How do I live with a very private partner?

[Franklyfrost]

I’ve been going to couples therapy and recently had a session where my partner couldn’t turn up. In this session the therapist pointed out that my dp was extremely private. I’ve realised that she’s right.

The main problem we were having is that I would feel unhappy about something, communicate this to dp and he would say the problem was not what I thought it was but my reaction to it. For example, he turned up 7 hours late from a bike ride with friends without letting me know. This left me looking after the kids all Sunday long. The problem for him is me taking issue with this rather than his failure to inform me of his change of plans. His take on what he wants from our relationship is ‘I ask you for nothing and you ask me for nothing’.

I’m interested in replacing the word ‘a-hole’ with the word ‘private’ in my thoughts about dp. With the bike ride example he would find it intrusive to have to tell me he’d be home later, he never tells me where he’s going when he goes out or when he’ll be home from work, he never communicates how he feels, yesterday he took offence at the insurance company asking why he didn’t want to renew his policy (he refused to answer even if the poor call handler just needed to tick a box), also yesterday he was outraged that his father asked him to bring a very minor, valueless item he needed for a repair when he was going round to visit his parents because it was an imposition on his autonomy.

He is intensely, perhaps pathologically, private. He doesn’t want to hear how his behaviour makes me feel and doesn’t want to discuss how he feels. I don’t think that is ever going to change. What is this? How do I live with it? Has anyone come to terms with having an extremely private partner? Is it some sort of psychological disorder? Please no ‘leave now’ comments, life is complicated and now is not the time to leave.

Also this it is rape. Raise your bar, your self esteem and your expectations.

are you not able to see that he is just a nasty, selfish dickhead?

What do you think is preventing you from seeing that?

what would he say in counselling if you said I cant love someone who shows me no love or respect. That day you were late and didn’t message- there was no respect for my time. I would never do that to you but you will always do that to me. It’s not a relationship, and in hindsight it never really was. I’m now here to improve my ability to cohabit with someone who doesn’t love me, because we have children together.

Even if he ignores this you do need to say it and keep repeating it. I have no idea how you can live with someone like him except to live as two strangers or lodgers. Do you have a spare room you could move into so you don't have to share with him?

For the short term, I'd suggest confiding in a good friend, someone who will listen and allow you to express your feelings. I'd ignore him and stay out of his way as much as possible and have times when you insist that he has the DC while you go out and get some headspace. Don't say when you will be back and take your time. He may "ask you for nothing" but he expects everything without communicating, so don't bother communicating with him.

Longer term, I'd make a plan to leave and your friend may be able to help you see past any blocks you think are there. I wouldn't bother trying to diagnose him or help him to help himself as he isn't going to and won't change. Just look at your financial situation and perhaps take legal advice to see how things would be if you did separate.

Good luck

I know all sorts of grim behaviour gets showcased on MN but this has really disturbed me for some reason. I couldn’t live like this OP. You deserve so much better. x

There are too many men like this and too many women who put up with it

This is not at all normal. Why on earth would you not think you deserve more.

Do you think he could be on the autistic spectrum?

He doesn't seem to gauge or empathise as to how his behaviour is affecting you.

He seems dispassionate, void of emotion.

If you don't communicate your plans to each other, how do you function as a family?

Could you use his example - say you're going shopping - he tinks you'll be out for an hour - but then stay out for 7 hours, like he did with cycling?

What would he do if you reversed some of these situations with the caveat that “you are not asking anything of him” ie. go out in the morning for “30 mins”, leave the kids with him return that eve. How would he respond? If everything he is saying really was acceptable he wouldnt be able to get annoyed with you.
I doubt either of you would be happy if you both acted like that to each other but maybe a taste of his own medicine might show him how unreasonable he is?

Stop finding reasons for his behaviour.

As you’ve pointed out yourself, he is not going to change.
So the question is do you think you can really live with someone like this for much longer?

OP, I think you need to take this all more seriously. In all my nearly 20 years on MN I have never read such a chilling description of a partner (other than physically abusive ones). He has a serious personality disorder I think.

I don't think you've responded to these really important questions from PPs:

1. What is he like with the children? People are asking because it seems impossible to most of us that they are not suffering terribly from being near this sociopath.
2. He asks nothing of you, to the degree that you could not turn up for 7 hours with no consequences? People are asking this because they know that would not be the case - he is lying and manipulating you to a sociopathic degree.

And one from me:

What was your own childhood like that you think any of this, one single bit of it, is acceptable in a partner?

He’s not “private” - that’s just a diplomatic crap word the therapist has come up with to draw your attention to his complete arseholery without telling it to you straight.

It strikes me that you have 2 choices.

1. To accept that this is how he is and find a way to live knowing that it's not a shared life you're having but put up with him how he is.

1. Walk away

I, for one, couldn't do number 1 - not being treated like his is doing - but I certainly don't think you're going to get him to change in any way. If you've been attending counselling and nothing has shifted then I can't see how you'll make any changes.

Also, consenting to sex is more than uttering the word yes!! Don't kid yourself, he was more than aware that you didn't really want to be doing it.

@Pipsquiggle Please do not bring autism into this. Autistic people get enough of a hard time without being stereotyped as emotionless and incapable of empathy.

Agree with previous posters who have suggested this is quite sinister behaviour. It is covert, controlling and selfishness disguised as something else - privacy/autonomy.

There is something fundamentally sick about it and your compliance is not doing anything other than validating it as a lifestyle choice. I couldn't do what you are doing. I would not tolerate such utter selfish, arrogance. Using your experiment to demand sex that you didn't want shows that he is perfectly in charge of his behaviour and is using it for his gain regardless of your feelings.

Privacy and secrecy are close friends - he is definitely secretive.
Autonomy and selfishness also have blurred edges - he is fully in the selfish camp.

He has just found softer words that 'nearly' mean what he is to confuse you. And he's succeeded - otherwise you wouldn't be posting here.

Please leave this miserable relationship

My teenager used to be like this - "why do you want to know that?" was a common catchphrase of his. He now knows that I'm not trying to be controlling when I ask stuff like what time he is likely to be back home. I might want to know because I might adjust dinner time or I might want to know because I'm a good parent who wants to knows he's home before I go to bed.

I have a relative like this. It's taken me years of trying to get through to the squishy center but i realized in the last year or so that it's not me. It's him. He's self centered and that's just the way it is. So I backed off. I wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with someone so selfish.

I think that your therapist was being very polite when she used the word private. It's fine to be private if you're single and childless but personally I would use words like paranoid and abusive. Abusive because he's trained you to think it's out of order to ask something basic like to tell you about a change a routine.

This absolutely.

This isn't being 'private', this is being staggeringly selfish and egocentric.

He cares only for himself and doesn't care about anyone else's feelings apart from his own. He has absolutely no consideration for others. Refusing to tell you when he's going or when he's coming back isn't him being 'private'. It is him telling you that he couldn't care less how inconvenient it is for you. You are simply not on his radar at all. He wants to do what he wants when he wants to do it. The world revolves around him. If anything, you are probably an inconvenience to him until such time as he wants you for something, and when he says 'jump' he expects you to ask 'how high?'.

I couldn't put up with it, sorry.

I think that couples counselling is a bad idea because the therapist won’t be allowed to say what she really thinks. Which will be that he is a psychopathic arsehole. I guess she’ll be trying to stay neutral and this just isn’t appropriate in this situation and could be leading you to think that your DH’s behaviour isn’t as awful as it is.

Maybe it would be better for you to have counselling on your own. He used your ‘surrendered wife’ act to virtually rape you and he just leaves you and the kids sitting in the car for forty minutes. You need to process all this and then work out a plan to leave even if it isn’t now because you can’t spend the rest of your life like this.

What would he do if you didn't tell him that you would be at X at a certain time or you came home with the kids 6 hours later than usual without saying something?

@Eeksteek
Eeksteek · Today 16:45
I feel very much like your husband. I WANT to live a life where no one wants or needs anything from me. Not one where I have to set and hold boundaries. One where I don’t need them.

I feel like this because I have a history of poor respect for my boundaries and having a lot asked of asked of me and not much in return, and long, relentless stint of lone parenting. (To which I do NOT apply this principle. I give what my child needs as far as humanly possible.)

However I also recognise that it would be deeply, appallingly selfish to expect anything beyond a superficial friendship on those terms, and as a result, I don’t want a romantic relationship where I would have obligations to meet other people’s needs and consider their wants. As a grown woman, and not an entitled product of the patriarchy, I accept that that level of autonomy literally cannot exist in a healthy relationship, and I do not want a service human/sex object, because it’s entitled, unhealthy, immoral and toxic. And I’m not a complete dick.

....

Thanks for sharing Your post resonated because I feel dp might have the similar wants to you but without your self awareness and with someone who wants to love them.

Tbh replacing 'arsehole' with 'private,' just sounds like a way of avoiding confronting the uncomfortable truth that he is in fact an arsehole.

He won’t do any projects together and I’m not allowed to touch anything that belongs to him.

Ok this is just nuts. He just sounds like a self-absorbed, self-important dickhead unsuitable for any kind of relationship, who has sonehow successfully managed to negotiate himself into a relationship where all his utterly unreasonable priorities and expectations are met.

How does he/would he respond if you were back from an activity 7 hours later than expected and hadn’t let him know? Not suggesting this in a tit for tat way, but rather to see if a) he might then realise how it affects others or b) it wouldn’t bother him at all. If a) then there’s somewhere to go with this, as it might facilitate change….

I am similar to your DH.

I really struggle with relationships as I cannot have a man telling me what I can do, where I can go and who I can see etc.
If I want to go to the shops or spend the entire day at the beach or at a casino or go abroad my friends - I will.
And I can’t have anyone telling me I’m not allowed to. I cannot cope with the feeling of being trapped.

I read too many times on here and hear it from my friends about their partners not letting them do something or they’ve got to ask their permission - which is literally my worst nightmare.
I never want to get married.

However, I’m a very nice and kind person and I would never be rude to others.

When a partner says to me that they have an issue with something then I apologise and reflect on my behaviour and I would want them to do the same.

I have a childhood of DV from my dad to my mum and my mum had MH issues and was very controlling to us kids, so I guess my behaviour as an adult is caused by my childhood trauma.
I also have autism.

It does sound like your DH is like me and there’s definitely something underlying there but I’d say most of his behaviour is simply him being a prick.

I would not act like your DH even though me and him are very similar.

He is married with children and the decent thing to do would be to text and say I’m going to be late home - that’s not being controlled it’s just about respecting your partner.

I think you allowed it at the beginning and he has such a great life that he has no reason to make any changes because you do everything he says.

He actually sounds quite narcissistic.

But you also have to take some responsibility here.
If you don’t set boundaries yourself and say what is and isn’t acceptable, then of course he’s going to continue doing it.

Have you ever thought about what would be the line that he crosses that would make you leave?

I feel like he knows you’ll never leave so just does whatever he wants.