Things have come to a head... 'friend' being OTT and flirting with boyfriend

[IDontWantToGoToSchoolToday]

Yes, I have posted about this a couple of times previously. I'm feeling really shit at the moment so I'd appreciate neutral amd supportive comments rather than critical ones. Thanks.

In a nutshell, I'm in a social/hobby group of a dozen or so people. Mostly coupled up. I started seeing someone within the group and one of the 20yrs+ married women started flirting with my boyfriend. It became so OTT that it was embarrassing - other people noticed and were commenting. I stopped engaging with her other than when essential. I didn't ignore her if she spoke to me but I started avoiding being in that situation.

I spoke with my boyfriend about it. People had also commented to him about it. He didn't want to upset her by saying anything directly, even something as simple and non confrontational as, "Don't do that," and decided to just avoid her as I was/not seek out her company. He told me that he didn't know why she was doing it (but felt it was more to do with me than him as, when we'd first met, she told she was jealous of me). He said he found it weird and uncomfortable.

Anyway, it came to a bit of a head at the end of July when she asked me directly what the matter was. So I told her. I was cross about being the one who had to say something because it was nothing to do with me per se and I shouldn't have been the one who had to deal with it. She apologised to me and to him and no more was said. He didn't reply to her apology but it was definitely worded in such as way that it was intended to elicit reassurance on his part. He didn't give it.

We didn't meet up for the hobby over the summer so didn't see her again until a few weeks ago.

The first time, she ignored me, the second time she was friendly. I decided that, for the sake of the group, and so as not to be 'immature' as was suggested by some on here, that I would be amicable for everyone's sake.

However, she seemed to take this as a green light that everything was now OK, 6 weeks had passed and now it's business as usual. She hasn't been as bad and I wouldn't really describe her behaviour as flirting anymore bit she is still very tactile with him and he is now, seemingly, OK with it. I am not. I just feel I've been trampled over.

I feel betrayed by her as a friend. I feel betrayed that he has seemingly put it all behind him and he now seeks put her company for chats again. I'm sure others won't see a problem with that.

But it untenable for me. He and I had a long chat a couple of weeks ago and I said that I was strongly considering leaving the hobby over it because it was just unpleasant for me all the time - I feel disrespected and unvalued. He also told me in this conversation that he knew I would likely walk away from the relationship if I did. He was right.

The next time we were all together, and knowing this, he spent much of the evening chatting with her.

Afterwards, I told him that I would be leaving the hobby. He hasn't said anything about it either way. I have no idea what his thoughts are on it.

It's pretty much sounded the death knell for our relationship. I can't bear to be in the same room as either of them now.

He claims to have no interest in her and, by all accounts, he was in love with me for a while before we got together. He says he can't believe his luck. He tells me, and shows me, that he loves me. We spend all weekend together, we go out, he never behaves in a way that gives cause for concern other than this. He's overhauled my garden, cooks and does housework when he's here, treats me perfectly in every other respect. Talks about a future together and his actions, otherwise, seem to support this. But I just feel he doesn't respect me and has allowed the situation to continue despite knowing what the outcome will be.

I can't leave properly for another 3 weeks because we have a commitment to fulfill and I've agreed to do it. I'd be landing an awful lot of people in the shit if I pulled out now. But it's making me feel dreadful.

He says he has no interest in her but doesn't like to upset people and sees me leaving as choice rather than something he has caused/allowed to happen.

But I feel heartbroken and utterly bereft that I just don't seem to matter. I feel he has chosen being friendly with someone he claims to not even like all that much over an entire life with me.

I wanted to say I sympathise hugely. I'm in an outwardly quite different situation but the theme of lack of respect resonates.

I just wanted to say supportive that it may be that you, because of past experiences, are more triggered and get more wound up over issues of perceived respect than a lot of other people. I know I do.

Another person in your shoes might be genuinely able to laugh off this off and not be bothered.

That doesn't mean you gave, or that your feelings aren't valid, but another option might be thinking of times in the past you felt disrespected and considering whether overall he is really disrespecting you, or whether your association of this woman's behaviour with a perceived lack.of respect from your boyfriend could be something you could reframe?

You don't like whats happening but it would be tolerable to some people who might just laugh it off and find it less intensely threatening. So whatever happens with him, it's worth trying to understand yourself a bit better as we tend to encounter the same patterns in life until we do.

I say this as someone who would find the situation very difficult myself so I don't mean to patronise you or seem snide.

Difficult one. From his point of view he’s probably thinking you need to trust him and it’s not up to you who he’s friendly with and you shouldn’t be dictating who he talks to. Maybe he thinks you’re being a bit controlling. If this was a man dictating who his girlfriend talks to it would probably get different comments.

It seems a shame for you to leave your relationship and your hobby over this. Doesn’t this mean she won?

Can you not try talking to him again?

@IDontWantToGoToSchoolToday wait until you have left and let him see how the dynamic is then. She might back off or he might decide to leave anyway. I think it’s a bit much to expect him to leave a hobby if he has done nothing wrong. He might want to just leave quietly without drama, later.

You haven't given any examples whatsoever of how she flirts with him, just that they chat to eachother in the hobby and never outside of it?

I can't really see what he's doing wrong here. By your own admission she doesn't 'flirt' (by the way, it's usually incredibly insecure women assuming an attractive woman is flirting with her partner because she just exists/smiles/laughs) anymore and he isn't flirting either. What you want is for him to be hostile and rude towards her to make you feel better?

Sounds like a very controlling situation and I'm not sure I would roll over to you either. Where does it stop? Who isn't he allowed to speak to next? If you were a man saying you don't want your girlfriend speaking to a male friend you would get your arse handed to you.

Except that he doesn't reciprocate. He is only friendly with her. There is nothing in his actual conduct with her that is concerning.
He never talks about her, he doesn't have contact with her outside of the social group and yet she is still more important to him than me and worth losing everything over.

So he's only friendly with her in the group and you feel that's wrong. Suppose he does cut her off. Probably means that he'll need to leave the social group and you will too. What happens if there's someone else he talks too that you don't like, does he cut her off? Does he need to run all his social life past you for approval? You say yourself he's doing nothing wrong other than not doing as you tell him. If you were writing about your boyfriend telling you who you could talk to it would get quite a response.

He may well love you, be infatuated with you but if he sits down and thinks about it will his life be one of being told who he can talk to?

I remember your last thread, I think.

Wasn't this-
can't leave properly for another 3 weeks because we have a commitment to fulfill and I've agreed to do it. I'd be landing an awful lot of people in the shit if I pulled out now. But it's making me feel dreadful.

The EXACT same scenario last time?

His ego needs her.
More than he does your relationship. Leave them to it.
Bet he has slept with her by Christmas.

I was in this situation for many years and I kept fighting to keep the focus on me. I had conditioned myself to think that I was 'winning' by not breaking up and letting the other woman/women have my boyfriend. But looking back on it now, it was madness - why was I doing the 'pick me' dance for someone who clearly didn't value me?! Every time he chose someone else over me, it undermined my position and confidence further and further, and I see now that there was never going to be a point where he'd look at me and say actually, I'll prioritise this thing that I've ground down and devalued this far already.

I think your decision to move on is the right one, there's so much else in life that's hard that you have to fight against and fight for, your relationship shouldn't have to be one of them. You'll find the mental clarity and bandwidth you'll gain is just incredible, and whether you meet someone else or not, you'll know what it feels like to be prioritised, because you'll have put yourself first. That's pretty heady stuff.

Good luck, OP.

I was going to say he's a cowardly weasel because he's more worried about maintaining the status quo of the group than sticking up for your relationship, but actually it sounds like he is chasing the ego boost of being so important. You've been tying yourself up in knots over it/him, so he must be important. I reckon he likes high drama in relationships so that he can validate his own self importance.

Clearly actively seeking her out to engage in behaviour that he knows makes you uncomfortable is him making a choice. But he's made that choice for his own ego, not because you aren't good enough. I imagine a lot of his relationships go this way. And so nice that he's turned it around and dumped that choice at your feet.

The thing is OP,

We are only hearing your side of the story! Its a natural reaction from Mumsnet to agree with the poster, that's because we are only hearing your point of view.

This is obviously a women you really can't stand for a number of reasons:
She flirts with your Partner.
She irritates you.
She's disrespecting you by her behaviour with your OH.
Now, after all the drama of not talking to her/ him not talking to her/You telling your OH how you feel disrespected by her. He is chatting to her- by your account being very tactile with him. What are you doing when all this is going on? Standing nearby - watching and fuming at her audacity?

Have you ever thought you might be the problem?
You want him to ignore her- He doesn't flirt with her - he isn't texting/ calling her outside of the hobby - He is chatting with her at the group setting.

Now you are going to leave your hobby and break up with him because you don't like him chatting to her. You don't like her interaction with him.
Do you see how this all looks?

You are incapable of making this woman irrelevant to you and at the end of the day the only one that is going to lose out is you. Now based on your reaction to the whole saga - Going forward, she can happily flirt and chat with him as much as she likes as you'll now be out of the picture.

It sounds to me, the only thing you are upset about is that you can't control him.

Its no wonder your OH isn't fighting for you - He's probably exhausted by it all.

Sorry he is doing this OP and yes I would also leave if he was making me feel second best.

I remember your previous thread. He was also uncomfortable with how overtly flirtatious she was with him. So he is knowingly going back for more.

You have made the right choice

I absolutely agree with this. He's not actually doing anything inappropriate but you're saying he can't speak to someone at a hobby.

If this was a woman posting about a man saying she couldn't talk to a man she'd be told she was in a controlling relationship and to leave.

By seeking her out for conversation and accepting her being tactile with him he is making her feel this is reciprocated at best he is leading her on by being "nice"

Who says he's seeking her out. Just that he spent too long, in OPs opinion, talking to her, perhaps they had an interesting conversation.

He doesn't see

BAH! Doesn't see her elsewhere doesn't talk about her. Sounds like she's just someone he talks to at this gathering.

He should however do as he's told and avoid her like the plague. Probably best he leaves the group.

This is so complicated as I understand how this has made you feel devalued, but also we have to remember that we can place too much importance on relying on getting our value from others. She is trying to feel valuable by flirting with someone else’s partner, maybe this is her own marriage or self esteem issues and your partner is essentially in the middle of 2 women fighting to be valued the most by him.

She’s backed off and got over it because she has accepted she wasn’t going to get what she wants
From him and perhaps it wasn’t really enjoyable for her anymore. You still haven’t worked through how you feel about it because you feel disrespected by her and she wants it all to be normal again. He hasn’t devalued you, he’s devalued his own morals by being wishy washy and having no backbone.

If you break up with this man do not break up with him over this silly woman, break up with him because he is too cowardly to speak up to others when something isn’t right. ‘Allowing’ a woman to flirt with him embarrassingly for so long and never being able to confront it is a side of his personality you don’t like and he will not change

He’s let you down by it having to be you who addressed it and confronted it. I would just leave it there

I remember your other threads. You also blamed your boyfriend then, when it was the 'friend' who was putting him in an extremely bad situation and sexually assaulting him at times.

Your boyfriend didn't react to her then, and he's not reacting to her now. He's not encouraging her or doing anything bad at all. He literally cannot win.

What are his choices? Lose his shit at her (like you wanted him to do) and distrupt the group. Leave the group and lose his hobby he was doing before you came along IIRC, or lose you?

You got good advice on the previous thread. This isn't his fault, and whilst I can understand why you don't like it, it's your issue to deal with.

You need to tell him that he might want to see you leaving the hobby as choice, but it wasn't. You didn't have a choice.

I didn't want him to 'lose his shit at her' and I haven't ever imiednthat either. A quiet,"Don't do that," would have stopped it.

For those asking, running up behind him and giving him bear hugs from behind when he thought it was me; leaning her head on his shoulder; walking up to him with a sad face and her arms outstretched for a hug; inserting herself into conversation and private jokes he and I were having; stroking him; running across the room to pick things up he'd dropped when he was standing right next to it; sending him messges with ❤😍🥰😘 emojis; sending him messages saying that she knew he had me but if he ever wanted to meet up with her he only had to let her know (I don't think I mentioned that previously); throwing her head back and laughing at everything he said; gazing at him across the room in a way that was noticed by others and so on.

He wasn't comfortable but thought ignoring and not engaging would stop it. It didn't.

I don't care who he is friends with but had this been stopped when it started, there wouldn't be a problem now. He didn't say anything because he didn't want to upset her and for her to leave the hobby.

I have never suggested and wouldn't suggest that he leaves but I'm not comfortable with it now.

I dot trust him to protect the relationship akd tht is the bottom line.

I've removed myself from everywhere he could interact with her but that now means I have no idea what she is doing or how he is responding.

It's making me unhappy. So I am leaving all of it.

OP said he was seeking her out.

has no interest in her but doesn't like to upset people

This line always has me rolling my eyes! So he doesn't like upsetting people, but he's more than happy to upset the one person he's supposed to be in love with!

A lucky escape op

If you break up with this man do not break up with him over this silly woman, break up with him because he is too cowardly to speak up to others when something isn’t right. ‘Allowing’ a woman to flirt with him embarrassingly for so long and never being able to confront it is a side of his personality you don’t like and he will not change

This is exactly why I would be doing it.

I'd be really pissed off by all of this and would leave them both to it.

If he can't tell her to back off and then not spend all the time chatting to her he's not worth it. He loves the attention even though he says he doesn't.

And what someone else said, guaranteed they'll be seeing each other/have had a hook up by the end of the year.