Dating Thread 232 - Loving Ourselves First

[SortingItOut]

The Rules:

1.The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.

1. Develop a thick skin.
2. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
3. It's all BS until it actually happens.
4. Trust your gut instinct.
5. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
6. Know your worth.
7. If it's not fun, stop.
8. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item.

Are you really mates or…… occasionally he’s got in touch to see if you’re available and you’ve not pursued?

I do hate this bit and don’t get me wrong - I’m terrible at feeling needy and angsty in this situation. But I am learning that when they’re really keen or their intentions are straightforward, my anxiety disappears. My last iron almost made me ill with anxiety (I don’t blame him per se but my reaction to his behaviour which was a bit inconsistent because lovely as he is and as much as he likes me, he’s not up for romantic/deepening connection and I was).

Hello All,
quick question regarding family dynamics if I may.
I had call on Monday morning from a member of my extended family who was in money trouble, bailiffs on the door step etc she has a new baby as well.
anyhow, long story short I lent her money to pay the debt, at what point do I raise the question of how she is going to repay me ?

@ibelieveinmirrorballs agree with all you’ve written thanks.
mad for mates..well we know a lot of mutual people, there was a LOT to catch up on and it felt so natural..however I don’t know him do I so maybe it was a friends with benefits thing for him and some booze talking?!
you’re right though, you have to have the same person in terms of communication or it can make anxiety rise. Maybe he’s waiting for me to ask to see him again seeing as he made the first move? He was full of compliments..maybe I misread it!

@MTWTF41 Personally I absolutely would not ask him and wouldn't fall into the 'but he made the first move' way of thinking. No - if he wants to do it again, let him make it clear that's what he wants, as that way you won't have to second guess anything. If he values getting to know you at all, he's not going to be put off by having to ask as it'll be worth it in his mind. It doesn't sound as though you've given any indication that you wouldn't be up for seeing him again.

@HowlongWillThisTakeNow that was kind of you. I think I'd ask as soon as was reasonable once the crisis situation was over with and wouldn't want to leave it too long.

@ibelieveinmirrorballs agreed. He’s off today which makes it feel a bit worse but hey!

HowlongWillThisTakeNow

if you can give her what you can afford to probably to NOT get paid back

Mr Sleazy Is growing on me. He’s unashamed, and I feel I know what I’m getting. And he’s obeying my rules 😱 Coffee tomorrow should be interesting

Couple of other irons in the early chat so feeling quite chilled

@ibelieveinmirrorballs I feel your pain with an iron almost making you ill with anxiety. My reaction to the behaviour of Mr Train has almost broken me. I know that sounds dramatic, but in the middle of it I didn't recognise myself. I'm not out of it now, and still feel wounded from it all. It's only been six months but I feel as though it's changed me for the worse in a way no other relationship has.

@Daisysunset I'm sorry you're feeling it too. I can say looking back (my anxiety unfolded in about December, we'd started seeing each other in October and it finished early Feb) that the good thing about it all was it was the catalyst for starting to see a therapist and the past few months have seen major change in my perspective.

It could be looking back that you recognise this as a pivotal point for you too.

If you're still feeling anxious and unwell, can you try something like beta blockers? They were a revelation for me and helped me get through a period where it was affecting my ability to focus at work (I have a demanding career and the stress of knowing it was affected by these emotionally destabilising events made things so much worse and as though perhaps I couldn't be trusted to have relationships at all). Propranolol is non-addictive and can be taken as and when you feel like you need a stress response interrupting, so nowhere near as onerous as starting to take anti-depressants.

There's nothing wrong with you, it might just turn out that you need the pattern of choosing emotionally unavailable men interrupting in much the same way, and as soon as you do that the anxiety dissipates. (Touch wood, it's early days for me but no anxiety at all this time around which must mean something.)

I'm hoping it's a pivotal point too, @ibelieveinmirrorballs - I do hope I'll eventually be able to look back on this as the point I hit rock bottom in what I accept in relationships. He's not a bad person - he just seems to have no emotional depth or awareness and I need that to feel fulfilled.

He's away at the moment and texting has been limited, so I feel like I'm automatically gradually distancing myself. And this thread helps - I see the notifications pop up up when I'm at work so even if I can't reply, I feel that little buzz that there's something to read even if it's not a message from him.

Fascinating observations with MrM these days (seem to have rebadged him as occasional lover while also happily developing feelings for MrNice in a romantic way). It's all been open with lots of conversation about what's happening with both parties. I feel no romantic attachment to MrM but he still makes me laugh massively and I fancy him a lot. He's given me some academic advice on a couple of work projects and I am enjoying his friendship. I know he has at least one other FWB but is responsible and respectful. I do not feel as though this is impinging on MrNice, with whom I had a really lovely weekend.

But I'm very new to the etiquette of it all, have never had any sort of open relationship before, and it all feels too good to be true. Friends seem suspicious of it, as though it couldn't possibly be a good thing, that it couldn't possibly not end in disaster. Am I being naive? (Probably!)

MrM has never been happier or more engaged in terms of how we communicate. As an emotionally unavailable type the fact that I now clearly have a boyfriend seems to have freed him up to feel able to show his feelings more because he feels secure in the knowledge I won't fall in love with him. It is really interesting to me... I have never seen this and have been so used to being the one wanting more and feeling like I don't get enough.

That's really interesting @ibelieveinmirrorballs - I don't know if I'm capable of that, but I wish I was. I just catch feelings when I'm intimate with anyone.

It's great that this suits you all so well. Mr Train is emotionally unavailable, but I know for a fact there is no way he would ever contemplate an open relationship of any sort. I see that it takes the pressure off Mr M and it's great that he's changed for the better as a result of this.

I have toyed with Fab so I just get a FB but I have to have that connection I think, to really enjoy sex.

Wouldn't it be great to pick and choose the best of people and make your perfect man...

GoldenMirror

good luck with the sex date turned coffee !

I had something similar but I 100% bailed
but he was, in his way , a nice guy and I was curious to meet him

its going to be an interesting experience whatever happens
have fun

Daisysunset

sorry I had to giggle when you said that he’s not open for an open relationship

yeah . Funny that 😂
does he need to know

I don’t have all the answers @Daisysunset … BUT am starting to think anyone who can’t give you as much as you need emotionally shouldn’t have the right to exclusivity. I mean, why should they get that from us if they can’t dive in emotionally?

So you’ve committed to a situation that is destined to leave you wanting.

I have only discovered this accidentally as like you always believed intimacy led to feelings and I couldn’t imagine myself wanting to have sex with someone without that connection. I looked at Fab but found the pictures of wall to wall cock like a nightmarish masked ball - I want to see peoples faces, not their shaved genitals. Or at least, can I see their faces and then if I must, their shaved genitals later 😆

Evening all, hope your week is going well. So I'm quite proud of myself that I've managed to get through today without making any contact. I haven't heard from him since Sunday morning and even though it's his birthday today I thought it best to just not contact. Today was the first day I felt a wee pang of sadness but managing ok. We have a family dinner at the weekend so hopefully I get through the next few days ok.

@Thisisworsethananticpated that’s exactly how I feel, but I shall report!

In other news, been chatting to two irons, Mr Muso and Mr Cockney. Very weirdly have clicked with Mr Cockney, though should be much more with Mr Muso. Who knows, it’s all fun!

Well done @LuckyLinda3 , be proud of yourself. No contact really is the only way to do it, but it must have been a dilemma with his birthday today, so a very different day to what you'd originally planned

@Daisysunset aw thank you. Yeah it definitely was is right. I looked at his gift so many times but i just think for now I have to let the dust settle. He was meant to attend our family dinner this weekend and meet the rest of my family and then we had a birthday party of one of his colleagues to attend also. Sad how quickly things can change. Friends think he will make contact again but I don't. In the meantime I'm just getting on with it.

anyone who can’t give you as much as you need emotionally shouldn’t have the right to exclusivity. I mean, why should they get that from us if they can’t dive in emotionally?
@ibelieveinmirrorballs nailed it here.
I think we will be ready to be fully exclusive when we are 100% sure

@LuckyLinda3 … well done you. stay nice and strong

I’ve noticed after last night fumble with Mr O that he’s pensive. He’s thinking… he answers my messages the moment I ping him but he’s thinking
im glad I’m away a few days so we let air go through
Mr A noticed I am not that responsive
Mr Ex all over the place honestly
I think this is complicated but I’m not willing to stop until I know more

@Mila14 MrA noticed that YOU'RE thinking... I like that saying 'let the air go through'.... just what is needed by the sounds of it. Have a great few days away. I'm off tomorrow morning with the DC and cannot wait.

Re the exclusivity thing, I have always thought that I just 'happen' to get attached to people when I get intimate with them, but am starting to see that it's a pattern of idealisation - start dating someone, lose interest in chatting to others very early on, start slightly fixating, put pressure on someone I basically hardly know to be exactly what I'm looking for and yearn for them to feel the same, want them to want to be exclusive because then that would be a 'sign' they feel the same way, etc etc. And continue to do that with someone who is clearly emotionally unavailable - it's never going to work and it's too much pressure on one person to be this perfect partner I think I'm looking for.

@Daisysunset agree with @Thisisworsethananticpated in that of course MrTrain isn't going to want it - he's got the exclusivity he wants without having to give emotionally... it's a good set up for him.

@LuckyLinda3 kudos to you for not making contact - I think that is phenomenally impressive given it was his birthday. Also definitely think it was the right thing to do. It's horrible when you sense they won't get in touch either, with MrM we didn't speak for a month after our horrible 'ending it' chat/argument and what kept me going with that was knowing there really was nothing more to say unless he was going to have a change of mind (and heart, and brain, frankly ) and that didn't happen.