Older men hitting on teen DD

[GrossedOutByOlderMen]

NC for this one.

I have a 16 year old daughter who has suddenly become very beautiful. She is the youngest of 4 girls so I am used to blossoming teens suddenly gaining male attention, but this is totally different. And I am not stealth boasting, this is making me feel ill...

She gets stopped in the street, constantly catcalled and "bothered" when she's out and about which she gracefully ignores, but she has started a job as a waitress and is being propositioned on a daily basis while she's trying to work.

But the horrible thing is it's almost always by men in their late 30s, some even older. I've seen them in action - they literally follow her out of the restaurant to get her number as I wait in the car to pick her up, and they are quite pushy.

She always drops the fact that she's 16 into conversation (although tbh she doesn't look much older - eg cant buy alcohol) but that doesn't deter them at all. Yesterday we went out to the cinema and some 40 year old bloke was trying to pick her up IN FRONT OF ME despite knowing her age and that I am her mum?! I am absolutely disgusted by it - I know she is "legal" but it just feels really grim.

She is a quiet girl and is embarrassed by the attention - she would be mortified if I ripped into someone, though I was VERY tempted last night - she said she was 16 and had a boyfriend but the guy wouldn't drop it. She wanted to leave early so we came home 🙁.

Her boyfriend is also 16, and boys her own age might flirt / try to get her Snap but they don't act this way towards her. When my older girls were that age I was a big believer in letting them sort their own issues out but she just feels really vulnerable.

It's affecting her confidence and tbh I'm increasingly furious (she doesn't feel safe getting the bus any more after 1 incident, has started wearing ridiculous baggy clothing.....) I feel helpless because if she was 6 months younger she would be a child and the "rules" would be different. But she IS still a child!

How should she / I handle it? (Before I lose my shit at one of them and end up in the papers!)

I have this problem with my 15 year old. She is 5 ft 8, and looks a lot older and is very attractive. And with the additional issue that she has a very mild LD and is very innocent and so will smile back when people smile at her and say hello if they do... we were on holiday last week in Greece and it was honestly
Awful. She got hit on by men in shops, the waiters at the hotel, men on the beach-of all ages.
I worry about her going out on her own because even though I've told her not to engage, it doesn't matter anyway-they do it regardless.

My older DD also has this to a lesser degree, probably because she actually looks her age which is 16, but is better at telling them to do one.

Does make you wonder exactly what percentage of men actively desire sex with a child, doesn't it? My experience of swim training is that it gets WAY less once you're clearly an adult. I wonder if its like this in all sports:
Teen or pre-teen: perverts
Adult: 'Well you see love, what you really need to be doing is...'

This happened to me from the age of 12, always had men hitting on me of all ages. I got quite bolshy and confident eventually, after being really confused to start with, but yes they shouldn't be doing it.

Not many men would be attracted to children but I think quite a large number are hebephiles or just like to harass or make young women and girls feel uncomfortable.

I’m very sorry this happened OP but frustratingly, it’s something that every single female human experiences. Others have posted good tips and I agree that minimal engagement is key and an angry call out also pushes back, shows defiance raises adrenalin (fight/flight) and alerts others nearby. Being observant is crucial to keeping these instances down. It’s habitual for me now to mentally clock everyone within an immediate radius, esp males, and there’s a certain way of doing it that lets them know you’ve clocked them too so they lose the element of surprise, which is crucial. Also not having both earphones in or being completely engrossed in their phones. That is a really hard one to get through to teens on.

I have 3 daughters and I remember clearly the day my eldest came in aged 12, still confused as to why she was just beeped at when crossing the road on her way home from school that day. It took a few minutes for the penny to drop and boom … 💥 I pretty much witnessed the end of her childhood right there. Another time she was catcalled walking through the park and another had a random man in his ‘30s put his arm around her on a busy city street as she walked in her group of friends. Her pals shouted at him and called him a nonce etc and since these experiences she is now quite wised up.
Now my middle girl is 12 and when we were at the supermarket last month a man in his ‘60s who had a few beers on him was queuing at the till next to ours. Leaning back against the conveyor belt with his arms folded and legs splayed a little, he fully turned to face my daughter appraisingly and start talking to her as she was putting our items on the belt. I clocked it straight away and got her to come up and swap with me at the packing end, giving him a huge glare as I swapped places. As we were leaving he came alongside us and started speaking to her again, saying ‘hello’ in Italian and asking her if she knew what it meant.
Having ZERO tolerance for this predatory shite I said loudly and firmly “Leave her alone. She doesn’t know you and she doesn’t have to speak to you. Stay away from us!”
My girl was a bit shaken by it because she knew it was inappropriate but found herself responding out of conditioned courtesy. I am glad I was able to model a strong rebuke and I hope she remembers it. We spoke about how men will exploit vulnerability and youth/social hierarchy and how learned politeness or respect for elders goes out the window when being made to feel uncomfortable from unwanted attention and that it is ok to firmly ignore or call out inappropriate behaviour.

I waitressed all through my teens and twenties and left several restaurants because they didn’t take customer harassment of staff seriously. Too worried about losing a big paying table than about protecting their young workers and honouring their duty of care.

Honestly I'd forgotten about this side of waitressing (and was lucky to mainly work in places with nice staff and customers) but I've had a sudden memory of a male colleague offering to take over one of my tables because a man on it was being a pain. I don't think I even really clocked what he was doing at the time but I said yes.

I'd suggest she asks a colleague to serve any person who catcalls/harasses her. If it's the kind of place where they won't do that or the customers are mainly dickheads, I'd suggest she gets a job somewhere better (everyone is looking for staff) and tells her old boss exactly why.

I think we need to make this an issue for men to tackle as well - encourage our sons to be allies and understand what is happening.

Where is her manager in all this at work? I would be beside myself if my 16yo staff was being harassed by customers.

I'm disappointed that #metoo has not made a difference for this generation of teens.

DD and 3 of her friends were flashed for the first time over the summer holidays. They are all 12. He knew they were all 12 because he asked them first.

DD is very shy and tends to ignore people who try and talk to her in public. I've said if she desperately needs to say something to just say a firm "no" and keep walking. My favourite retort was always "sorry, I don't have any change". Satisfying, but safest not to engage at all.

On reflection, #metoo might have had an impact on this generation of teen boys. DD gets a lot of male attention from older boys at school, but has never had a problem with them not taking no for an answer, plus has had some really sweet responses to learning her age (sorry, didn't realise you were in Y7 type thing).

Thankfully dd1 has a nice job in a sandwich shop run by my friends Dh who is a father of teen girls himself. Stopped waitresssing in country pubs myself as a teen as the chefs were so vile to the teenage girl waitresses. A friend who lives rurally said most of her friends teen dds had given up working in country pubs for the same reason.

And then they can't understand it when REAL 12 and 13-year-olds won't come back to their filthy bedsit for sex. Their whole sense of normality has become warped. Unfortunately, that frustration then turns into anger.

Your poor daughter!! Mine too has just started mentioning this sadly.

She's still 15 but has recently started looking a lot more confident and grown-up and said that random men aged around 30 have walked up to her in the street on at least three occasions in the past week, telling her she looks nice, asking her name, if they can help carry her shopping, telling her she's pretty etc.

When she says she's 15 they almost scram but she won't have that safety net soon. She's gay though, so that will hopefully help.

I got a fair amount of attention as a teen/young person, but it was in the appropriate setting, ie pubs and clubs.

I find this new intrusiveness very alarming and wonder if it's because on the one hand the availability of porn is blurring some men's boundaries, while at the same time women are becoming increasingly harder to meet and connect with, because men just aren't everything to them anymore.

I find this new intrusiveness very alarming and wonder if it's because on the one hand the availability of porn is blurring some men's boundaries, while at the same time women are becoming increasingly harder to meet and connect with, because men just aren't everything to them anymore.

This honestly is not new. This is exactly what I grew up with. I do think porn has made things worse in general for women, but street harassment has always been bad. At least builders don’t think teens are the free for all they once were.

I taught my two DDs to be loudly assertive when they were teens. Phrases such as “Really? My dad’s the same age as you” “ Do you usually annoy young girls?” Loud, strong voice is essential. If all else fails she swears “ get your fucking hands away from me” Practice at home. She says the piece, eye rolls, walks away. Amazing how shocked the men are and most crawl away.

Also not having both earphones in or being completely engrossed in their phones. That is a really hard one to get through to teens on.

To this day I find it hard to wear earphones in the street - and I’m old. We had self defence lectures for a the first 2 years of secondary school and it was drummed into us not to wear them in the street.

This makes me so mad. I grew up with the same, still experience the harassment and now my DD is starting to be on the receiving end of it. It's so hard to judge how to react. Many men are prone to violence when feeling humiliated by a girl/woman and the type of men to be trying it on with children are already a bad sort. We as the other adults need to advocate for our kids and even other people's kids and express our own complete disgust at these men.
There is no way in hell I would not intervene based on the fact a 16 year old could legally have consensual sex, especially if that was my child. I can't get my head around that logic, sorry.

So much good advice, thank you.

And I am so conflicted on intervening - I have worked hard with my girls to make them feel empowered to solve their own problems at that age, so while I'd like to cause a screaming row (although the guy last night seemed to think it was funny?!), if my daughter tells me she can handle it I don't want to undermine her and make her feel more powerless. If I had caused a "scene" last night, would she be anxious about going out with me in the future (as avoidance is her current plan)?

But you're right, I might need to re-evaluate that. And I will definitely be talking to her about the strategies you have all shared.

If she calls someone a nonce I'll be back to (proudly) update!

Loving the “haven’t got any spare change” that’s genius.

And I continue to have hope for this generation - as I said in my OP, boys her age don't behave the same way, it's the 30+. If I read a thread on here in 15 years saying the same thing I will be disappointed all over again.....

Well read everyoneisinvited.com then.

A few years ago France created an anti-street harassment law. Obviously it hasn’t ended street harassment, but it has spotlighted the issue and allowed for advocacy to make it clear that this is unacceptable behaviour. One useful thing about the law is that police officers can issue tickets on the spot - there’s no need to press formal charges or anything. There’s also been a lot of awareness training for transportation staff etc, as well as ad campaigns.

Before anyone jumps in to tell me - I KNOW it’s still a problem in France, as it is everywhere, but at least by naming the problem no one can claim they don’t know it’s offensive.

If I read a thread on here in 15 years saying the same thing I will be disappointed all over again.....
except that'll probably still be the same men

Her manager should be stepping up for her, rather than her feeling she needs to quit her own job. IS the manager aware OP - & how does s/he respond, if so?

Gosh,

Were you never a teen girl, or have any teen girl friends?

Have you been living under a rock? 80% of women & girls have experienced sexual harassment/assault. And it starts YOUNG.

Her manager has taken over a 'difficult' table a couple of times and has told her to let him know if she has a problem. She has done that a few times but there are lots of them fighting for the same shifts and I think she's concerned that if it's every shift and/or more than 1 table a shift it will just be easier for him to get someone else in on busy days than have to do it himself. Maybe she needs to flag it every time and see what happens, as I can't see her staying anyway!

Again, I think it's her not wanting to 'cause a problem', but it's NOT her causing the problem! She just wants to do her job!