Post-divorce relationships: How have your partners shown long-term commitment?

[toksvig]

I’m 3.5 years into a relationship with a great guy, both post-divorce, both 50/50 residency with similarly school-aged kids, living apart together. Sadly, I think I’m coming to the end of the line because it’s becoming increasingly apparent that DP can’t offer what I want. I don’t want remarriage (too much financial risk) or cohabitation while the kids are still at school (we live an hour apart) but I do want some firmer plans for our future life together.

I’ve raised various ideas, e.g. a commitment ceremony, a ring, buying a campervan (fits with our common interests), providing space for DCs in each other’s houses so we can spend more time together. However, DP hasn’t bitten at any of these and is instead happy to continue as we are, seeing each other around once a week + holidays. Which leaves me feeling like we’re perpetually dating, and that I’m pushing for more than he wants to give, and so fundamentally incompatible.

As a final sanity-check, I’m looking for examples of how partners have shown commitment when set-ups are less straightforward than a nuclear family. How have your 2nd-time arounders stepped up to show you they’re serious about making a life together? Am I asking too much?

In your situation it was probably the right thing to do, OP. He had the opportunity yesterday morning during your talk to show a greater, demonstrable level of commitment, and unfortunately he did not seize it.

”Together Apart” relationships can be great, I am in a successful one, but both parties need to be on the same page about the future.

Glad you posted back and agree with others you've been brave in honouring yourself and your needs.
You gave him ample opportunity to meet you in future plans but his lack of willingness to do so is really telling.
I have been thinking about this thread a lot and making links to my own situation.
It's helped me to feel entitled to ask him to move closer as one of the things I need in terms of support.

Thank you for this brilliant thread which has allowed so much rigorous questioning of the female/male dynamic in LAT relationships.

This. And thanks for the update. Not much more to add but hope you're ok, and it's given me food for thought.

I'm in a similar position myself - been in a LAT 'situationship' with DP for 4 years now. Took the first two years for DP to commit to a proper relationship. Thankfully we only live 10 minutes apart which makes things a bit easier, although we often only get to see each other once a fortnight.

We both agree that blending wouldn't be practical (at best) - we have 5 kids between us, aged 7 to 12. Would necessitate school changes and all sorts. And DP's kids are quite challenging, both with ADHD and autism. And finding a big enough house wouldn't be easy either - I'm mortgaged and DP is in council rented (which she doesn't want to give up, understandably).

So we're both happy with the status quo for now, but I'd like to think we're aiming for something together long term. Probably in 10 years, when the kids are just about all grown up. I've made the odd remark about that, dropped a few suggestions, but I'm a bit off put that DP isn't showing any mutual interest in that. At one point she commented how she couldn't ever imagine her kids living independently as adults. Also neither DP nor her ex have made any moves towards getting legally divorced, despite being apart for 7 years. It's a bit like a Mexican stand off with both of them being too stubborn to get the ball rolling. It should be a straightforward divorce as there's nor marital assets to argue over.

Everything just leaves me wondering if DP has any real long term intentions for our relationship, or if it's just a convenience thing that suits our circumstances right now, without wanting it to ever progress into living together. Or if she's just a bit hesitant/avoidant after having a few previous relationships turn sour (but then we've all experienced that). I would hate to spend the next 10 years waiting to move to the next stage and then get dumped instead!

Thanks for empathy and cheerleading, all. I'm so glad it's empowering those of you in similar situations. @TheJourneyAhead 's tip to analyse the benefits for each party is something I'll take forward if and when I get into another relationship further down the line. It really crystallised my thinking and helped me to structure my discussions rationally.

Still early days, but today I'm feeling suitably brave, badass, and boundaried. But also verrry tired.

Ex-DP has asked me to reconsider, but doesn't seem to have reconsidered his own offer. So I've conveyed how sorry I am that we couldn't find a way, and let him know that I won't be in touch from this point. NC feels like the only way.

Sorry to hear of the imbalance @cheshirebloke. I've learned from pro-LAT groups that for some, that arrangement is perfect, enviable, a revolution, etc etc. All true, but only if each party is on the same page. That balance is quite precarious. If future plans don't align, or (as in my case), if the future just doesn't even figure for one party, things get very tricky and anxiety-inducing. My advice is to have the conversation and go from there..

I live with DD, dating DH for 3 years, no plans to move in together or to marry. I guess we now discuss the future where we absolutely didn’t for the first 2 years. We spend a portion of most weekends together (a bigger portion/ all on my child free weekends). We did a holiday with my DD this summer and have booked a Xmas weekend away and a holiday next year for just us. We are more involved with each other’s wider families - just the odd weekend meal normally but he’s coming to a family event with my parents , sister and her kids soon which is new. We’ve also started seriously discussing what happens when DD leaves home (she’s nearly 12). I guess he has just gradually become a fixed point in my life and me in his. When I needed some medical treatment he took me, when he needed an emergency life I was his first call. This is ok for me.

Thanks a lot for this thread - really interesting

I was made to feel so guilty for leaving a four year relationship similar to those described above. He said I was 'the love of his life', and we were 'soul mates' and that I'd never find anyone who loved me like he did. He made me feel almost greedy for wanting more! It took a lot of strength for me to leave. I was in my forties, and knew I'd be single for the rest of my life, but just felt like he was having his cake and eating it, and I was better off on my own than getting the crumbs from his table. I know this type of relationship works for some, but I found it deeply damaging in the end. For those of you in a similar boat, I thought you'd like to know that I went on to meet a wonderful man. We did wait a couple of years for our youngsters to leave home, but living together was always the goal and we've now been happily married for several years! So, to the OP, I would say give yourself a chance, and walk away!

Such a great thread, thank you! Two things are going round in my mind reading it, first the article by the feminist philosopher Marilyn Frey about how men kind of parasitically feed off the love and care of women and just very pragmatically get that in whatever way they can. Depressing stuff but it was an amazing article! Of course it often cuts both ways. Second, the difficulties of re-making or re entering a long term relationship when you're divorced with kids and they are too. Like other posters have said, the classic relationship path of clear signs of commitment, then the ring, then the wedding, then kids, are not available anymore often. And yet I (at least) do have that yearning for something! You want some kind of fairytale but there isn't an obvious one. Have been with DP for 2.5 years, he lives 2 hours away, we both have kids, see each other religiously every other weekend and for holidays. He is very much in love with me and really there, e.g. if I have an issue or need something he always makes time. However his son is only 13, splits time between him and the mum, so unlikely we would live together before at least 4 years down the line. I don't feel like he is future faking and we are getting ever closer but like another poster said I still feel alone in those decisions, alone in my life direction, in the way you don't when you're married. Although that also cuts both ways as you can then be quite limited by the other person. Very good hearing experiences of people in the same situation!

Frye not Frey

@choixduroi do you have a link to the article by Marilyn Frye? Sounds interesting!

In tears reading this thread as it reflects the immense emotional wrench I’m currently experiencing. With BF for three years, friends for a couple of years before that, each have children from previous relationships. Youngest (his) just turned 7.
Things have been going well, we spend a lot of time together, shared time with each set of kids / all together / alone, have done Christmas and two summer holidays ‘blended’. Really starting to feel an imbalance in our viewpoints, though. I’m really open and demonstrative about how I feel - BF is included in all my extended family stuff and my DD (10) refers to him as ‘like a stepdad’. BF seems to compartmentalise much more, “doesn’t think” to share all the little everyday details couples usually talk about and doesn’t discuss future plans. His DS refers to me as ‘dad’s friend’.
It’s becoming apparent that I need to end things but I’m devastated and will miss him so much

@asquideatingdough I was also interested - Googled and found this:-
www.tumblr.com/tagged/marilyn%20frye?sort=top
References further reading.

I've read through this thread. I've found it an interesting read.

I'm on the other side of the fence. Four years separated from long term partner with kids from the marriage. No desire to have more kids.

I've not had a relationship lasting more than about 6 months mainly of my own choosing. I have kids every other weekend type arrangement and I'm of the view that given I've not introduced anyone to the kids in the last 4 years I will probably leave it about another 3 or 4 until my younger two are at secondary school age.

I'll admit to being a bit guilty of some of the behaviours mentioned on this thread but not in a malicious way.

I need my own place for the kids and have managed to buy again. I wouldn't put myself at the same risk as what happened in my marriage and having being bitten so to speak would make sure I had a contingency should a future relationship breakdown.

Through dating I've come to the conclusion I'd probably want a relationship 'lite' for the next few years (if at all). Then look to settle into something more serious perhaps late 40s when the younger kids are mid teens at least

I do sympathise but I'm not sure there really is an answer.

www.feministes-radicales.org/2012/07/31/some-reflections-on-separatism-and-power-marilyn-frye/ - have to scroll a bit to get to the juicy part :)

The bit that got me was: 'The ministrations of women, be they willing or unwilling, free or paid for, are what restore in men the strength, will and confidence to go on with what they call living.'

Just thought I'd chip in with my own experience of a LAT relationship. My DP and I are 11yrs in - we met when my youngest DD was 6 (both f/t parents with him 2 me 3 kids) We currently live 60 miles apart and once the relationship became serious have been on the same page in terms of the how and when we would live together. Neither of us could see a way to blend at an early stage and he has always made it clear that he would wait until I'm ready. Its been hard at times and I can identify with much of what OP and other posters have said about feeling single but with none of the benefits. We have both felt like we have lived a half life for over a decade now.

We did nearly split about 5 years ago but that was because of a failed attempt to try and blend families (it never got to the moving stage) and I did re-examine whether the relationship could stand another 5 years apart.

So now I am in the almost unbelievable (for me after so long) situation where my youngest DD has just left to start university and I am selling my house to move to be with DP. I'm not under any illusion that living together after so long won't have its difficulties but I have come to the conclusion that the benefits far far outweigh any negatives.

Going back to the OPs question, there wasn't really ever a time when we haven't been fully committed to eachother despite the obvious compromises that a LAT relationship brings. We did get engaged about 4 years in and that did give us some sense of belonging but marriage is probably still a few years away for us.

I'm in similar circumstances, although we live quite near each other (10 minute drive). My DP doesn't seem particularly interested in any sort of commitment - not now, nor even talking about a future together after the kids have flown the nests.

We see each other EOW and holiday together a couple of times a year, but we could easily do more stuff all together with our kids (who mostly all get on great), eg meet up for dinner during the week etc, but dp doesn't seem interested in anything more than weekend company. We message constantly, so it does kind of feel like we're close even when not physically together, but that often feels a bit at arms length.

DP never comes to my house, so I always have to go there to spend time together, and I often seem to be a bit of an afterthought - DP makes plans for herself, and then when I suggest something it's a case of fitting in, whereas I consider and consult DP before making plans and try to plan around her. It is all starting to feel like a bit like a situationship of convenience, like I'm an optional extra just filling a gap in dp's rota.

I think in many cases it's a case of once bitten, twice shy, and a lot of people (women especially), are wary of committing fully again after their first marriage breaks down (I'm sure everyone thinks it's going to be together forever when they get married?) My DP doesn't even seem interested in divorcing her ex though, despite them having little (actually nothing) to fight over - no marital assets, child contact already agreed.

The commitment ceremony sounds like an awful idea - like getting married without any substance, or like a car without an engine. Looks nice, but pretty useless.

I'm reading this thread with great interest because I can see similar outcome à for me and DP. We have been together for a bit more than a year and it's wonderful. We are both post divorce from v difficult people and feel like we have found The One in each other. We have 6 children between us, age 8 to early 20s. We live 10 minutes apart and our children get along well and we both like the other's families. Everything is going swimmingly.

However, I am very wary of what may happen a few years in when the glow fades. We are lucky to each own our own homes but neither are big enough to have everyone. We are attached to them and will never sell. So realistically we won't live together for at least 4 -5 years, when our middle ones go off to uni (presuming they do!)This seems like a very long time- although I am also v wary about the pitfalls of living with another person. If he leaves his towel on the floor once a week when he stays over, that is v different to a towel on the floor every day. My ex made me do almost everything in our marriage so I'm hyper sensitive to being taken advantage of again.

At the moment I think the only thing to do is try to establish good communication. Luckily we are on the same page in terms of eventual goals and we both try hard to discuss everything rather than repressing and letting resentment grow.

Does anyone have any suggestions for books on the topic of successful second relationships in mid life?

I’ve also been reading with a lot of interest as lots of you have been able to put into words what I struggle to articulate. I’ve had a few post divorce relationships and I always end up feeling a sense of dissatisfaction and not being valued enough. Friends tell me to enjoy it for what it is but I end up feeling empty and unhappy. I always think it’s me being too demanding but maybe I’m not asking anything unreasonable, it’s just not very realistic as not many men are able or willing to offer what I need.

i do hope we all find some sense of peace with it eventually though.

This thread just gets richer and richer, it's all so useful. Lots of different experiences but the common thread is the need for both partners show equal enthusiastic for the present and future relationship. Much easier said than done, especially with the responsibilities of kids, homes, jobs, etc thrown in. Early days for me, but being alone sure beats feeling lonely or lumbered within a relationship.

@choixduroi thanks for the reading, I'd not heard of Marilyn Frye before. Symbiosis sure sounds a lot better than parasitism.

@asquideatingdough I haven't come across such a book. Maybe we should propose one :) You could try Gahran's 'Stepping off the Relationship Escalator' for a look at unconventional relationships. Though lots of it focuses on nonmonogamy.

So much rings true for me in this post, and I too am nearing ‘crunch time’, I think.
I’ve gotten myself over invested - want to share my life with him properly, he is happy as is. We don’t talk about the future, still make arrangements day by day, he still wants to be ‘invited’ to stay over each time. I’ve included him in wider family events, etc - I’ve met his parents twice in four years. My kids see him as a fixture, his DS refers to me as ‘his dad’s friend’. BF still refers to he and his ex-wife as ‘we’ and I am basically invisible in his life outside of us - he is so compartmentalised about things! We were talking this evening about ‘bucket list’ types things and places we’d like to travel. Not once was there a sense that he thinks about us doing any of those things together. I’m picking fault but really trying to make it easier on myself to make a decision I don’t want to. I’m so sad, but know this relationship won’t lead to happiness either, in the end. How do people do this??

Thank you everyone for your honesty on what has and hasn’t worked for you in this kind of relationship.
I’m a year separated with a 3 and 5 year old so when I start dating this will be what my relationship looks like. I’ve been looking forward to a more unusual setup than the move in/marry/kids allowing for a partner to really be for ME rather than the daily practicalities. But, reading the experiences of you all have opened my eyes to some parts of that kind of setup that aren’t ideal and given me lots to think about.

Sorry but I think your expectations are ridiculous if you have both agreed to live apart. Can’t you be happy as you are? As a long term girlfriend?
Blending families or making space for each other’s children is daft when you don’t share a home.
Why are you suddenly feeling insecure when this set up actually works for you both and your respective children. You’ve got it great… own space, happy children in your own home, financial independence and ability to chill in your own house without someone else’s children invading your space. I think you’d be mad to change things or even end things with the guy.