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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Post-divorce relationships: How have your partners shown long-term commitment?

151 replies

toksvig · 30/08/2022 12:21

I’m 3.5 years into a relationship with a great guy, both post-divorce, both 50/50 residency with similarly school-aged kids, living apart together. Sadly, I think I’m coming to the end of the line because it’s becoming increasingly apparent that DP can’t offer what I want. I don’t want remarriage (too much financial risk) or cohabitation while the kids are still at school (we live an hour apart) but I do want some firmer plans for our future life together.

I’ve raised various ideas, e.g. a commitment ceremony, a ring, buying a campervan (fits with our common interests), providing space for DCs in each other’s houses so we can spend more time together. However, DP hasn’t bitten at any of these and is instead happy to continue as we are, seeing each other around once a week + holidays. Which leaves me feeling like we’re perpetually dating, and that I’m pushing for more than he wants to give, and so fundamentally incompatible.

As a final sanity-check, I’m looking for examples of how partners have shown commitment when set-ups are less straightforward than a nuclear family. How have your 2nd-time arounders stepped up to show you they’re serious about making a life together? Am I asking too much?

OP posts:
MaryJoLisa · 30/08/2022 12:27

I firmly in the happier single post divorce camp, so no first hand experience. However, I think you are being a bit ott. You don't want to marry or live together, so you are in a happy relationship, see each other weekly and holiday together. I fail to see how a camper van will make you more a couple. And a commitment ceremony is a bit wanky, I can't imagine anyone wants to do that. If you want more vehicles maybe you do need to find someone who is after the same as you, but I really don't know what this man could be doing given your parameters.

Oopsiedaisyy · 30/08/2022 15:26

In the early stages of a relationship where we are both in the position of young kids, separate homes and no plans to change things.

Long term commitment for me will be shared plans via holidays, expectations seeing each other a few times a week on a regular schedule, that sort of thing.

Don't want someone to move in!

Watchthesunrise · 30/08/2022 15:29

I think you're looking for affirmation not commitment.

Spritesobright · 30/08/2022 15:33

I understand this, totally. We've not moved in together for similar reasons.
We also considered buying a van that would fit all the kids but can't find an electric one that suits.
I've asked him to move closer to me (45 minute drive) as he only has his kids eow. He's agreed but it's going slowly as he can't sell his flat.
He's also supporting me financially, as he started earning a lot when my salary dropped so he's covering the difference.
We also considered rings or matching tattoos but it felt a bit contrived in the end.
I don't want to get married but I'd like him to want to marry me 😂

TheJourneyAhead · 30/08/2022 16:09

Recently was in this exact scenario and the relationship came to an end for the very reasons you describe. Firmly believed in keeping two separate homes, for kids due to practicalities/schooling etc, and likewise an hour apart and both on 50:50 more or less. Also was a 3.5 year long relationship.

I think these scenarios can work well, but probably work better if kids are of an age to be left alone at home for a couple of hours (mine are late primary, so not quite there.) Also, in these living apart together set ups, I think proximity would make a big difference, eg being able to pop round for a quick coffee/slightly more fluidity between the two homes.

In my case it became an every other weekend relationship which lasted 3.5 years until it wore us both down. It felt like a double life, with no cohesion. Felt like I was 2% of an actual person during those every other weekends, and then went back to my “real” life. It also felt odd that I was effectively alone and single for all areas of life in terms of planning and decisions, but was also with someone/but in a blink and you miss it kind of way. It also felt like the other party got the better end of the deal; a low risk and low commitment set up with regular companionship/sex but with none of the risks of a shared life, and none of the benefits of being a team.

So although it was dressed up as a lot more, it actually did feel like long term dating. The end was so easy in practical terms (nothing to administer, just one small carrier bag of clothes), but very difficult emotionally.

I also think it’s tough psychologically when there is no end in sight to this set up. Eg if my oldest is 10 and my youngest is 8 that’s a good 10 years or so before any real steps forward can be made.

It also felt like the relationship was there for all the good bits, not not for any of the tough bits. Someone gets sick / the car breaks down / need a second pair of hands for something - and I’d always be alone for those scenarios, despite being in a relationship on paper.

It wore me down over time and I didn’t feel a team but a long term dating partner. Stepping outside of my real life momentarily. The other element was that the limited spare time I do have (x3DC + full time busy job), ALL went on the “relationship” and this was to the detriment of building up other, important social links. So then you find yourself in a more vulnerable spot in terms of social support etc. Because the relationship inevitably eats up all the windows of spare time, being crammed in AROUND your real life rather than being PART of it.

I don’t think you’re being OTT OP, having been in this exact scenario I know how dissatisfying it begins to feel. It’s because you feel like a slice of a person not a whole person, and compartmentalising so neatly wears you down after a while.

Whatsthestoryboringglory · 30/08/2022 16:14

If you want long term commitment, have you discussed and agreed what will happen once the DC leave school? It sounds like you are both on the same page at the minute with a setup that works with your shared custody, it’s just that you want something in place of the usual “big” life commitments such as moving in or getting married because you can’t have those with the way life is currently for you both.

I guess DP shows his commitment to me by discussing the future. He talks about when we retire, about holidays we will go on in the future. He changes his plans to help me out if I need it. All his conversations are “we” rather than “me”. He integrated me in to his life even if we only saw each other once a week for the first few years. I think it’s a feeling rather than an event or gesture I can pinpoint really. Neither one of us want marriage or kids.

He’s my second very serious relationship after a very traditional but disfunctional long term setup. Previous partner made all the right moves on paper (proposal, let’s buy a house, said everything I wanted to hear) but in the end those things meant nothing. A ring was just a ring. Current DP is more non-conformist but 100% present in the relationship. He gives me confidence in us.

Could you both start saving towards something for the future that you commit to wanting together when the time is right? Deposit for a house together, once in a lifetime holiday? Pinpoint a shared life goal and ask him to work towards that for the future rather than now?

TheJourneyAhead · 30/08/2022 16:19

Agree with what @Whatsthestoryboringglory has just said : it’s a feeling, and attitude towards the solidity of the couple rather than an event or gesture. And that can be shown in small ways. It’s the looking at life as a “we” from a planning point of view, but words matching with actions.

As PP pointed out, some men will talk the talk re the proposal / shared house etc but it’s a form of future taking to just buy time in the relationship (in my experience in any case.)

So I think @Whatsthestoryboringglory has nailed it in terms of the commitment being a bit more subtle, as an approach to life that is integrated. Not two separate people running two completely separate machines, just meeting up here and there.

AubadeIsIt · 30/08/2022 16:25

I'm in a very similar set-up and understand your need. A close-distance relationship with kids involved is work sometimes; it requires effort and patience and you want to know if you're investing yourself for the right person. A PP made a great point about how your DP refers to the future and talks about your relationship. Is it ´me' or ´wé? Seeing each other once a week isn't a lot, especially if you've both got your kids 50/50 (unless not the same week?). Do your kids spend time together?

Albatrossing · 30/08/2022 16:26

Thanks, @TheJourneyAhead -- what you say about filling all the spare time with someone who's not 'in' your life, but to one side of it, is really helpful for me as i think about my own next-relationship-what's-happening stuff!

Tiger2018 · 30/08/2022 16:31

OP my relationship sounds similar to yours, however my DP and I are keen to plan what happens once the kids are moved out. This is 10 years away ish. Knowing we are committed to a shared future is what is important, although we do spend more time together than you do. Is this something that you could suggest? I share 50/50 with my ex and the times where the kids aren't with me, I stay at his so we see each other more.

CornishGem1975 · 30/08/2022 16:35

Neither of us were willing to wait around until the kids moved out (which was going to be a minimum of 15 years...) we didn't want to live separately, we wanted to be a 'proper' couple together. Now have our own DC and are happily married. Separate lives just wasn't for us.

AubadeIsIt · 30/08/2022 17:00

CornishGem1975 · 30/08/2022 16:35

Neither of us were willing to wait around until the kids moved out (which was going to be a minimum of 15 years...) we didn't want to live separately, we wanted to be a 'proper' couple together. Now have our own DC and are happily married. Separate lives just wasn't for us.

Just out of curiosity, what happened with the pre-existing kids?😅

gogohmm · 30/08/2022 17:12

I moved in with dp after a few weeks Grin

Our kids are all over 18 so less issues then many people here.

We haven't discussed marriage because one of us may have not got round to getting divorced, might be meBlush

TheJourneyAhead · 30/08/2022 17:25

@Albatrossing also I realised my DP was not my social support, but was happy to sap all my time (the little fragments of spare time), which was to the cost of other social outlets/friendships etc. So yes, investing in the right networks is important too. I realised I was trying to cram a relationship around my life, and it felt like just one more thing to have to be on top of, and as a single parent of 3DC and FT work, unless there was some kind of team approach to life, the long term dating / low commitment model just creates resentment.

Iheartbeagles · 30/08/2022 17:48

This is a super useful thread. Thanks for the thoughtful contributions. I think I feel a lot of similar things in my relationship with my dp - as you said op, the more traditional milestones aren’t necessarily available and there’s a feeling of the relationship being apart from the rest of life. There’s definitely some resentment building up.

TheJourneyAhead · 30/08/2022 18:21

OP, I find when you’re in the situation you find yourself in - eg weighing things up, analysing them, looking at costs vs benefits, it can be really useful to write things down. To methodically work through them.

It can help to create some detachment and a be a little bit transactional about who is benefitting most from this set up / who is more exposed by it.

I realised in my scenario, ex DP wanted all the good parts of a relationship, but none of the reality of shared lives; and in return, I felt I got many of the negative parts of a relationship, whilst actually still facing life alone.

I’d lie awake at night and worry about the future with the mindset of a single woman.

One Friday night I was sat there stationery in six lanes of traffic doing the usual every other weekend trip, and I just thought to myself, WHY am I doing this, for a man who is not prepared to make a life for me. Why am I, after an incredibly busy and long/stressful week sitting there for 1.5 hours worth of hellish traffic, literally delivering myself to a man, who has it all tidily ring-fenced and separate, in his favour. None of the mess or risk of being a team. I’m not trying to project onto your situ at all, as yours may be very different, only sharing my thought processes at the time of weighing things up in case they are helpful.

mscampbelle · 30/08/2022 18:51

This thread is so timely for me.
I've just got out of a shallow/FWB/fb (no idea what to call it!) because I went from feeling I was having it all, no ties and all the fun to feeling utterly used.

18 months later and it became really boring, he had mental health issues and I became his support/sounding board and although we still had a nice sex life, I need someone to dream with and picture a future together, it's no fun always watching them walk out the door. I would have supported him more if I felt he was worth the investment- but I knew he had no investment in me.

So many of the posts on this thread really resonate with me.
The fact is I was getting less and less out of the arrangement, I never moved up the ranks in his list of priorities, and he took lots of my spare time and energy - things I need to help me build my future (especially if I am going to be alone).

I don't want to get married again, but I do want someone to dream with and feel I had a partner.

eztiger · 30/08/2022 19:04

This totally resonates with me. It feels like I have to switch mode from ‘mum’ to ‘girlfriend’ and back again at the click of a button. I find it so tough to get my head around - nothing seems to last beyond the honeymoon stage because how do you even conduct a relationship when it’s confined to the occasional weekend and squeezed in around your real life

eztiger · 30/08/2022 19:06

And I totally agree that it steals all the time from everything else I want to do - see friends, family, do things alone. After a while, it gets totally claustrophobic

toksvig · 30/08/2022 19:23

Thanks for empathy and understanding, all. Good to hear others’ stories. I really feel I'm leading a double life – our time together is so good, but detached from the nuts and bolts of real life.

@TheJourneyAhead I agree about the proximity. Popping round for a coffee, borrow a hammer, pop into work, etc. would really help us to integrate. It’s that mundane stuff I actually really miss. It’s the rough as well as the smooth that makes a team. We’re simply not able to be there if the other is ill (though I try to), or needs a lift somewhere, etc. I’ve isolated with Covid alone, I’ve dealt with car prangs alone, been on group holidays alone, been on crutches alone. I’m totally capable of doing all that, but it just makes me sad and lonely that my DP can’t be a true partner at those times.

Longer term, I feel completely single re my mortgage, financing my retirement, etc., even though ostensibly I’m in a serious relationship. DP says that as we plan to be financially independent and if we then pitch in, that will only be a bonus. But it’s all bit hand-wavy to me. Also what @TheJourneyAhead said about the reflecting on the imbalance in traffic jams – so familiar! The relationship is pretty much all on his terms. His boundaries are fixed.

We sometimes talks of the masterplan once kids have left (at least 10 years away) but deep down it feels like pie in the sky as there’s nothing concrete to anchor it to. Building / saving for something is a nice idea, but again these ideas never get off the ground. It's always me who initiates these discussions about future plans, and DP’s default perspective is ‘I’ rather than ‘we’. I'm pretty drained by it.

@whatsthestory, your set up is heartening, and helpful in seeing that it’s the attitude and enthusiasm as much as the concrete gestures (I guess that's the affirmation that @Watchthesunrise wisely points out, and which is lacking). Anyhow, good to know it doesn’t have to be this way. Likewise @Tiger2018. We’ve tried a few ways of facilitating more time together but we often slip back due to complicated logistics with FT work / travel / kids.

We hang out as 2 families a few times a year, and have had some good holidays, But even then, it feels like two parallel groups rather than being truly integrated, though I really enjoy taking his kids out without him, and will miss them a lot.

I get (and am often glad) that we’re not on the traditional relationship escalator, but @Spritesobright I’ve said many times I want DP to want to marry me!

If he was a shitbag, this would be easy. It’ll be hard to end things with such a clever, funny, kind, feminist, attractive man and some of the best sex I’ve ever had. But I’m increasingly unhappy with the compromise, with being a girlfriend, and am seeing very little potential of change.

OP posts:
Whatsthestoryboringglory · 30/08/2022 19:56

If he was a shitbag, this would be easy. It’ll be hard to end things with such a clever, funny, kind, feminist, attractive man and some of the best sex I’ve ever had. But I’m increasingly unhappy with the compromise, with being a girlfriend, and am seeing very little potential of change.

It just sounds like this isn’t working for you, and at the end of the day that’s the thing. You’ve got to be with people who make you happy and enhance your already good life. If he’s still thinking like “I” rather than “we” after this long, that probably won’t ever change. It shouldn’t always be on his terms. His boundaries need to accommodate yours, otherwise it’s just two people bumping against each other occasionally.

It’s a hell of a lot easier when they’re obvious dickheads, I agree.

TheJourneyAhead · 30/08/2022 22:08

Such a useful sounding board of a thread.

It’s funny, as for many years I’ve been such a huge advocate of the non blended route. The LAT (living apart together) model, when there’s kids on both sides. I was deeply against the idea of full blending. But - my experience of the other extreme, the fully segregated model, has left a rather bitter and lonely taste in my mouth. So now, not so sure.

As @eztiger describes, there’s this really jarring and abrupt switch in roles: mum, employee, girlfriend - always “owing” time to other people, but never truly reaching cohesion. Compartmentalising like that is very draining. My ex DP however seemed to do it seamlessly. I, however, found it odd to be all loved up for an intense 48 hours and then suddenly down to very little contact and the usual hustle and bustle of my normal life.

In the end, I couldn’t reconcile the fact that he was ok to make the inner compromise of seeing each-other very little, because after all resourcing a family as a single mother takes a lot of time and work and energy, than resource ourselves together as a true partnership, and thus have more time together. I felt he was ok to string it out for as long as he could, take what he could, for as long as I was compliant with the set up. Happy to take the “hit” on time, so long as he protected and ring fenced his life from any type of real sharing. That was the “deal” despite many sugary words and notions to the contrary. In the end, it all came down to a single carrier bag (not even full). He’d been very very careful to keep things separate, but fed me a lot of empty promises. When it came down to me pushing for real sharing, the “deal” fell apart. Don’t want to come across as massively cynical and transactional about it all, but in my experience, men won’t rock the status quo and will happily bumble along in a comfortable routine that sees them risk free with regular sex/companionship, until the woman speaks up.

Totally understand what PP says re if you’re building a future as a lone entity, that puts a totally different spin on your time. I often have to catch up with work on weekends. Ex DP would rather that I do that, than resource ourselves as a couple, e.g two is a stronger team than one, and shared resourcing would mean more time together. He wasn’t prepared for that, but dressed the deal up as a lot more than it was (glorified dating long term).

I very much understand what you’re referring to OP re the nuts and bolts of day to day life; the details, the mundane stuff, the little glitches and errands and the knowing that that person is “your person” as well as your next of kin / emergency contact etc. With geographic distance also thrown in, if you’re following this model, it just becomes impossible. I have been a single parent for 8 years, and was alone with 3DC under 3, and have moved house and navigated so much - alone - so it’s not a question of needing that person, it’s a question of wondering why they are ok to simply by a background observer on the sidelines of your life. Sort of standing in the shadows, watching on. Not really pitching in.

During covid, my ex DP was in a bubble with his ex (his kid’s mother) and my kids dad was in a bubble with his wife. I remember thinking: who is my bubble?! Who is my next of kin? etc And this model doesn’t give you that assurance.

It becomes disjointed and unsatisfactory as over time it feels the costs outweigh the benefits and I started to resent that when I needed support, I neither had DP, nor did the relationship enable me the time to build up networks (new area so don’t have many connections.) It was all in his favour. And as I said, most men won’t speak up, or have the integrity to look at it in real practical terms: what it is costing you, in multiple ways, and the ways it leaves you exposed.

These relationships take up space in your life, without actually adding much tangible to them. I realised that life would be no different if I was single, except I’d have more time for self restoration and the real and long term people (friends and family).

Totally know what you mean OP re the pie in the sky notions of long term plans. These are usually carefully crafted to disengage from anything close to reality. That was my experience in any case. I lived through very similar. When it came to anything concrete, he flaked out. He probably hadn’t even admitted to himself what the relationship was, but I was under no doubt in the end that he was in it for what benefitted him, for as long as he could, carefully keeping things as segregated as possible and throwing in the odd sweetener here and there (usually of no substance.)

It is not a set up I’d want for my daughter. It’s hard to break away, I get that. I said the same exact words that you have voiced OP; it would be so easy to walk away if he was simply a bastard. However, detach a bit from your emotions and look at it purely in terms of who it is serving more. Also look closely at words and actions not matching. Last thing you need is a lonely marriage experience, through this pseudo relationship model, without any of the benefits of actual partnership.

Wanttobeanastronaut · 30/08/2022 22:52

This thread is really interesting. I'm totally recognising the situation @TheJourneyAhead describes as one I'm currently in, although I live with my DP and we have fully blended our kids (with both good and bad results). But I've noticed the scales are firmly tipped in his favour, having slowly gone that way over the last few years, and now I'm not comfortable with it.

'We don't need to be married to be happy' is a line I hear regularly, despite never asking for marriage. But this feels like a marriage with all the compromise and none of the financial and legal security.

Almostthere1 · 31/08/2022 07:46

I was in the ‘forever dating’ scenario for over 5 years. Despite him declaring that he wants to blend our lives more and making some decisions towards it, my gut feeling was telling me that something is missing. It was that felt sense that he doesn’t really see us a ‘us’.
Such set up usually benefits men more: no financial obligations, fun times only, sex & all the nurturing from the female partner.
Trust your instincts, look at the facts, ask yourself: does this relationship feel like a unity? Do we have the same relationship needs? Are we making progress towards the jointly desired future NOW or is it always in the planning stage?
Some men are just satisfied with the forever dating scenario; for others, the current partner is just a placeholder until someone more suitable comes along. Only a few really want a true partnership.

Angustiada · 31/08/2022 07:59

This is such an interesting read and really helps me to understand how I feel. OP you're definitely not alone!
I've been with my BF for 2 years now. I have 2 kids (primary), he has none. He lives a 5/10 min drive away. I'm RP for the kids so only get EOW and one night a week to myself..I also work FT.
It's getting to the point where I just don't have time for it all. All my spare time is spent with him and I miss seeing friends or having time just for me but then I feel we have so little time together I can't really skip any days of that makes sense.
He'd love to move things along, talks about us being a team but I don't feel it's fair on my kids. Think I need to prepare to be single for the next 10 years!!