Is this a compliment? *[content warning: concerns sexual abuse]

[Shell563]

Would you see it as a compliment if a partner said he couldn't stop himself when you were having sex?

@Shell563 PP's have said everything I'm sure but I just wanted to confirm- I've had a very well-populated sex life, sex with about 50 men over the years maybe, I lost count.

Only one man ever pinned me down non-consensually, once.

So no, not all men are like that.

It sounds like these men've enjoy making you more physically powerless than you already are.

If you want sex with a partner (it's not compulsory to have one, or the right one for you will accept you're not into sex) you can always ask a carer to stay outside/in another room. That way you can call them in anytime. This might also help stop men thinking they can do this.

But please stop seeing this rapist. x

Your feelings about men in general are completely understandable, you effectively have PTSD, that's why you're frightened of men. Plus, you're currently with an abuser, which will be retraumatizing you every time you see or hear from him.

I didn’t realise you were disabled for most of this thread. That’s not why we feel sorry for you.
No man I have ever been with has ever had a problem with accepting no. My first boyfriend in fact told me (because he knew it was my first time), that if you say no we stop. Immediately.
I teach my kids this in every day life. If someone says no, you stop. If they don’t want to be hugged you don’t hug them. If they don’t want to be kissed, you don’t kiss them. I think I said before that I hate the feeling of being tickled and my husband has never ever tickled me. I also don’t like people holding my hair or putting their hands through it. Again I told him and he’s never ever done it. Ever.
It is abnormal for a man not to stop. It is violently degrading for a man to do anything once a woman has said no. If you swipe his hand away, that’s it. That’s the end. If my husband is affectionate and I say ‘hmm no’ he backs off. And doesn’t take offence.
We are not in a movie. We are in a real good/bad, ups and downs relationship. But never ever has anything ever happened to me physically in a marriage that I didn’t want it to.

Also sex isn’t a compulsory part of relationships. If you don’t want to have sex you never ever have to have it. And that makes you still a perfectly normal woman. Having sex is not the price you have to pay to be in a relationship.
It is absolutely ok to go through the rest of your life saying ‘I don’t ever want to have sex again.’ There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with that.

@Dervel - it’s the OP’s call but I wanted to say that, for me, having a male voice confirming how wrong these men is a powerful thing and I’m grateful to you and other men like you for your input. Your sensitivity demonstrates how decent men behave.

“You can ask for help. You don't have to tell your carers or family why, even if they ask. But you can say, I want to finish with x, please be around to support me when I do. Please help me change my keysafe code. Please inform other carers not to let him in as our relationship is over.

You don't need to say anything other than, I don't want this relationship anymore. You don't owe any explanations. You don't need to feel humiliated for simply wanting to end a relationship that doesn't work for you.”

This is very good practical advice.

Yes they really can. It’s such a damaging myth that men can’t help themselves where sex I’d concerned. My DSis and I are both damaged sexually as a result of CSA (at the hands of our F) and both my DH and DBIL know this. They both find the idea that men can’t control their sexual urges very offensive. (Her XH was the opposite, but thankfully that marriage did end after 2 years.)

OTOH, my DM has always believed that men can’t control their sexual urges, and her advice in the past has been to ‘lie down and think of England’. (She didn’t know about the SA when we were growing up, it was her own history that makes her think like this.)

She isn’t the least bit ‘pathetic’ btw. She’s a survivor of sexual abuse herself (her uncle who was her guardian after she was orphaned) and she’s never had therapy. She’s also a very strong woman who has come through a very difficult life, but she still has very damaging ideas about men and sex. I no longer talk to her about it now.

She’s now 83 and not likely to change. But my DSis and I have both benefited from intensive therapy over the years.

You are wrong. They did judge me, or some did. The situation with my ex got very complex, when I returned to him once the professionals around me got very pissy. Unbeknown to me I was referred to a high risks behaviours panel. The minutes ask why I had returned if I'd experienced such abuse, & various other things. I cried reading them. I can think of several professionals who made comments that left me (even now) wondering if what has happened to me is wrong.

I don't have the option to just scheduled his visits when I have support here. I can try but that isn't usually how it works. Even if the carer was here, most of them think he is just being nice to me.

I am really trying to listen to what I'm being told here, but it's so conflicting. It's like I read something here, it sticks, I'm back in real life & my brain comes up with all these different responses.

He isn't beating me = he isn't doing anything wrong

He isn't being cruel = he isn't doing anything wrong

He isn't insulting/threatening/stealing from me = he isn't doing anything wrong

He is just doing as men do = he isn't doing anything wrong

Men have needs = he isn't doing anything wrong

The carers like him = he isn't doing anything wrong

Op I feel so worried and tense reading your posts.

A straight answer to your initial question - no it isn't a complement. In fact it's the opposite. When a man loves you, he wants to please you and make you happy (as well as vice versa). Importantly, he wouldn't want to do anything in bed that you didn't like. The fact this man ignores how you feel in bed shows he doesn't care how you feel. Which is the opposite of a complement.

EVEN IF you gave him the benefit of the doubt, and on one occasion he did something you didn't like (and ignored your response) - it would still be vile but then, when you spoke to him about it in the cold light of day, he would be appalled at himself, apologetic, contrite, and would make sure it never happened again. You've told him how you feel and he's basically told you that you just have to put up with it and he'll do it when he wants. The very opposite of loving or complementary.

In response to some of your later comments - the only man who has done something to me sexually that I didn't want - I never saw him again. That's how it should work. No decent man EVER does something to a woman that she doesn't like, doesn't want or hurts her. EVER. Other than that experience I've never had a man try to pin me down (unless we had agreed it beforehand and both wanted to). If I told my husband I didn't like something he'd never try it again. He loves me and he couldn't enjoy sex if I wasn't enjoying it.

If you don't want to have sex with someone don't have it. EVER. If someone gives you grief for that they don't think anything of you. They think of you as a sex doll they can use for their own enjoyment, and yours doesn't matter.

This vile man you are with is abusing you. He knows he is hurting you and making you unhappy and he doesn't care. If he cared he simply wouldn't do it again. He doesn't care about you or your feelings or your enjoyment.

You seem to think he's 'normal' and most men are like this. They really aren't. He is in a small minority of rapists and abusers who think their enjoyment is more important than the woman's they are abusing.

Your needs and your feelings and your wants are as important as his, in fact to you they should be the most important, much more important than his. Think about it - he puts himself first. He gets what he wants sexually and makes you unhappy. So why don't you put yourself first and look after you? He certainly won't.

You aren't imagining this. You are being abused. He is taking advantage of you and your situation, and the fact you have a difficult past, and the fact you are frighted of asking for professional help. He is preying on that. You deserve better. Please seek help IRL. Please talk to your lovely family. If my daughter told me what you've told us, I would do everything I could to get her out of the situation. Think how happy you could be, single and not worrying about this vile man coming to force himself on you and not caring a jot how you feel.

I got given two books from my IDVA (ex related)

One to read, one to fill in. Some parts rang true, but a lot of it just felt like it didn't relate to me.

It's like when I see abuse in the movies, I see abuse that follows a typical pattern.

Woman assaulted, intervention from outside agency, she tells the truth about her situation, she takes steps to leave, he turns up with gifts & apologies, she returns & is assaulted again.

I can think of maybe 10times in my life I have had a man tell me they are sorry or it won't happen again.

I don't feel I fit the pattern that those women do.

Aw I know it's difficult:(
If you were my friend, or I was your carer, and you went back to an abusive situation I'd be upset and worried about you. Maybe that's how they felt, frustrated that you were going back to let him do it again.. and it came off as judgemental. I wasn't there so I don't know but I'd hope that's what they were thinking.

Hes not beating you but what he is doing is so so much worse.
Your carers absolutely would not like him if they knew what he was up to.
Even the men here are telling you that the 'men have needs' is nonsense and is a li e he uses to get you to do things you don't want to.
He IS being cruel. So cruel that I've never even met him and wish I could give him a piece of my mind.
And men DO NOT do what he is doing. Scumbags do what he is doing.

Let's forget about him...
YOU deserve to be respected.
YOU deserve to have your voice heard.
End of story.
Change the locks.
He will continue to be charming and then horrible, then charming again. Its what they do.

Movies and TV aren't real life. Scripts have an agenda, a story to tell. They show things that way for a reason. It isn't reality. Listen to the people around you, the people who have no reason to lie to you, the people who get nothing from you.

I was seeing a counselor, the limited no of sessions type but that finished in the summer.

Safeguarding basically meant a lot of people meddling in my life, questioning me & thinking they understood. Yes, I got to make some choices, but not many.

My disability doesn't stop me thinking or feeling just as any other woman. No one has capacity concerns about me my whole life, UNTIL they found out my husband was abusive.

I've had 2relationships, some abuse (pre relationships) & a couple of drunken nights out where I should have been firmer (but I did consent, it wasn't abusive, just me being stupid).

My family would be happy if I were happy. Having a partner just means they wouldn't need to worry so much. They are getting older you see, relying on social care for support is a challenge, most people lean on friends & family too.

Access at my parents is an issue. Anyhow, I don't want to worry them.

No, no I don't. These days it's just me, partner, family, paid professionals

I'm sorry. I don't like to think of anyone having been in my shoes.

What I mean is maybe his hand wasn't moving back a little more aggressively when I've pushed it away. Maybe that's my mind playing tricks on me? I wonder how much of people's view of my partners actions have been influenced by that. If so then maybe... I don't know

That's a good way of thinking about it, thank you.

Its just hard forgetting his words, they come up all the time, especially at the moment. It's like you think you are free & then wham, there you are again.

What I mean is maybe his hand wasn't moving back a little more aggressively when I've pushed it away.
It doesn't matter how aggressively he moved his hand back. The fact that he moved his hand back at all after you pushed it away is what makes it sexual assault. You could tell us that he moved his hand back so gently it was like he was cradling a kitten - it is still sexual assault to put his hand where you don't want it.

Normal men who are not abusers do not do that. They can and do take "no" for an answer.

Was his hand moving back after you pushed it away?

That's enough for it to be bad. The aggression only makes it worse. The lack of doesn't make it better.

You've already said it's hard to hear that other people have experienced similar. That you would know that if a friend or familiy member went through what you are that you woukd advise them to leave. You know that focusing on the minutiae doesnt change the whole.

“He isn't beating me = he isn't doing anything wrong”

He is beating you. Sexual violence is also physical and psychological violence. Forcing you to engage in sex acts you don’t want to engage in is akin to/worse than beating you.

“He isn't being cruel = he isn't doing anything wrong

He isn't insulting/threatening/stealing from me = he isn't doing anything wrong”

He is being cruel by forcing you to engage in intimacy that you don’t want. He is insulting you and he is stealing from you because he is taking things from you that you don’t wish to give. He is stealing access to your body. He is threatening you because you’re not doing this out of choice and free will. You don’t know how to escape the situation. You are being coerced. Coercion doesn’t happen without threats. The threats may be subtle but they are there.

“He is just doing as men do = he isn't doing anything wrong

Men have needs = he isn't doing anything wrong”

Decent men don’t commit sexual abuse. Decent men don’t do what he’s doing. Men are not witless animals enslaved by their libido (if they were, then they shouldn’t be allowed out but should spend the day quietly having cold showers). If he wants sexual release, he can have a wank. That’s what decent men do - they don’t inflict their desire for sex on women. Women are not put on this earth to service men’s sexual needs. Sexual intimacy must be consensual or it is sexual assault/rape. No-one has a right to sexual intimacy with someone else. No-one.

“The carers like him = he isn't doing anything wrong”

If the carers knew what he was doing, they wouldn’t like him. Or if they did, it’s because they are also screwed up. Abusers are very good at presenting an acceptable face to the world. It’s part of how they operate.

What he is doing is horrific. He is a criminal who should be in prison. It worries me that you don’t have access to support that will protect you from this. I think talking to Women’s Aid and/or the National Centre for Domestic Violence - people who properly understand the dynamics of intimate violence including the conflicting feeling, the confusion, the sense of loyalty to and horror at the person who is harming you - would be very helpful to you.

You cannot hurt me from where you are, so you don't need to go. I do get that not every man is abusive, but thank you for asking (although I feel bad that you even felt the need to ask)

How can a man tell a woman is vunerable ? That they can get away with it? Looking at me it wouldn't be obvious I was vunerable in a physical sense unless you watched me stand to transfer.

Can I ask another question?
Can men tell how many sexual partners a woman has had? It's something else my ex said, in a horrible way that I don't want to get into, but can you?

Actually, can I ask you another question? You won't answer it, & I get why, but are you really telling me that if you saw an opportunity with a woman & could get away with it, you wouldn't do it? Or even CONSIDER it for a second?

But what if he gets angry at me & does something worse?

How can a man tell a woman is vunerable ? That they can get away with it?
They groom you. First, like your current partner, they establish a relationship of trust with everyone around you. Then they test a boundary to see how you react. And they repeat that until you have no boundaries and are sure you won't be believed by anyone around you because they all think he's wonderful.

That's grooming. That's how it works. And that's how they can tell. He tested you in the beginning, found your defenses down, and got stuck in.

Can men tell how many sexual partners a woman has had?
No. They cannot. Men who say they can clearly failed basic biology.

are you really telling me that if you saw an opportunity with a woman & could get away with it, you wouldn't do it?
No normal, healthy, psychologically stable man would ever take advantage of a woman. Ever.

So you are scared of him getting angry and doing something if you broke up with him. Is that the only reason you wont is that you are scared of what he will do

How can a man tell a woman is vunerable

Have a look at the shark cage. They try it on, basically. And if they get away with x, they try xx. And it they get away with that, they try xxx. On it goes, and suddenly, they've got you where he's got you.

www.wbsass.com.au/services/shark-cage

www.jennisspace.com/the-shark-cage-metaphor-spotting-potential-abusers/ (watch the video, it's worth the time)

Like what? What is it you think he might do?

If you send him a message and say ‘I don’t want to see you anymore, this is over’ then block him, what is going to happen? He doesn’t live with you, if he has a key then you can get the locks changed. What is stopping you from ending it?

So I asked my DH your questions. Other than being horrified he said (even as a physician) he cannot tell how many sexual partners a woman has had. Not even a gynaecological examination will reveal that.

And no it has never ever crossed his mind to do anything to a woman (or anyone) without her consent. He said, it’s like saying ‘have you walked past a knife and wanted to murder someone?’ Of course not. Wanting to rape someone (which is what ‘having an opportunity with a woman and getting away with it’ is) is NOT a normal urge. It is not normal to want to take advantage of someone vulnerable. Another man. Or a woman. Or a baby. So no he’s never thought ‘let me take a chance with this woman.’
Ever.
This is an abnormal vile way for a man to think. It really is.