that your OH decided to be doing something else must have added to that.

Apologies Op, I thought I'd posted this last night, but I can't find it.
You're having a hard time of things on here, yet you're coping with it admirably.

Something from your posts on page 1 caught my eye, you said,
"I imagine he [DSS] must find DS' behaviour difficult to deal with yes, Lord knows I do and I'm his mother.
Also yes he has several areas he could move to if he was finding DS a bit much. I often encourage exactly that when a meltdown starts as ofc it's not nice to witness. DSS always opts to stay put and watch."

I found that rather concerning, that a 10 year old would repeatedly choose to watch his little brother when he's so out of control and distraught.

I know it's not easy, but do you think that alongside everything else you are trying to implement to make your home situation better, that you could look at the 'family's actions during a meltdown' situation and work out a strategy whereby your DSS is not present when DS has a meltdown.

I appreciate this isn't possible when out and about, but at home perhaps a better situation for all of you can be sorted out.

My autistic DD is an adult now, but I still remember the meltdowns in childhood, particularly before I learned to recognise the triggers and remove them before Defcon1 was achieved. Nothing is easy when you have an autistic child, but eventually through a lot of trial and error, you manage to have better coping strategies. You're doing a great job, never feel as though you aren't

I wonder whether alot of posters here would be as tolerant of an unknown 10 year old grabbing and threatening to punch their disabled 4yo child at the park or school or wherever else.

@TemporaryChange1 they are very much not the same thing though. If it were an unknown 10 year old I would think that there were environmental factors in particular at play but you simply would not know the background.

Here I think what myself and others are saying is even though it isnt acceptable the step thing isnt the problem. But the environment that you are describing isnt a healthy one and there are I suspect things at play that have caused this.

Has anyone spoken to him - told him he went to far and tried to see what caused the behaviour?

Op I don't think you are over reacting at all. It is especially worse because your ds is disabled. He is even more vulnerable than a 4yo who is able to stand his ground of some sort. This is just completely unacceptable. Your poor ds needs protection more than your dss needs sympathy over his difficulties in this situation. It seems like your dss already has it in him to be pushed to this degree. What happens if he does this again? Or does things when no one is looking after being reprimanded over this. I honestly wouldn't want him around anymore but I'm not sure that is possible.

Oh op I feel for you. Your DSS must seem so big and mature compared to your DS.

However, DS is still a child and he acted like a child.

What I would do is remove your DS when he starts to meltdown - remove the opportunity for DSS to stay in the room by removing your DS.

Also give the kids some space from each other. It can't be easy for any of the older ones and some time with just their dad will probably help defuse things.

Good luck with it all.

I wonder whether alot of posters here would be as tolerant of an unknown 10 year old grabbing and threatening to punch their disabled 4yo child at the park or school or wherever else.

But this is comparing apples and oranges. They're totally different scenarios with totally different dynamics and emotions and relationships at play. To suggest they're in any way comparable is a bit silly, frankly.

I'm sure that if I left out the part about DSS being step, and instead said they were full siblings, fewer people would jump to the defence of a 10 year old going to assault a disabled 4 year old.

No. Full siblings fight too. And nobody has said its acceptable. They've just said it's not uncommon.

Children don't always behave perfectly even if they're NT and well raised. He was told off. What else do you want?

And for the record op.

I have ASD but I wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult. I'm what would have been called aspergers I suppose.

My brother is 6 years older than me and twice my size and height and weight (or he was when we were children). We are full siblings.

We physically fought the bit out. Day in and day out. I broke his nose. On purpose. He pulled a chunk of my hair out by the roots. On purpose.

As adults we get on great. I know your DS has difficulties but I just want to let you know that some siblings do physically fight.

I'm sure that if I left out the part about DSS being step, and instead said they were full siblings, fewer people would jump to the defence of a 10 year old going to assault a disabled 4 year old.

People aren't saying that your son deserved to be punched. People know what 10 year olds are like and they physically fight younger siblings sometimes. I understand that a 10 year old is massive and much stronger than a 4 year old which will have made you angry at what nearly happened. Dss may be small adult sized at age 10 but his brain is one of a child and ime even the best behaved kid can end up making mistakes because their brains aren't fully developed.

Think about the adults on here who struggle with the behaviour of their kids. Venting isn't physical but kids don't really have an outlet like MN. If he's anything like the children I know with disabled siblings then he will have been patient and kind on many occasions (and even been unnoticed sometimes) which makes this incident sad but understandable. Expecting adult behaviour from a 10yo will inevitably lead to conflict and disappointment.

It doesn't matter if it's all he's ever known or not. It will still have a big impact on him. He knows that lots of his friends have both their parents full time and he doesn't. The moving between two homes will be unsettling and have an impact on him.

The situation isn't great but your son wasn't hurt. What do you want to happen from here? You chose to get into a relationship and have a child with a man who has children and that means you have to learn to handle these situations without overreacting.
You also need to accept that at age 4 disability or not your DS does have the potential to hurt your step children whether intentionally or not. He probably has in the past without your knowledge. Your DS's behaviour will be having an impact on your step children and you need to find a way to minimise that or you will have more situations like this.

You chose to get into a relationship and have a child with a man who has children

I wondered how long it would take before that one was rolled out 🙄

All of this!

Thank you for the supportive comments and solid advice on how to move forward and avoid something like this happening again, I appreciate it.

I think the father handled it very well going from your original post. Other than a chat afterwards reinforcing older boys behaviour was unnecessary and out of order, I think it can be left there. Not forgotten of course but no need to do any more for now.

I'm sure that if I left out the part about DSS being step, and instead said they were full siblings, fewer people would jump to the defence of a 10 year old going to assault a disabled 4 year old.

Is anyone actually 'defending' him, I.e stating he's done nothing wrong? Most posters are acknowledging it's not acceptable behaviour but that he's a child who is still cognitively and emotionally growing.
Agree with pp who mentioned the abuser/victim/protector triangle and that when you are so worried about your child's vulnerabilities, you will automatically be constantly on the alert and defence.
Absolutely disagree with the poster who suggested banning the 10yo from the home.

People have been defending him yes. People have said he reacted proportionately, that what he did is normal between siblings, that it must be incredible difficult for him being in that position and its understandable that he lashed out.

I've had replies that only mention how hard it is for poor DSS, completely disregarding the disabled 4yo he just went for.

That's madness to me.

The more balanced replies I'm taking notice of.

I agree I dont think anyone has defended him in the sense of this

People have said he reacted proportionately, that what he did is normal between siblings, that it must be incredible difficult for him being in that position and its understandable that he lashed out.

What they have said is that it is an incredibly difficult and fraught environment both with your DS needs and clearly issues between you and your partner that coupled with his age and emotional development could lead to him losing control. That he should not be demonised for it.

It sounds tough for everyone and a whole lot of factors ran together to create what happened and that needs to be looked at to prevent it happening again

Gosh this is such a hard one, it must be so difficult for you raising a child with such serious disabilities, I can see how incredibly protective you would become. Like you said he's so disadvantaged and vulnerable, so your reactions and feelings are in no way overprotective or excessive
However on the other side we have a 10 year old, whose father has left the family home and created a new family. However it has been handled this must have caused him a lot of pain and of course he's likely witnessed a certain amount of upset from his sibling so might be incredibly protective of her. Having a severely disabled sibling in incredibly difficult in the best of circumstances and with the best of intentions this little boy isn't 'really' his brother, they aren't being raised together so perhaps he lacks a protective instinct towards him. So maybe rather than concentrating on DSS's relationship with his dad etc maybe some work could be done to make him feel closer to and have more empathy for his little brother who will maybe need his older siblings as he grows up. Just a long winded way of saying improve the childrens relationship rather than push your DsC away