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Original poster

Is it really so much to ask?

172 replies

PileOfTowels · 09/08/2022 07:27

I'm nearly 50.

I've never had a relationship last more than a few months because I won't tie myself up in knots trying to make myself OK with a man who doesn't make me happy.

I've been with someone for nearly a year - so he's lasted a longer than any of the others! - but I'm fast moving to the point of needing to end it because I don't feel 100% valued and respected. I'm going to speak with him when I see him next.

Is it me? Do I expect too much? Do other women tolerate much more? Where am I going wrong?

I know a relationship isn't the be all and end all but the vast majority people have at least one successful relationship behind them by my age.

OP posts:
Original poster
PileOfTowels · 09/08/2022 14:23

Because I generally treat people.well.and behave well in relationships 🤷🏻‍♀️

OP posts:
easylisten · 09/08/2022 14:25

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
PileOfTowels · 09/08/2022 14:27

PollysD · 09/08/2022 14:21

I don't know how useful my answer would be. My husband is very friendly and (very occasionally) women sometimes think that means something it doesn't. I think some woman are particularly flirty, but it doesn't bother me. It's just a part of life. I know in general he talks about me, makes it known that he's married etc, and he feels uncomfortable himself so avoids it when he can. I trust him. If someone got too blatant or took it too far, then that's not on my husband, I might get frustrated at the woman or I might tease him about it but it would get put aside, I prefer looking at the bigger picture. I don't see it as a reflection on me or my husband. If a woman excessively and inappropriately flirted then obviously she wouldn't be a friend to either of us but I can't say it would get in my head. I would be bothered if he was flirting back, or was being inappropriate himself. That would be my boundary. So far I've never had any concerns and I don't worry too much about what might happen. I'm late 40's and have been married for a long time so it is a different situation, I like my boundaries, they work for me. Your boundaries are different and you need to work out what works for you. It sounds like the entire situation has made a big impact on the relationship, that otherwise sounds good. I just think it is a bit of a shame.

Thank you for the reply. It is helpful.

I think if we'd been together for years when it happened, then I might feel differently. But she started it weeks into the relationship and it's been a feature of it ever since. Sometimes, it's been fine and she's stayed away when he's ignored her, sometimes she's ignored that fact and sought him out anyway. But that's the issue. It feels like it's all on her terms. Now, he's blindsided when it happens because he wasn't expecting it because he thinks avoiding her has sent a clear message when it hasn't. And I'm constantly on tenterhooks waiting to see if she'll do anything and how he responds.

If he'd just said something at the start....

OP posts:
Original poster
PileOfTowels · 09/08/2022 14:30

Googlecanthelpme · 09/08/2022 14:21

Having read your responses you do seem to have your head screwed on and your shit together OP.
The only thing I’d second from what PPs have said is about expecting from others based on what “I would do” - we can’t really base our expectations on behaviour on this because there are so many factors that Contribute to why someone acts or reacts the way they do. You could maybe set an baseline level of what you’d accept from a person in general but looking at life with the singular perspective of “this is what I’d do” would lead you to be disappointed a lot. Because no one else is you, we’re all different.

I don’t see anything wrong with cutting off the people who hurt or disappoint you. It makes sense, as long as you are sure you are also allowing people to make mistakes and Keane and grow. None of us are the finished article, I know for sure I really messed up in my relationship early on - not because I wanted to hurt anyone but because I was still learning - I still am learning. I’m grateful that my partner accepts my weaknesses and failings and I accept his. We talk them out, find compromise, learn lessons, do better next time.

Again, no one is the finished article and perhaps standards shouldn’t be lowered but tolerance and understanding/ acceptance of human nature and weaknesses could be increased.

Thank you and I agree with you. And of course I do give people the chance to learn and grow but not to the point where I'm sidelining my own needs.

No one is perfect. I'm certainly not. But I think being able to trust who you're with to stand up for you, have your back and 'protect' the relationship is pretty fundamental.

OP posts:
Original poster
PileOfTowels · 09/08/2022 14:34

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

I'm coming to the same conclusion, sadly.

I don't expect anything more of anyone else than I'm prepared to give myself and that goes for everything - people I manage at work, my friends, relationships.

OP posts:
Original poster
PileOfTowels · 09/08/2022 14:35

Thanks for all the responses. There have been some very succinct summaries I'm going to use rather than wandering around the houes for a while.

OP posts:
billy1966 · 09/08/2022 14:41

Pinkspice · 09/08/2022 12:36

The thing is though you're not asking him to change who he is. You're telling him where your boundaries are and what's acceptable to you. If you're not presenting it as an ultimatum, you're just giving him a chance to make his own mind up. There's a clarity in that but it's not controlling. If you don't make it very clear how you feel then you're expecting him to read your mind, which isn't very fair either.

I must admit I'd be very upset if someone dumped me when they hadn't been very explicit about how important certain things were to them in advance.

Another thing is that having that discussion might help him to start developing his own boundaries. I grew up in a family where you weren't allowed to have boundaries and learning to set them has important my life immeasurably. But it's also worth considering that sometimes boundaries can be too rigid, which can cause as many issues as those that are too lax.

Show quote history

OP, I think this is a fair and balanced post.

If you really like him, it is worth spelling out the difficulty you have in him opting out of having boundaries and how it impacts how you feel about him.

Watchkeys · 09/08/2022 14:42

I think the thing is, @PileOfTowels , you can make whatever decision you want, based on the information and experience you have now. But if you bump into the most marvelous man in the supermarket next week, and you get chatting because you both reach for the same box of cereal or something, everything changes. You can't conclude today that love won't fall in your lap next week. And every day that goes by when you haven't met the right man makes it more likely that today will be the day you will.

It's just numbers. The more people you meet, the more likely you are to meet someone you're compatible with.

Original poster
PileOfTowels · 09/08/2022 14:50

billy1966

Yes, I think it is too. I'm going to speak to him bit it needs to be the last conversation on the matter. Not that it's been talked about often. Probably 4 times in total.

Watchkeys

I think I've just got to the point of thinking that in over 30 years of dating I haven't come close to meeting someone worth giving up being single for until this man.

If you take away this one thing and how it's made me feel generally, I'd spend the rest of my life with him no question. It's not that I'm blaming him for something someone else chose to do, but that his way of dealing with it and the length of time he's allowed it to continue for has rocked the foundations of everything.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 09/08/2022 14:59

Are you upset about what he's done, or upset about the fact you've never met anyone suitable for a long time? It's hard to tell whether you're wondering whether to stay with him, or lamenting another one lost.

If you don't feel you can trust him any more, then it's over, but that doesn't mean anything about the big picture. You're still just as likely to end up in a happy relationship as you ever were.

Original poster
PileOfTowels · 09/08/2022 15:05

Watchkeys · 09/08/2022 14:59

Are you upset about what he's done, or upset about the fact you've never met anyone suitable for a long time? It's hard to tell whether you're wondering whether to stay with him, or lamenting another one lost.

If you don't feel you can trust him any more, then it's over, but that doesn't mean anything about the big picture. You're still just as likely to end up in a happy relationship as you ever were.

Both really.

I don't want to end things. That's not to say I won't. Better alone than badly accompanied and all that. But, after this thread, I will speak with him one more time so he knows what is at stake and make my decision based upon his response. I don't feel I can trust him, no. Maybe that will change after a conversation. I don't know.

But also that I've never met anyone suitable. I did and then it still hasn't been what I needed it to be.

It all feels a but futile. At my age, and with the available pool dwindling and a bit dank, why would I think there'd be someone more suitable round the corner?

I'm not sure I'd actually want to put myself through it again.

Other than this, he's everything I've ever wanted and I've never found that before. I'm not so foolish as to think I'd find it again.

OP posts:
Staynow · 09/08/2022 15:07

You say you don't want any drama and it seems your OH doesn't either - and his way of ensuring that is to not engage with nonsense. It's not his fault this woman is hitting on him and there's nothing wrong with choosing to ignore her behaviour. You say you're fine with other people finding him attractive and chatting to him, so what's the difference here? It's not his fault that she chose to contact you, he couldn't have predicted that was going to happen. It sounds quite controlling to me that you expect him to behave in the ways you see fit and deal with things in exactly the way you would - even if you do label it as 'having your back'. He can have you back in a quiet, non confrontational way too, it doesn't mean he can't be trusted.

Having strong boundaries and high expectations is great, no one would blame you for not staying with an alcoholic, cheater, violent person etc but something still feels off here to me, you want someone perfect it seems to me and when they're not you have no problem cutting them out completely from the sounds of it - rather than trying to understand why for example, also the 'I like them till I don't' I don't know but you just seem to really despise this woman for some reason - but say you're fine with others behaving in a similar way.

I don't know it seems your thinking is quite black and white, good/bad, you think people should behave in the way you do and other ways are wrong, but you don't seem to be able to put yourself in their shoes and see why they might behave in different ways to you. You've never been successful in relationships. To me that's ticking possible boxes for ASD OP. I might be completely wrong but to me it feels like there's something going on here. Apologies if you're already diagnosed and my super sleuthing is totally irrelevant!

xJoyfulCalmWisdomx · 09/08/2022 15:08

Z

PetalParty · 09/08/2022 15:14

Staynow · 09/08/2022 15:07

You say you don't want any drama and it seems your OH doesn't either - and his way of ensuring that is to not engage with nonsense. It's not his fault this woman is hitting on him and there's nothing wrong with choosing to ignore her behaviour. You say you're fine with other people finding him attractive and chatting to him, so what's the difference here? It's not his fault that she chose to contact you, he couldn't have predicted that was going to happen. It sounds quite controlling to me that you expect him to behave in the ways you see fit and deal with things in exactly the way you would - even if you do label it as 'having your back'. He can have you back in a quiet, non confrontational way too, it doesn't mean he can't be trusted.

Having strong boundaries and high expectations is great, no one would blame you for not staying with an alcoholic, cheater, violent person etc but something still feels off here to me, you want someone perfect it seems to me and when they're not you have no problem cutting them out completely from the sounds of it - rather than trying to understand why for example, also the 'I like them till I don't' I don't know but you just seem to really despise this woman for some reason - but say you're fine with others behaving in a similar way.

I don't know it seems your thinking is quite black and white, good/bad, you think people should behave in the way you do and other ways are wrong, but you don't seem to be able to put yourself in their shoes and see why they might behave in different ways to you. You've never been successful in relationships. To me that's ticking possible boxes for ASD OP. I might be completely wrong but to me it feels like there's something going on here. Apologies if you're already diagnosed and my super sleuthing is totally irrelevant!

ASD did occur to me, too. The rigidity and the inability to see grey areas.
However, it takes far more than that to diagnose someone.

70billionthnamechange · 09/08/2022 15:17

Soproudoflionesses · 09/08/2022 08:10

Actually OP l think it is a shame there aren't more people like you.
I am all for a bit of compromise but not to tue point where you make yourself miserable.

Agreed

Ilovemycat1 · 09/08/2022 15:28

Staynow · 09/08/2022 15:07

You say you don't want any drama and it seems your OH doesn't either - and his way of ensuring that is to not engage with nonsense. It's not his fault this woman is hitting on him and there's nothing wrong with choosing to ignore her behaviour. You say you're fine with other people finding him attractive and chatting to him, so what's the difference here? It's not his fault that she chose to contact you, he couldn't have predicted that was going to happen. It sounds quite controlling to me that you expect him to behave in the ways you see fit and deal with things in exactly the way you would - even if you do label it as 'having your back'. He can have you back in a quiet, non confrontational way too, it doesn't mean he can't be trusted.

Having strong boundaries and high expectations is great, no one would blame you for not staying with an alcoholic, cheater, violent person etc but something still feels off here to me, you want someone perfect it seems to me and when they're not you have no problem cutting them out completely from the sounds of it - rather than trying to understand why for example, also the 'I like them till I don't' I don't know but you just seem to really despise this woman for some reason - but say you're fine with others behaving in a similar way.

I don't know it seems your thinking is quite black and white, good/bad, you think people should behave in the way you do and other ways are wrong, but you don't seem to be able to put yourself in their shoes and see why they might behave in different ways to you. You've never been successful in relationships. To me that's ticking possible boxes for ASD OP. I might be completely wrong but to me it feels like there's something going on here. Apologies if you're already diagnosed and my super sleuthing is totally irrelevant!

Try and find a man looking for 'why' instead of ghosting, cheating or dumping here.

Men are ruthless during dating as they have been socialised to over estimate their worth

OP is merely an example of one woman out of a thousand who has a slight smidge of their confidence

Original poster
PileOfTowels · 09/08/2022 15:28

Already diagnosed.

But I don't like to mention it because I want to see what people's genuine responses are without that added factor.

I am aware of it so I only told him twice that his approach wouldn't work if it had, that would have been fine but it didn't. Which adds to the anxiety. I know he wouldn't do anything and I know what he thinks of her generally but it's the chaos of it that I struggle with.

But it's also what contributes to the feelings of uncertainty, being on tenterhooks and anxiety around it. The unpredictability of it all - sometimes she does it and sometimes she doesn't makes it harder.

I do tend to think in absolutes. So someone can be trusted or they can't. Because if I don't feel I can, then I can't. It is or it isn't.

So I don't mention asd and then see what people's responses are to understand where the grey areas might be. But i still can't always see it. I read some replies and they just don't make sense. Obviously, I understand then words! But I can't make sense of the content and wonder how anyone can live like that.

OP posts:
Original poster
PileOfTowels · 09/08/2022 15:30

Men are ruthless during dating as they have been socialised to over estimate their worth

One of the things I like about him is that he isn't like that.

He's very different to anyone else I've dated.

OP posts:
PetalParty · 09/08/2022 15:38

What led to the diagnosis, if that’s not too personal to ask?
I have seen friends of friends who end up settling very happily with another ASD spouse. Takes one to understand one! Far less hurt feelings, too… but, of course, it was the other interests that brought them together initially, rather than ASD.

I’m very comfortable with people with ASD, in fact I find them relaxing. There is less confusion and I enjoy the directness.

ticktickticktickBOOM · 09/08/2022 15:43

Maybe I expect too much but I don't see how I could accept any less.

Love this as a guote ^

I also think you should repeat the paragraph below to him in 1st person context and give him once last crack at being your man for life:

I've just got to the point of thinking that in over 30 years of dating I haven't come close to meeting someone worth giving up being single for until this man.

If you take away this one thing and how it's made me feel generally, I'd spend the rest of my life with him no question. It's not that I'm blaming him for something someone else chose to do, but that his way of dealing with it and the length of time he's allowed it to continue for has rocked the foundations of everything.

ticktickticktickBOOM · 09/08/2022 15:44

Quote even

Cheminaufaules · 09/08/2022 15:46

A thoroughly interesting thread @PileOfTowels as I have exactly the same outlook as you. And if I do, that means that there are men out there who also have the same outlook. I am sure they are few in number but, no, you aren't asking too much.
I like your logical approach to life.

DillonPanthersTexas · 09/08/2022 15:48

Men are ruthless during dating as they have been socialised to over estimate their worth

I think it is less about 'over estimating their worth' and more likely a case of them being more willing to try their luck despite knowing their shortcomings. Even with the prevalence of online dating there is still many women who expect the guy to make the first move/message Most men I know have been knocked back and had their advances rejected numerous times so have developed a pretty thick skin. They also know that just waiting there and expecting a woman to approach them for a date will severely narrow their options.

Watchkeys · 09/08/2022 15:49

At my age, and with the available pool dwindling and a bit dank, why would I think there'd be someone more suitable round the corner

Because your age and the state of the dating pool are irrelevant to your likelihood of success, as is your experience. Anybody, any age, in any circumstances (almost) might meet somebody any time. You don't need a healthy dating pool, you just want one person. You don't need to be a certain age; people fall in love right through their adulthood. Your personal experience doesn't change tomorrow.

I think the pool isn't dwindling either. People get divorced all the time. It's probably getting bigger when people get past the 'I can't leave, we've got 2 under 10!' age.

Original poster
PileOfTowels · 09/08/2022 15:54

PetalParty · 09/08/2022 15:38

What led to the diagnosis, if that’s not too personal to ask?
I have seen friends of friends who end up settling very happily with another ASD spouse. Takes one to understand one! Far less hurt feelings, too… but, of course, it was the other interests that brought them together initially, rather than ASD.

I’m very comfortable with people with ASD, in fact I find them relaxing. There is less confusion and I enjoy the directness.

Not too personal. A few reasons. I went to my GP with a list of everything that had gone wrong in my life - crap relationships, few friends despite doing all the things I'd read a good friend should do, masters level education and unable to cope with a full time permanent job, house an utter tip no matter how much I tried to stay on top of it, behind with life admin, just drowning really. Feeling like i was screaming into a void a lot of the time trying to make myself understood and not understanding others. Feeling like I was out of kilter with the rest of the world. Always felt more comfortable with boys/men and people much older than me than girls/women the same age. I think that's because I didn't expect to see the world the way they did so it didn't matter that I didn't. And i do find men to be more direct. There are fewer (none) of the 'social dances' that women seem to engage in. And less backstabbing.

My GP referred me for an assessment but I just couldn't get myself there.

Then I met a lot of adults who were autistic through various avenues and found that we gravitated towards each other. A few of them suggested it too so I went back to the GP and for the assessment.

No one has ever been as tolerant of my quirks as my boyfriend is and, before he knew, when he listed the things he loved about me, many of them were autistic traits.

He accepts me completely. I don't think I'd find that again as much as anything.

OP posts:
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