Page 8 | Is this a compliment? *[content warning: concerns sexual abuse]

Shell563 · 2022-10-05T00:16:47+00:00

Would you see it as a compliment if a partner said he couldn't stop himself when you were having sex?

JorisBonson · 05/10/2022 15:58

Shell563 · 05/10/2022 15:51

I am an adult, exactly my point! I'm responsible for my choices & I chose to bring this man into my life. Okay, so I didn't mean for it to turn sexual (please, PLEASE believe me, I didn't want this to happen, I really didn't) but I can't just blame him. I'm ashamed to admit that a tiny, tiny part of me was flattered that someone was being nice to me. It's pathetic I know.

Men don't like hearing no. Not every man who I've ever said no to has beaten me, it's not like that, but the sulking, the moaning, the pleading & making me feel bad because I didn't just don't, especially if "it won't take long".

I've had a couple that have been very cruel if I said or showed no. One wasn't a relationship just abuse, one was my marriage, the ex who was arrested However in the past I've been physically assaulted, insulted, bulled & been forced to do even worse sex acts or had the sex act be completed with more forced than necessary as punishment. I will always choose the less pain route, but sometimes it's all I could do. Freezing at this point could also get me in more trouble & I'd just be hurt more.

I did explain to this current partner that I didn't really want a sexual relationship, that my ex (that he kind knew from years ago) had been abusive, on top of the stuff from my past he already knew about.

It was so hard for me, but when I suspected where he wanted the relationship to go that way I hinted I want keen, when that wasn't really working I tried to make it clear what I did or didn't want to do. Then, when he was already touching me over my clothes I tried to say what I find uncomfortable, he said he understood, but kept going a bit, I just froze

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You are literally only describing this one man!! Not men in general!

beastlyslumber · 05/10/2022 15:59

It was so hard for me, but when I suspected where he wanted the relationship to go that way I hinted I want keen, when that wasn't really working I tried to make it clear what I did or didn't want to do. Then, when he was already touching me over my clothes I tried to say what I find uncomfortable, he said he understood, but kept going a bit, I just froze

You made it clear you were not happy with what he was doing and he just carried on. I'm sorry, OP, but there's no way to put a positive spin on this. He is sexually assaulting you.

You don't have to be in a relationship with him. Just tell him it's over. Tell one of the carers that you trust that you need to keep away from this man.

Talk to women's aid. See if you can get some trauma counselling. Please don't stay with this man.

Owlsinmybedroom · 05/10/2022 16:00

I am an adult, exactly my point!
He is also an adult

I'm responsible for my choices
He is responsible for his choices

& I chose to bring this man into my life.
He chose to enter your life

Okay, so I didn't mean for it to turn sexual
But he did force it to turn sexual

but I can't just blame him.
Why not? You are acting like you are the only one with agency and choices here, like he isn't a grown adult with his own ability to control his actions

I'm ashamed to admit that a tiny, tiny part of me was flattered that someone was being nice to me. It's pathetic I know.
He knew that. That's one of the ways abusers choose their victims.

If he truly cannot control himself and has to have a relationship with sex, he could choose to find someone who wants to have sex with him or rape you. He is choosing to rape you. That is entirely his choice. Not your fault, not your responsibility, not your choice.

Watchkeys · 05/10/2022 16:02

If he truly cannot control himself

... he needs therapy, and to be put away until he can.

Quartz2208 · 05/10/2022 16:03

Oh OP you really do sound as if he has groomed you into this by each time eroding your view.

I suspect that you feel lonely and without friends so any attention is see as positive even when it sexual assault and rape.

Please try the freedom programme

BadNomad · 05/10/2022 16:04

OP, it is clear he has chosen you as his victim because he knows you are easily manipulated and your head is messed up about what is right and wrong. He is not with you out of kindness or love. He isn't a friend. He is just using you to live out his sick control fantasies.

Owlsinmybedroom · 05/10/2022 16:05

Watchkeys · 05/10/2022 16:02

If he truly cannot control himself

... he needs therapy, and to be put away until he can.

Well yes obviously, but that wasn't exactly the point I was making, but you are of course totally right with this

Choconut · 05/10/2022 16:06

This man doesn't respect your boundaries, he has no respect for you in fact and is just using you to fulfill his sexual wants by raping you.

It's seems you've been so badly abused and no doubt blamed for it in the past that it's hard for you to believe this is 'that bad' or that it isn't somehow your fault. To the rest of the world it is abhorrent.

If someone was crying because of something you were doing what would you do? Would you ignore them and continue doing it? How would you feel if you made someone want to wash themselves with bleach after you'd had sex with them? Would you do the same again anyway? These are not ways you would behave and they are not ways that people should be behaving towards you.

Watchkeys · 05/10/2022 16:09

Owlsinmybedroom · 05/10/2022 16:05

Well yes obviously, but that wasn't exactly the point I was making, but you are of course totally right with this

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You say 'obviously', but clearly it's not obvious to OP.

Owlsinmybedroom · 05/10/2022 16:13

Watchkeys · 05/10/2022 16:09

You say 'obviously', but clearly it's not obvious to OP.

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I'm not sure why you are getting at me tbh. I am trying to help the OP not get jibed at because English is my second language and I'm not writing things as perfectly as you would like.

I shall just leave you to it as you are clearly better qualified to articulate your thoughts perfectly.

gwenneh · 05/10/2022 16:15

I am an adult, exactly my point! I'm responsible for my choices & I chose to bring this man into my life.
And as an adult you can choose to heave him back out again because he does things you don't like.

Okay, so I didn't mean for it to turn sexual (please, PLEASE believe me, I didn't want this to happen, I really didn't)
Which is why it is rape.

I can't just blame him.
Yes, you can. Normal men don't rape people.

Men don't like hearing no.
Non-rapist men are adults who can take "no" as an answer and respect the boundary it sets.

the sulking, the moaning, the pleading & making me feel bad because I didn't just don't, especially if "it won't take long"
This is called "coercion" and is what makes the things happening to you sexual assault and rape.

I did explain to this current partner that I didn't really want a sexual relationship, that my ex (that he kind knew from years ago) had been abusive, on top of the stuff from my past he already knew about.
You said no. He went ahead. That is rape.

Then, when he was already touching me over my clothes I tried to say what I find uncomfortable, he said he understood, but kept going a bit, I just froze.
He understood and kept going. That is what makes this sexual assault.
This isn't a question of you not being clear enough. This isn't a question of any fault on your part. He looked for enthusiastic consent, didn't receive it, and went ahead anyway - that is not what good people in a real relationship do.
Ever.

Permanentterriblehairday · 05/10/2022 16:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Of course it's rape.

Disgusting victim blaming.

Ansjovis · 05/10/2022 16:19

You seem to be resigned to the 'fact' that sex is something that is done to women by men. That makes me so very sad because it's not a fact at all. In a healthy relationship, sex is something that you do together because of a shared interest in creating mutual pleasure.

I hope that sooner or later you will be able to see how what you have differs so dramatically from what you deserve. Pretty much everyone responding has said similar things, that's a pretty strong consensus. What motive could all of us possibly have to lie to you?

MNHQ

DawnMumsnet · 05/10/2022 16:54

Hi Shell563,

We just thought since this thread had brought up the issue, it might be a good time to post a link to a page we created about rape myths, as part of our We Believe You campaign. Here's the link.

We also wanted to point you in the direction of our domestic violence webguide, which contains links to many organisations which can give you some support in real life.

And finally here's a link to the Rape Crisis website. Please take a look at this page - I'm not sure what happened - which provides support if you’re wondering how to talk about what happened to you – or if you’re wondering whether it ‘counts’ as rape, sexual abuse or something else.

We'd also second the advice from other Mumsnetters to take a look at the help available from Women's Aid, and the Freedom Programme.

Sorry to briefly hijack your thread, OP. We hope you're okay.

shinynewapple22 · 05/10/2022 16:57

Quartz2208 · 05/10/2022 16:03

Oh OP you really do sound as if he has groomed you into this by each time eroding your view.

I suspect that you feel lonely and without friends so any attention is see as positive even when it sexual assault and rape.

Please try the freedom programme

I am in agreement with this post - but would also add that you seem to have known more than one man who has groomed you into accepting abuse in your relationship with them .

I would agree with every poster in here who has said to have a look at the Freedom Programme. I understand you are unhappy about your previous SW safeguarding intervention - but it may be that the SW would be able to refer you for some counselling or some work around empowerment / assertiveness . Alternatively you may be able to access this through Women's Aid.

Original poster

Shell563 · 05/10/2022 17:05

Owlsinmybedroom · 05/10/2022 14:54

I have slept with a number of men (between 10 and 20) and only one has ever tried to pin me down and he stopped as soon as I said no - I'm claustrophobic so I wouldn't tolerate this.

I have had a couple try to initiate anal sex without having checked first, but again they have stopped as soon as I said no.

I have had them ask for things I am not interested in, but whilst they may have pushed a little verbally, they never forced me to, or physically tried to make me.

I have however also been raped by one man. He did force me and didn't stop when I said no and when I was clearly distressed.

I understand why you want to think that this kind of behaviour is normal. And I'm not saying it isn't widespread, you only need to see the volumes of people being raped and sexually assaulted to know there are plenty of people out there who will try this.

But in a healthy, consensual non abusive relationship these things are not a normal party of an everyday sex life.

My partner has currently lost his sex drive and to be quite honest its frustrating (although I would never tell him that). What I am managing to do though is be a decent person and not tear his clothes off, pin him to the bed and force him to have sex with me. Because I love and respect him. And because I am only interested in consensual sex.

You sound like a very vulnerable person who needs help to get out of this relationship and to not fall prey to this kind of man again

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Okay to be clear here I'm saying that every single time we have sex I lay here sobbing like women on the TV, or violently restrained, I am NOT saying that. Things would be so much clearer if it was.

Most of the time when my partner wants sex I try to distract, sometimes I ignore, he starts & I either freeze, or sometimes I pretend for as long as I can, most of the time he's pretty excited & caught up in the moment. If I turn my head & shed a few tears he doesn't notice, however I'm not sobbing my heart out.

I understand that due to my past issues I don't always react as a woman should. This is not my partners fault, it's mine. I try to manage it, but I feel like I can't. He is aware of some issues, some in more detail than others but I don't want to go into them here.

It is very easy for people (I don't mean you Owlsinmybedroom) to say what they think they would do in a situation where someone is pushing boundaries, but in my world, it's not so easy. My brain switches & it's hard to even breathe sometimes.

I try really hard to be a normal woman.

OP posts:

gwenneh · 05/10/2022 17:08

Most of the time when my partner wants sex I try to distract, sometimes I ignore, he starts & I either freeze, or sometimes I pretend for as long as I can, most of the time he's pretty excited & caught up in the moment. If I turn my head & shed a few tears he doesn't notice, however I'm not sobbing my heart out.

None of these things are consent and all men know this, even the terrible ones. The ones who are rapists continue on, the ones who aren't stop. Your partner is the former.

beastlyslumber · 05/10/2022 17:24

I understand that due to my past issues I don't always react as a woman should. This is not my partners fault, it's mine.

You are reacting perfectly normal. It's normal to freeze when someone oversteps your boundaries - totally normal. Many, many women, including myself, will tell you that they completely froze when they were raped or sexually assaulted. It is normal, especially if you've had past trauma, to freeze in any situation where you are being threatened, even if it's just verbally.

You freeze up and cry when your partner forces you into sex. Any woman would react the same. It's completely normal.

What's not normal or okay is for your partner to keep forcing you. You've made it clear you don't want it. You freeze. You cry. Those are completely normal reactions that any woman would have if the same thing was happening to her. Your partner is abusing you.

It's not your fault.

beastlyslumber · 05/10/2022 17:29

@Shell563 Can I ask how you're feeling about all these responses? Basically everyone is telling you that your partner is assaulting you, but your response seems to be that we are misunderstanding the situation? You think he's not doing anything wrong, but you are?

Is there any part of you that can see the sense in what we're saying, or not really?

Would it be possible for you to break up with your partner even if you weren't 100% he was doing something wrong? You've expressed unhappiness, trauma and confusion. Would you be able to break up with him on the basis that you're just not happy? Maybe once you are not in the relationship, it will be easier to assess what was really going on between you.

Is there anyone you'd consider talking to? A counsellor or therapist?

Watchkeys · 05/10/2022 17:37

most of the time he's pretty excited & caught up in the moment

It's a 2 person thing. How come you know how he's feeling but he has no idea of how you're feeling? Each partner is meant to be involved with the other's feelings. It's not something a man does to a woman, it's something a man and a woman share. If it's simply something he takes from you without a thought for your feelings, it's abuse.

but in my world, it's not so easy

Because you have been so abused for so long. Some of us have been in similar situations and come out the other side. You're not the only person who has suffered this sort of thing. You have to recognise that it's not your job in life to 'be a normal woman'. Why do you even want to be that? You know how you feel: you don't want to be touched. And that's fine, that's nobody's business, that's entirely up to you. But you are disregarding it, and allowing others to disregard it. Why? Why is his feeling of 'getting carried away' more important to take notice of and respect than your feeling of 'I don't want to'? Why are his feelings more important than yours? Can you answer this? 'I put his feelings above my own because...?'

Original poster

Shell563 · 05/10/2022 17:44

Daisychainsx · 05/10/2022 15:00

OP this is so so sad to read. You have had a series of terrible experiences with men and NONE of this is normal or ok.

Just because he isn't beating you doesn't mean that what he is doing isn't sexual assault. You said he finds it hard to finish if he sees you crying?! What kind of man doesn't stop immediately and put a blanket over you and comfort you. And never have sex with you again until you initiate it and are 10000% in control and comfortable?!

I have NEVER been held down in any way, shape or form. I have never felt like I had to go along with anything just to make some guy happy. Please don't feel like his needs are any more important than yours.

I think you need to be blunt with him and say you're not ready for a sexual relationship, and if that's what he wants then it's time to part ways. Don't let him sweet talk you into thinking his behaviour is a compliment - it's not. He's abusive. Whether he is as bad as the last guy or not.

If you say no it means no. I'm a bit concerned that he gets off on the fact you don't enjoy it. It really is heartbreaking to read, don't sleep with him again until you've got help from a close friend or therapist. And if that's a deal breaker for him then run a mile, if I told my husband no sex for a year while I sort out my mental health, he would say 'absolutely', and that would be the end of it.

See, this is what I'm worried about, that my partner is being viewed badly because of how I put things. He doesn't just pounce on me while I sob with him loving every minute. I have had that but not with this partner & even then it was just my ex husband punishing me for misbehaving.

My partner just doesn't notice, he gets caught up in the moment. The way he described it was just being so overwhelmed, wanting & needing me so much he couldn't help it. Or him knowing I'm not keen on a certain act & him just going on & on at me or me freezing when he starts.

This is why I'm struggling to believe people on here, I think they have it wrong.

OP posts:

Watchkeys · 05/10/2022 17:47

Or him knowing I'm not keen on a certain act & him just going on & on at me or me freezing when he starts

You really can't see that he's wilfully disrespecting your wishes regarding your own body, here?

Shoxfordian · 05/10/2022 17:50

Your partner is a rapist

Garlicpotatoes · 05/10/2022 17:50

This is why I'm struggling to believe people on here, I think they have it wrong.

Unfortunately you don’t want to believe people or take advice. Until you do, things won’t change.

MrsTerryPratchett · 05/10/2022 17:51

Simply Shell if I don't like X, we don't do X. Same for him.

Almost every single man I've slept with knows this too. Yours WANTS to do things you don't like. And does.