Is it really so much to ask?

[PileOfTowels]

I'm nearly 50.

I've never had a relationship last more than a few months because I won't tie myself up in knots trying to make myself OK with a man who doesn't make me happy.

I've been with someone for nearly a year - so he's lasted a longer than any of the others! - but I'm fast moving to the point of needing to end it because I don't feel 100% valued and respected. I'm going to speak with him when I see him next.

Is it me? Do I expect too much? Do other women tolerate much more? Where am I going wrong?

I know a relationship isn't the be all and end all but the vast majority people have at least one successful relationship behind them by my age.

Op on the face of it your list of reasons for ending relationships is spot on. However, given what you’ve said about your current one (what you see as disrespectful enough to end, most see as fine) I do wonder about your definitions of the other things on your list.

being hypercritical, hitting on friends, unreliable, becoming different, lack of integrity. I wonder if you’re seeing those things where most are not?

housemaus

There were enough of us sitting round the table for it not be be hugely obvious and given everyone knows what she's been doing anyway, I doubt anyone was surprised. It's usual to only speak to the people you're sitting next to amd a couple of passing comments to others it was fine.

Tredofthemadness

Tbh, I don't think sending mixed messages was very kind. I think hebshould just have said, "Don't do that," when she started
Shed have stopped and all of this unpleasantness now could have been avoided. Instead of hoping she'd leave him alone, walking away when she came near, and jumping whenever I touched him in case it was her. She made an utter fool of herself and people were laughing at her behind her back because of it. That's not very kind either.

Watchkeys

It just makes me feel sad tbh. Sad that there are so few people who are able to show respect and so few who expect it. I'd imagine there are things I'm willing to compromise on that others would though so it's swings and roundabouts really.

He says that he loves me. I believe him but I also think his previous partners have maybe tolerated more than I am prepared to.

I met his ex wife a few weeks ago. She couldn't speak more highly of him and I know she'd get back with him in a heartbeat if he'd have her. I suspect she very much regrets letting him go. But this is such a sticking point for me. If I don't respect myself, how is anyone else going to?

Pyewhacket

There are no other failings. Not as far as I'm concerned. He's perfect for me in every other way.

Ilovemycat1

No, there aren't. It's nice to know you're out there too!!

I'm not an intolerant person but there are things I won't tolerate and disrespect is a big one for me. I don't care what job someone does, the size of their house, bank balance/salary, where they holiday, what they eat, their level of education or anything. But I do expect to be treated with respect and for them to treat others with respect.

It was said on another post that first answer is typically the judgey over too one. But this is spot on

I just know that, if the situation had been reversed, I'd have handled it very differently and a lot sooner.

I think this is an interesting comment, he is not you, and are you are not him, different people will handle the same situation, in their own way, I do a bit of skills teaching and see this all quite often, when a pupil will ask what they should do in X situation, the answer is always “it depends “, , what I might do would be different to what the next person might do.

It just makes me feel sad tbh

Yup. I felt like that. But it makes you all the happier when you do meet a gem!

That's a fair point.

The hypercritical men - things like they were embarrassed I drank pints and implied I wasn't feminine enough; one refused to buy me ale in a pub because he was embarrassed, another would joke with the barmen about dating a bloke 🙄; crticial of my appearance - not pretty enough or they expected me to be slimmer than I was (size 10/12), to wear pretty dresses, heels, strappy sandals and make up. You'd only need to take one look at me to know I'm never going to dress like that - I live in DMs!; would make comments about other women when we were out that weren't 'neutral' she looks nice but we're intended to make me feel shit about myself. No man is going to make feel shit about myself. One threw my books away because he didn't like what they were, another accidentally damaged my records because he didn't like the music I listened to.

Becoming different - things like starting off as kind, considerate and thoughtful but then moved to ignoring me on nights out, not confirming plans until the last minute, no longer paying their way, sexist/racist/homophones comments, chatting up other women when we were out, deliberately criticising what I was wearing just as we were arriving somewhere...

Unreliable - saying they'd do stuff and then ot doing, reassuring me that they would take care of something and not doing which caused problems for me without apology or explanation. Not one offs. I have a mental 3 strikes and you're out in the early stages of a relationship. Sometimes, I'm flexible on that. I know life happens but just the disregard.

OP
You sound entirely reasonable to me.

Respect is hugely important in a relationship and for oneself.

If he respected himself and you he would have shut this down.

He didn't.
He doesn't respect what you have together enough.

In this scenario I would lose respect for him, which would be the death knell for the relationship.

He has put himself ahead of being respectful of you and what you share.

Not someone to depend on IMO.

The important part for me is where are you placing your loyalty?

Of course there are different ways of responding to anything but if someone tried it on with me, knowing I had a boyfriend, my loyalty would be to my boyfriend, who may be oblivious and would definitely be powerless in responding to that situation. I'd not be rude about it but I wouldn't care if I made someone feel awkward or embarrassed in that scenario. I'd be unambiguous in response.

He wasn't because his loyalty didn't lie with me. He didn't want to make her feel awkward or uncomfortable and so allowed me to instead. He did apologise for that and said it hadn't been his intention but he can see its what happened.

Sadly, I think you've summed it up really well.

He isn't any more comfortable with her feeling awkward and uncomfortable now.

I did point out to him that, if you behave like a dick and someone calls you out on it and it makes you uncomfortable then that's the price you pay for behaving like a dick. It wasn't fair at all that I ended up feeling awkward and uncomfortable because I did nothing wrong. He agreed with all of that.

But I'm just not certain that, if I wasn't there, he wouldn't default to not allowing her to feel awkward and uncomfortable which just makes a mockery of everything he's said to me about it, the responses he gave to me talking about it, and the really unpleasant situation I had to deal with in being the one who had to speak to her about it. And everything we have.

It leaves me with the question of just exactly how far would he allow things to go if he won't put a boundary in place and doesn't want to make someone feel awkward? He knows he can trust me fully to protect him emotionally. I'm not sure I can say the same.

Sadly.

I’m fully on your side here @PileOfTowels. i too would be disappointed if I was in your position and he wouldn’t take a firm stance against the flirter. I totally get what you mean about disrespect, he’s choosing being passive and taking the easy route rather than standing up for you and what’s right. That would really put me off someone.

like you I only want a relationship that enhances my life - I’m not interested in making loads of compromises or changing how I live or having to overlook things that annoy me. Luckily I’ve met someone who’s very similar to me on a lot of fronts and fits in great with my life but if that hadn’t happened or we break up I’d rather be single than fall over myself compromising, my needs come first always.

The sad thing is that we are very compatible in every other way. And he never criticises me, we've never argued (not because thing sort get addressed but because there's been nothing to argue about). We haven't even argued about this. Just talked. He does loads for me - he says he knows I can do things myself but he likes to lighten the load. We laugh all the time. He gets on with my friends and they like him. He doesn't get jealous.

I'm not selfish, I aim together his needs asuch as I expected him to meet mine and everything has been good otherwise.

But this feels so huge that I don't know if I can, or should or even want to get past it. It feels like it's rocked the very foundations of the relationship.

I had no doubts about him. Didn't worry if he went out without me, just nothing. But this has changed all of that and I'm just really sad about it.

I admire your strength and principles.

I would just be aware and cautious in the future not to veer into controlling/jealous/possessive territory, or what could have the appearance thereof.

It’s possible for a partner to squash these kinds of things without going in hammer and tongs, there is more than one way to skin a cat, especially if a way involves far less mess. It may take longer for the message to get through, but the result would be the same and far less painful.

He sounds like a wonderful person. Congratulations on a good find! They are kind of thin on the ground!

It’s possible for a partner to squash these kinds of things without going in hammer and tongs, there is more than one way to skin a cat, especially if a way involves far less mess. It may take longer for the message to get through, but the result would be the same and far less painful

Do you mean in terms of this woman?

If so, yes, I can see that but it's the loya)ty/trust/respect part of it.

I don't know howuch damage in the long term a sustained period 9f feeling like he wasn't on my side would do.

He's not the sort of man most women would flock towards but he does have a very distinctive style amd is confident/comfortable with who he is - which is very attractive. He's attentive and kind and makes people feel important. He's also a good conversationalist. I'm 12 years younger than him and objectively 'better looking' but he gets approached/chatted up far more often than I do when we're out!

A few weeks ago a woman was blatantly staring at him. She kept trying to get close to him.but he moved away and didn't entertain it at all. Last week we went out and we ended up chatting to a woman who was quite clearly very 'taken' with him. She was the same age as him and they ended up talking about stuff they remembered from childhood so I went and spoke to friends. That doesn't bother me - I'm not jealous and he wasn't flirting. He doesn't. But it does make me wonder how far he'd allow things to go if I wasn't there in the interests of not making someone feel uncomfortable. A hug? A peck on the cheek goodbye at the end of the night? Not a problem. Someone getting a bit handsy? A snog..?

I think when you say 'I would have handled it differently' you mean 'I would have handled it properly. He is wrong'.

That isn't fair on him. You have different ways of doing things. He is allowed to do things differently to you. Having a different style doesn't mean he is 'disprespecting' you. It sounds dangerously close to 'he didn't obey me, that's disrespecful'.

It doesn't sound like you respect the way he wants to deal with it, and this situation was after all centred on him. You should be taking his lead.

You have every right to cut this woman out of your life altogether. He has every right not to want to. In his situation, once I was happy that she knew my position on it, I would go back to 'civil, polite but not matey'. Ignoring her outright is a bit childish, uncomfortable for everyone else, and just lets her know she is bothering you. It sends a much stronger message to her if you just treat her as irrelevant, rather than someone who still has the power to upset or anger you.

It may be that your OH would rather move on and not let her have any more power in his life, and go back to enjoying his nights out without feeling on edge.

I think when you say 'I would have handled it differently' you mean 'I would have handled it properly. He is wrong

It doesn't look to me like OP is saying this. You're right, everybody is different. So all couples need to find their own dealbreakers and boundaries. OP isn't saying he was wrong and she is right, but that she didn't like the way he did it. Everybody has their preferences.

You say that this woman made made "an utter fool of herself" and people were "laughing at her behind her back..."
This sounds rather cruel and you should be pleased that your boyfriend wasn't among them.
In fact, it sounds like people gravitate towards your partner because they get that very rare feeling that they are in the presence of a good person. You feel and appreciate his goodness too.
But your need to be 'respected' means that he has to make this (admittedly annoying) woman's humiliation complete.
If he did that, he wouldn't be the man that you love.
Can you see the contradiction?

The thing is, the higher or more rigid your standards, the rarer it will be for someone to meet them - either off the bat or as time goes on.

I think your first list of reasons you've left relationships was eminently reasonable.

I don't think your scenario with your current guy is anywhere near a dumping offence but that's just me - I don't give a hoot about other women flirting with my partner and I recognise that people deal with unwanted flirting in different ways - as long as my partner isn't actually going to cheat, I don't think it's up to me to tell him he's responding in the wrong way.

That's just me, and from reading this thread it's not an unusual position - however I understand why you don't like it and that's entirely your prerogative. I think we probably all have hard red lines that other people would shrug at - and would all shrug at others' red lines.

I'm not going to disagree with anything you've said. I'm sure that is what he wants. I'm just not ready not ready that yet. Maybe I will get to that point. Maybe I won't.

I wasn't ignoring her to make a point just because, at the moment, I can barely tolerate being in the same space as her.

The way that he dealt with it in such a 'subtle' way that she wasn't really picking up on it. Or at least, she'd got that she was being avoided but not why. The night before she asked why, we'd been out and she walked over to him with outstretched arms for a hug and a sad look on her face. And ent in for a huge bear hug with her arms wrapped around him and her head on his chest. He obliged and patted her on the back because, what else could he do? A public rejection in front of everyone? If he'd addressed it months ago properly and privately or more discreetly, it wouldn't have happened.

He wouldn't have needed to do exactly what inwoupd have done, no, but he didn't shut it down at all which is why it continued. Avoiding her just gave her less opportunity. It didn't stop her.

Yes, he sounds very passive. And you sound very active indeed. This can be a good match, if you accept there are both positives and negatives in these opposite traits. Can’t have the rose without the thorn.

I’m recently accepting that myself. I’m very introverted and very sensitive and people wear me out. Right now, I don’t know that I even like very many people!

For now, I’ve decided the odd meeting out with a friend (no more partners), will satisfy my social needs. I don’t want anyone in my house disturbing my routine, nor do I want to be in someone else’s home and have to adapt to their routine.
Meeting for a limited amount of time, on neutral ground is enough for me.

My question is, do you like people in general? It’s perfectly okay to be too sensitive to deal with them. Human beings are so deeply flawed, including me most of all. Part of the reason I stay away is in order not to discomfort others.
Emotional, psychological, and physical messes are almost intolerable to me.

And I'm not being a dick. We all went away for the weekend after the conversation. I tagged her in a fb post along with everyone else.

When she put a post in the group chat about her new grandchild, I congratulated her - even though she introduced herself as a GILF 🙄. I just have no desire to spend any time in her company at all.

Honestly, I wish I had lived my life like you. I tolerated toxic, controlling friendships and had my life fucked over by an awful marriage. Because I believed in giving people chances, making excuses and ‘I’m not perfect either!’.

I also think you are right about your current bf.

Hold firm. You are living your life brilliantly well.

If he'd just said to her at the beginning, "Look, I don't know what's going on but I'm not comfortable with x,y,z and I'd like you to stop" Well that wouldn't have been humiliating and it would have stopped it.

Which is a lot more sensitive than my usual approach of, 'What are you doing? Fuck off and stop being a dick,"

It only got to the point where others noticed and commented because he didn't do that.

And it was worse because I ended up talking to her and, whilst I was sensitive, because it was incredibly awkward! Probably more embarrassing for her given that her response was to deny it and shout at me.

I like people until I don't...

But I'm very much like you. I don't have people in my home very often and prefer to met up on neutral ground.

I find it exhausting to be around people for too long with the exception of my boyfriend and 2 friends. I've told my boyfriend that spending time with him is like being on my own. Which he took as the compliment it was intended to be! 😁

I did too until indecided I wasn't going to anymore.

Always making excuses and looking for the good. Now I fully believe in 'when someone shows you who they are believe them' and it hasn't let me down yet. Which is good and bad.

Hold firm. You are living your life brilliantly well.

It's also sad and lonely.

I don't cut people off for minor transgressions, we're all only human, but if someone makes me feel ill at ease or disturbs my peace of mind, I can't tolerate it anymore.