Dating - what is reckless?

[Shuggz]

Hi all,
Apologies if this sounds silly, just wanting to get some objective opinions.
I am currently dating and met up with a fella at the weekend. I did stay over in his place and had shared with a friend where I'd be, his phone number etc just in case and I also told her I'd check in at some stage during the night.
I told my sister about it this afternoon because I was a bit unsure of things and she went mental and told me that I had been incredibly foolish to go over to his like this. I was a bit shocked because I didn't think I had been very foolish, and while I know that there is always a risk I thought I had taken precautions just in case.
Since I haven't been back in the dating scene for a while...did I really did something really stupid or is my sister just over the top? Are there other things that should really be done and considered?
Thanks!

Charlotte York was a character not a manual for how to snare a man!

There are lots of places/ times women get raped and/ or murdered.

There are no 100% safe places and the only 100% safe men are the dead ones!

Balancing up having a ONS at his place/ yours/ hotel/ elsewhere at his isn't the most risky in my mind. It's easier to leave than to get someone out of your place. You can also check on a few things before DTD (like his bathroom cabinet) if you have any doubts.

OP, I agree takeaway pizza is delicious and not to be so easily dismissed!

I came out of a relationship a few months ago and have been on a date with a lovely guy I really fancy. Met on an app but have real life mutuals/know who he is etc. I am open to going back to his after our next date if it goes as well as the first, because we get on really well and fancy each other and I don't want to be playing games! Maybe it's a generational thing (although I don't think that's it) but I find some of the attitudes to female sexuality on this thread shocking. And thank god for the posters who've pointed out that women are most likely to be hurt by actual partners / exes- it is madness to think additional dates will prevent a bad man attacking a woman and ultimately it is very hard to know which men you can trust. I'd been with my ex years before he became violent.

Life is short OP. I think your risk management of sending location to friend seems sensible. Enjoy yourself and I hope there are more dates.

@Cyberworrier
and I don't want to be playing games!

what does that mean?

Maybe it's a generational thing (although I don't think that's it) but I find some of the attitudes to female sexuality on this thread shocking

I'm curious to know what you find 'shocking' - please elucidate ?

@Newusername21 I have been dating very very recently and no I wouldn't go to his house on date 2-3-4-5 and beyond until I felt completely sure. Guess what? Men who really want you wait as long as it takes, even 8-9 months and they keep seeing you twice a week just because they love being with you.

I'm in my 50s and I'm horrified sometimes by what I read on mumsnet. This guy asks her to go over so he doesn't even need to leave his house and there OP goes offering herself on a plate. It's not a matter of this being 2002 rather than 1950, it's a matter of people valuing themselves. A woman who respects her mind and body will NOT go to a bloke's house on the second date and have sex with him. Full stop !

Why not @forgotoldusername ?
What if she wants to?

@arethereanyleftatall because she's treated like a nothing. He's shagged her and now probably he will either not contact her again or will only want a booty call.

A man who has feelings for you wants to talk to you, see you, so interesting things with you, chat with you. He only wants to shag her now with probably some late night fake "deep conversations" thrown in.

She's set the bar super low and it won't be raised now - not with this man. So better to chalk it up to experience and move on for OP but never repeat this behaviour

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me which of my posts have been "judgemental", but no response so far from those throwing out accusations they can't substantiate.🙄

Playing games for me in this scenario would be feeling that I need to prevent mutually desired sex between two consenting adults in order to ... I think the implication is to make him wait because otherwise he will think I'm easy? Or is the game that he will like me more if I wait for sex longer!
It just seems very contrived and unnatural to not go with your instincts as an adult with another consenting adult. A game. Not being safe, not being sensible, not being moral. I'm certainly not advocating everyone shagging everyone ASAP and I will see how I feel on my next date, but I just find the blanket aversion to adults who fancy each other having sex rather conservative!

What I find shocking is people not getting that women are allowed to have sex and enjoy sex with men they date, yes even on the second or even first date. There is a huge history of shaming female sexuality and I find it sad that such attitudes are still prevalent.

@forgotoldusername

1950s are calling...

She hasn't set the bar super low!! She's done what she wanted to do!

If a man dumps due to sleeping with him on the 1st date, when he's done exactly the same thing, then he's sexist isn't he? A hypocrite. Not someone you want to be with long term anyway. So, it's a good thing she slept with him so he showed his colours early and she can dump him/be pleased he ghosted.

Having sex with someone, because you both enjoy it, and enjoying each other's company, aren't mutually exclusive.

Oh come on, being 50 should make you more aware of how repressed any female expression was 50 years ago in many countries.

You must be aware that women have a libido and like sex. Sex has nothing to do with respect - everything to do with consent and enjoyment between adults. Men have conditioned women like you to attach your value and self worth to the having or not having of sex too soon.

In the 70s and as late as the 80s women couldn't get mortgages or credit or be served alone in a pub!! Did you not think that was shocking?

No wonder women used sex then as a weapon only to be offered to men who deserved it. They had all the power and all women had was the control over access to sex. When women got equality and birth control it unshackled them from denying themselves sexual pleasure because of what men thought. No one cares what men think anymore about sex. Women want orgasms, just like men do. It's not more complicated than that.

www.stylist.co.uk/visible-women/law-lawyer-feminism-today-history-gender-pay-gap-abortion-equality/188525

@Cyberworrier
you said What I find shocking is people not getting that women are allowed to have sex and enjoy sex with men they date, yes even on the second or even first date.

What's this "allowed" tosh?
Of course people are allowed to do as they please, have sex with who they want to, when they want to. I don't think anyone is disputing that. But there are always consequences to every choice.

I'm certainly not advocating everyone shagging everyone ASAP

Isn't it? So when do you think it is appropriate to wait for sexual activity? (if at all)

Have a look on this site and see how many times we get a post from female saying, "we had sex first date and now he's ghosted/not called/blocked me." Why do you think this is?

I await your erudite response.

@TheMoonisaBalloon

Why do you think that is?
Because either...

A) he's a sexist twat. In which case, good riddance. Didn't waste time first. Great.
B) he only wanted a shag. As, hopefully, the girl did. Great.
C) they had a shag and discovered early doors they're not compatible. Didn't waste time. Great.

No thanks! I posted my comment for general discussion but principally for the OP. I have no intention of entering an argumentative tête-à-tête.

Have a look on this site and see how many times we get a post from female saying, "we had sex first date and now he's ghosted/not called/blocked me." Why do you think this is?

im afraid I don’t agree
men (and women) ghost all the bloody time

i do see alot of ghosting’s
but they are rich and varied in their source !

if he’s gonna ghost , he will ghost anyway

i see no link between second date sex and ghosting

look if people have boundaries and want to wait fair play to them , each to their own
and IF you want to get to know someone more deeply then that’s totally ok

but saying second date sex leads to ghosting reads alot like slut shaming to me
and isn’t true !

Jesus Christ…

@ganvough Sex has nothing to do with respect

Yes it has.

I am hearing all the arguments that today some women are simply behaving the way men have always, exercising their libidos without shame or stigma. However, what I’m seeing on these boards in the back-wash of all this liberation - a lot of women longing for a committed relationship, who aren’t finding it.

I read about young women walking away from first-date sex/casual hook-up/ONS aware a follow-up is not required or likely, but still hoping for some sort of acknowledgment that they are more than a sperm-receptacle.

Some women I know still hope for, long for and believe in something higher. They still believe that sex can be about respect, mutuality and love. They still long for a passionate connection with a man who loves and respects them.

To think otherwise is objectifying both men and women.

Have a look on this site and see how many times we get a post from female saying, "we had sex first date and now he's ghosted/not called/blocked me." Why do you think this is?

Because a lot of women have been so conditioned to think that sex on a first date is bad. So any rejection from a man post that point brings the self flaggelation where they think they've done something wrong. This post shows how many women are still judged by others, including friends and family and carry the blame - you slept with him too soon, that's the problem. So there's always guilt and shame associated with sex. I think many other countries are far more open minded than the UK and USA which have very Victorian and puritanical views of female sexuality.

A MUCH better message to women would be to enjoy sex and if he doesn't call, it's nothing to do with you. The same way if you marry a guy and he cheats it's nothing to do with you. The same message we give men, no one shames them from having sex too soon. It's no different to a lot of very religious people who see orgasms and sex for pleasure as shameful and struggle to enjoy it. Because their whole lives they've been told it's got all this expectation and morality attached to it.

I genuinely think women who are liberated from attaching any male expectations to their sexual desires have much healthier dating experiences. Not women who have have sex sooner than they're ready because the guy wants it, or they think he'll like them more, or want to show how cool they are, or are just too drunk. When women own their sexuality, it's threatening for a lot of small minded men who think she's just a receptacle for his pleasure. Those are the men you avoid. Lazy and selfish in the bedroom guarantees selfish and lazy elsewhere.

@ganvough
I think I love you. 😂
Anyway, everything she said.

And women who ENJOY sex on a second date shouldn't be shamed. There's place in this world for everyone. If you spent time at kink clubs you'd see plenty of women enjoying their self expression and sexuality with no judgement. You may live in an echo chamber so it's important to understand not everyone view sex as you do. In other Western European and even African countries, people have sex freely in and out of relationships. Even in the Uk there's women dating who enjoy themselves and have relationships/get married despite a first date shag. I was one of them. In fact I've never had a LT relationship where I didn't shag on at least the second date.

The MN Relationship Boards are NOT indicative of healthy relationships for the simple reason no one out there enjoying their choices is posting on a forum for help...

@ganvough so why do these "liberated" women who sleep with gut on first or second date then come to mumsnet upset that he didn't call?

Surely they should be ok with it, they are "liberated" they had "sex for sex's sake" . Instead they come and cry and are upset on here.

With men it's really easy - if they want sex and have to wait for a loooong time, they disappear.

And believe me, no man will wait months and months just to have sex and then ghost you. My ex waited 8 months and we had a wonderful relationship, we really developed strong feelings in that time

Op, it's a risk but one that plenty of us take. I slept with DH on the first date. Ten years later I'm sitting on our couch watching kiddie tv with our daughter.

Hope you enjoyed yourself OP. I think you took a few reasonable precautions. There was still some risk, yes.

Why not sit down with your sister and discuss how she thinks you can eliminate risk completely? (Spoiler: you can't). But it might help her to talk it through. She's probably just concerned for you.

I have to say that inviting a stranger to your house does feel more risky to me - I still did it a couple of times but that's one I probably wouldn't repeat now.

Tbh I can enjoy sex with a huge proportion of men and some women, including men i don't have a single thing in common with. If I want to spend an actual date with someone, I'm MUCH more picky.

To my point, they are still getting shamed by friends and family. I mean can you read the guy's mind? Has any man ever told you or the women who come here, 'hey I didn't call as you slept with me too soon?'.

Or are people projecting their own repressed beliefs about sex and dating stemming from a time women had minimal rights and equality? How many women actually grow up with parents, teachers, society encouraging them to enjoy sex, play the field etc, don't settle down too young, masturbate, like young men are.

Hopefully women who come here and can see posters like myself who are sex positive and feminists who have happy, healthy relationships with men - that sex is NOT the go to reason he didn't call. And even if it was, it's a bullet dodged. If you want to sleep with him, do it without expectation and enjoy yourself.

@forgotoldusername
@TheMoonisaBalloon

It's not the same women...

The liberated women enjoying sex on the first date aren't they one's upset about being ghosted.

@ganvough
And women who ENJOY sex on a second date shouldn't be shamed.

Where are they getting shamed?

You may live in an echo chamber so it's important to understand not everyone view sex as you do.

Using a putdown and patronising language to someone with an alternative view is a poor way to debate.

There's place in this world for everyone.

No argument - there's a lid for every pot.

The MN Relationship Boards are NOT indicative of healthy relationships for the simple reason no one out there enjoying their choices is posting on a forum for help...

So why are you here?