How do I live with a very private partner?

[Franklyfrost]

I’ve been going to couples therapy and recently had a session where my partner couldn’t turn up. In this session the therapist pointed out that my dp was extremely private. I’ve realised that she’s right.

The main problem we were having is that I would feel unhappy about something, communicate this to dp and he would say the problem was not what I thought it was but my reaction to it. For example, he turned up 7 hours late from a bike ride with friends without letting me know. This left me looking after the kids all Sunday long. The problem for him is me taking issue with this rather than his failure to inform me of his change of plans. His take on what he wants from our relationship is ‘I ask you for nothing and you ask me for nothing’.

I’m interested in replacing the word ‘a-hole’ with the word ‘private’ in my thoughts about dp. With the bike ride example he would find it intrusive to have to tell me he’d be home later, he never tells me where he’s going when he goes out or when he’ll be home from work, he never communicates how he feels, yesterday he took offence at the insurance company asking why he didn’t want to renew his policy (he refused to answer even if the poor call handler just needed to tick a box), also yesterday he was outraged that his father asked him to bring a very minor, valueless item he needed for a repair when he was going round to visit his parents because it was an imposition on his autonomy.

He is intensely, perhaps pathologically, private. He doesn’t want to hear how his behaviour makes me feel and doesn’t want to discuss how he feels. I don’t think that is ever going to change. What is this? How do I live with it? Has anyone come to terms with having an extremely private partner? Is it some sort of psychological disorder? Please no ‘leave now’ comments, life is complicated and now is not the time to leave.

I'm a very private person. I don't like to share personal details with people. My DP isn't "people". If he's not willing to have a relationship with you then why is he in a relationship. Sounds like you and your kids would be better off without him.

He may very well be a private person, but he's also a fucking dick.

@CPL593H
I think rather than tie yourself in knots wondering why he's like this, you should concentrate on the effect it has on you. He's thinking entirely of himself I'm afraid and really, you should do the same. His priority is clearly (very clearly) him, make yours you.

….

Yes, you’re right. I just wish I could work out where he’s coming from, understand his behaviour and file it away. It’s the ‘weirdness’ of it that troubles me. I think not explaining myself or my feelings to him has been a good move although it makes me feel more distant from him.

I feel very much like your husband. I WANT to live a life where no one wants or needs anything from me. Not one where I have to set and hold boundaries. One where I don’t need them.

I feel like this because I have a history of poor respect for my boundaries and having a lot asked of asked of me and not much in return, and long, relentless stint of lone parenting. (To which I do NOT apply this principle. I give what my child needs as far as humanly possible.)

However I also recognise that it would be deeply, appallingly selfish to expect anything beyond a superficial friendship on those terms, and as a result, I don’t want a romantic relationship where I would have obligations to meet other people’s needs and consider their wants. As a grown woman, and not an entitled product of the patriarchy, I accept that that level of autonomy literally cannot exist in a healthy relationship, and I do not want a service human/sex object, because it’s entitled, unhealthy, immoral and toxic. And I’m not a complete dick.

Your husband IS asking a great deal of you - the greater part of parenting and housekeeping at least, and I bet a ton of emotional labour maintaining wider family relationships and sex as well. And yet you are not allowed to want things from him in return? That’s only partly applying his ‘I don’t ask things of you and you don’t ask things of me’ That’s not fair. He can’t have his cake and eat it.

Comsider whether you want this for your children. Growing up, they will use your relationship as the model for their own. Would you be happy with this for them? Because if it’s not good enough for them, its not good enough for you.

I know you said you can’t leave now, but I think this isn’t sustainable. The damage to yourself and your children is too great to bear. I would make plans to split, asap. Men, both individually and collectively have to learn that they need to put the effort (both emotional and work) into their families if they are going to keep them. I complete respect their right to be absolute arseholes if they want. But if they want families, they have to start being part of them and stop behaving like single teenage boys. You can’t have it both ways.

Hi OP.

So what happens if you head out very early one morning without saying anything and don't come back until midnight. He says he asks nothing of you after all, so he should be fine with this?

"Yes, you’re right. I just wish I could work out where he’s coming from, understand his behaviour and file it away."

Why would you want to do that?.

I would urge you not to spend any more of your years and life trying and failing to work him out. All you need to realise here is that he is doing this because he can and he feels entitled to act like he does. Do you not think that any of your children are at all affected; they certainly see your reactions, both spoken and unspoken, to him?.

^^This

OhI’m so sorry you don’t feel you’re able to share your feelings. That’s not how a relationship should work, it’s so important to feel heard and respected and it sounds like you have shut done doing that because of negative previous responses. My only advice would be to keep at it with the couples therapy, and hopefully he will be more open to working together other than keeping himself shut off. Sending hugs x

Then ask for examples.

Bet he can't provide any

Seriously, if you could, would you be gone?

'I ask you for nothing and you ask me for nothing’

That's not really how relationships work, though - and it's certainly not how yours is working, is it?

He isn't 'asking you for nothing' by going out all day and being 7 hours late leaving you with the kids - he's asking/ forcing you to look after the kids alone.

He is 'asking' for quite a lot from you whilst you get very little in return. Sounds extremely one sided and quite unpleasant.

His take on what he wants from our relationship is ‘I ask you for nothing and you ask me for nothing’.

Is that what you want from a relationship? From a husband? From the father of your children?

Replacing words in your thoughts isn't really going to help. All it does is pretend you're not angry. Calling him an arsehole at leasts admits you're angry, that this is not behaviour that you want. It stops you minimising and denying your own feelings. You are entitled to feel angry with him, his behaviour is cold and hurtful.

He doesn’t want to hear how his behaviour makes me feel and doesn’t want to discuss how he feels. I don’t think that is ever going to change.

Well, that's a good insight.

What is this?

Self-absorption is a very good word for it.

Are people normally able to not be interested in their partners feelings?

Sounds abnormal but that doesn't help because even if he does have a diagnosable condition such as a developmental delay, PDA etc then he isn't likely to own it or to take action to help you live with it. You'll still be on your own with it.

How do I live with it?

Do you want to live with it? I mean, if you had the choice?

it scared me that after years of having sex with him he either couldn’t tell if I was into it or me not being into it had no impact on his enjoyment.

Neither of those are good. But you recognise that it's not good, which is a start.

The therapist could give you some coping strategies but there's nothing that will really protect you from the long term effects of living with someone who doesn't respond appropriately to your feelings (or anyone else's by the sound of things)

there are various schools of psychology that promote the idea that you can only work on yourself and it’s unhealthy to rely on others (for example gestalt psychology). I’m not sure I buy it but plenty of people do.

Absolutely. You work on yourself by understanding that you can't change someone else and that you don't have to continue to like them or love them or live with them. But you may need to do a lot of work on yourself before you reach the stage where you can accept that. Where you can accept that your own needs are valid and you don't have to stay with someone who will never meet them. Whether he loves and respects you or not (which is rather questionable) sometimes love is not enough, you also need a partner who can act in a loving way, someone who can be close to you.

I just wish I could work out where he’s coming from, understand his behaviour and file it away.

It is often less painful to focus on "why is he like that" than "how does him being like that make me feel".

You don't get to be "private" about where you are and when you'll be back when you're a parent with a 50% responsibility to looking after your children. Would he be so respectful of your privacy if you went off in the morning and left the children with him and came back later that night?

His take on what he wants from our relationship is ‘I ask you for nothing and you ask me for nothing’.

What does that mean?

You both do/take what you want?

So you get up & go out Sunday-he goes out for his bike ride & the kids get left??

I just act the part of being okay with whatever he wanted and didn’t ask him for anything. I thought that if I pretended it was okay, maybe it would be

That is so awful for you and shows you are in an extremely unhealthy relationship. You are denying your needs and feelings and allowing yourself to be treated as robot. Please don't give up being you because you feel stuck with this man.

I don't know what is "wrong" with him and maybe you will never know. His lack of empathy and connection with his partner is suggestive of NPD or a psychopath. His need to control his environment could be due to a number of disorders, but realistically unless he agrees to brain scans and assessments by mental health professionals no one will know. What is known is that the chances of changing a man in his 40s is very low.

Firstly, counselling cannot cure a personality disorder. Science now shows the brain structures of those without empathy are different. Talking therapy can't change this - similar to colour blindness. He can't see what you see as a result his perception.

Many of us have been where you are and eventually for your own sanity you may need to leave.

His childhood was fine as far as I know. I’m not sure about my own boundaries. I certainly am prone to oversharing and being ‘emotional’ but I’m also aware of this and hopefully I’m not a total nightmare. I did realise that I felt very vulnerable sharing how I felt with him only for my feelings to be dismissed and for his feeling never to be shared. Consequently I’ve been careful not to share my feelings with him over the last couple of months but it feels lonely and empty. I should clarify that when I say ‘share my feelings’ it’s often logistical stuff like: ‘I didn’t like that you kept me and the kids waiting in the car for 40 minutes two days running, could you let us know you’re not ready to go next time’ or ‘could you not put the wooden spoons in the dishwasher because they keep splitting’, it’s nothing woo or high maintenance.

…
neither of you sound like you’re in touch with your feelings to be honest… the logistical examples you mentioned here aren’t feelings… sharing feelings would be more like:

• ‘when you keep me and the kids waiting I feel anxious/scared/worried’


• ’when you put the wooden spoons in the dishwasher I feel annoyed about having to buy replacements or worried about germs or annoyed that you haven’t taken on board the conversation we’ve already had about this’ - or whatever it is you’re feeling.

Look up a feelings wheel? Might help you articulate what you’re feeling with him and in general.

Also I know you said his childhood was okay but emotional neglect can seem pretty okay on the surface in that material needs were provided.

Im thinking there’s two options with him - either it’s some sort of pathological disorder but that would be really quite rare, or it’s developmental trauma, which counselling would help uncover. No doubt your counsellor is considering this. When she says he’s ‘private’, she probably means that he conceals his feelings. We learn to conceal our feelings in childhood if there’s reasons we learn that it’s scary to reveal them. So it could be an overbearing parent, or maybe the parent had unresolved trauma and taught the child that they couldn’t share else the parent would be overwhelmed (very scary for a small child as an overwhelmed parent means the child potentially not getting survival/attachment needs met).

Look up developmental trauma, childhood emotional neglect etc on Google - plenty of resources online - likely your counsellor will discuss to rule all of this out before considering a personality disorder.

He sounds absolutely awful. And he will never see your point of view.

How old are your older dc's? Do they live with you? What is life like for them at the moment?

I am a very private person, but I don’t behave like this.

My husband often doesn’t tell me what time he’ll be back, but that’s because he doesn’t want to be told what to do, or be held accountable if he’s late. Ie if he doesn’t commit to a time, he can’t be late.

It sounds like your DP wants full autonomy.He lives his life exactly how he wants, moment by moment without making the normal adjustments you make for other people. He sounds rigid and selfish.

There is a view that our feelings are the result of the thoughts we have, and not due to the actions of others. Eg, if a stranger is rude, we can choose whether to get upset or decide it’s not worth it. Him telling you that you waiting 7 hours for him is your choice whether you get upset or not, is just him worming out of taking responsibility.

He may be a private person, but your examples are just him being an arsehole.

Have you tried doing the same to him? Disappearing for hours and not telling him where you’ve been? How would he take it?

Jesus christ
How on earth have you stayed in a relationship and had 2 kids into it when he's so clearly abusive?

You need to leave. For their sake

He's not asking for nothing though. He's paying for his freedom with your labour. He can fuck off for hours on end as you pick up the slack.

As PPs have said, stop trying yourself in knots trying to explain his behaviour. He treats you with contempt - it doesn't matter why. He's not going to change. So this is it unless you leave.

Terrorists are very private people. He's probably not part of a sleeper cell though. It's far more likely he's a weird arsehole.

In the couples counselling session you had on your own because he couldn't make it, did he communicate that before the session? Or did he just not turn up? Amazing, given all you've said about the way he operates, that he was willing to commit his time to regular sessions.

Which parts of your relationship with him do you enjoy?

I ask you for nothing and you ask me for nothing

l can’t get past this! How is this a relationship? Are you just fwb, but without the friends, just the sex bit?

He sounds abusive to me, and an arrogant self entitled aresehole.

What is so complicated in your life that you can’t leave him?

Finances, childcare?

The sex stuff shows he knows exactly what he’s doing: getting as much out of life on his own terms and fuck everyone else.

He has no past relationships because he’s a sociopath, I suspect other women twigged and a mile.

And what you wrote about sex is so very sad 🙁. I found it hard to read thinking you had to suffer through this. Please don't have sex with this vile person.